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The Blessed Virgin St. Mary the Mother of God.

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RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
…Also, it should go without saying, to ignore the Blessed Virgin Mary makes no sense. Without her our Christology is shot. Without her our understanding of sin and grace is incomplete. Without her we cannot call ourselves part of the Body of Christ. This woman is our Mother, commended to the Church by our Lord Himself. And to ignore her is something no Christian should ever do. ….
How about an application of parallel usage to illustrate the points being made. According to the thesis, to be consistent, this is how that should have been expressed:

Also, it should go without saying, to ignore the Blessed Virgin Mary makes no sense. Without her our God-ology is shot. Without her our understanding of sin and grace is incomplete. Without her we cannot call ourselves part of the Body of God. This woman is our Mother, commended to the Church by God Himself. And to ignore her is something no God-ian should ever do.
Maybe there's still time to make the edits. :Wink
 

Berserk

Member
To deny that Mary is the mother of God is to deny that Mary is the mother of God incarnate, which is to deny either the virgin birth or the divinity of Jesus.
 

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
To deny that Mary is the mother of God is to deny that Mary is the mother of God incarnate, which is to deny either the virgin birth or the divinity of Jesus.

So explain how Mary is the mother of God the Father and the Holy Spirit. That is what you claim by calling her mother of God.

Jesus is God - so is the Father and the Spirit.

You are making her the mother of all three.
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Is the Blessed Virgin St. Mary the Mother of God?
No. She is the mother of Jesus, the Messiah (Christ).

Why do so many protestants take issue with referring to the blessed virgin St. Mary mother of God?
I take issue because it is an absurd claim.
God is eternal, so He always existed.
For Mary to give birth to God, there would have to have been a time when Mary existed but God did not. Then Mary gave birth and God came into being. Nobody believes that silly creation tale, so claiming Mary as the mother of God is preposterous.

God created Mary. Mary did not create God.
That is why Christians have a problem with a Mary-centric pantheon described by the flawed phrase “Mary the mother of God”.
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
So, Jesus was not God? Interesting!
Jesus is not the triune Godhead all by himself and Mary is not the mother of God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Since God the Son existed before the incarnation (see Gospel of John chapter 1), there is a sense in which Mary is not even the “mother” (origin) of God the Son, but merely the Virgin chosen by God the Spirit to incarnate the Christ.

That makes her “blessed” (happy, fortunate, to be envied), but it does not elevate her to any god-like or demigod-like status worthy of worship as a fourth ‘person’ of the Trinity. It is important not to conflate the fact that people are people and God is God and the two are fundamentally different.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Not every Baptist takes issue with calling Mary, the blessed mother. As we read in the Magnificat: “from now on all generations will call me blessed.”

There should be no debate on this issue.

I will reiterate, to deny that Mary is the Mother of God – that she is instead merely the Mother of Christ, or “Christotokos” – is to deny the true union of the divine and human natures in Christ. In other words, to deny the orthodox doctrine of the Incarnation.

For Mary not to be mother of God, she must either: 1) Not be our Lord’s mother (as might be confessed by Docetists), or 2) Jesus is not God (as confessed by the Arians. Both heresies are contrary to Scripture.

Also, it should go without saying, to ignore the Blessed Virgin Mary makes no sense. Without her our Christology is shot. Without her our understanding of sin and grace is incomplete. Without her we cannot call ourselves part of the Body of Christ. This woman is our Mother, commended to the Church by our Lord Himself. And to ignore her is something no Christian should ever do.

In typical fashion, Baptist/evangelicals lump her together with the other saints of the New Testament. But the Blessed Mother is nothing of the sort. She is no ordinary saint. She is the saint of saints. She is the Theotokos. The Blessed Mother is the example that all Christians should emulate. Her “Yes” to the angel Gabriel is an act of faith that sets the standard for all of the Church to follow. And yet when was the last time you heard a sermon, sat through a Bible Class, or read a Baptist Protestant commend the Blessed Virgin Mary as such?

I will say it again to deny that the blessed virgin Saint Mary is the mother of God - you are on dangerous grounds.

For those who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Mary does nothing but point people to her Son - Christ Jesus.

Strange things happens when you have a moment that is largely non-confessional, anti-creedal and anti-Catholic for the sake of being anti-Catholic. It keeps marching it down the road to the point where you are denying clear biblical teachings, such as calling the blessed virgin Mary the mother of God.

Again there are many Baptist, especially in the Reformed flavors, that do not have a problem referring to the blessed virgin St. Mary as the mother of God. Fact that I am even having this conversation is disturbing.

Even Zwingli (who resurrected Nestorianism) and Calvin would even dare go as far as many modern Baptist. Both upheld calling the blessed virgin St. Mary, the mother of God and her perpetual virginity (which is covered in another post).

She knew not Joseph, until after the birth of Jesus. Then Mary and Joseph got busy and had several children by normal sexual intercourse.
 

VDMA

Member
This is really, really a simple.

1) Jesus is God.
This can’t be denied.

2) Mary is Jesus’ mother.
This can’t be denied.

3) Mary is mother of God.
This can’t be denied.

Conclusion: Mary is mother of God, for Jesus is God!

The two natures are the one Christ, and the one Christ is the two natures.

Note: Some of the comments are ridiculous. As a confessional Lutheran I adhere to the Apostles creed, Nicene creed Athanasius creed.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Is the Blessed Virgin St. Mary the Mother of God? Yes.

Why do so many protestants take issue with referring to the blessed virgin St. Mary mother of God?

Serious question I see this all the time. especially coming from Baptist/Evangelicals.
She is not a perpetual virgin for one thing. She was blessed and the human she gave birth to, though 100% man, was also 100% God.
In the book of Hebrews we see both Jesus being God and also being man. Jesus faced every temptation and learned obedience as a human. Mary had to teach Jesus to not touch a hot pot and Joseph had to teach him how to work with tools and not harm himself.
 

VDMA

Member
John Cassian
“Now, you heretic, you say (whoever you are who deny that God was born of the Virgin), that Mary, the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, cannot be called the Mother of God, but the Mother only of Christ and not of God—for no one, you say, gives birth to one older than herself. And concerning this utterly stupid argument . . . let us prove by divine testimonies both that Christ is God and that Mary is the Mother of God” (On the Incarnation of Christ Against Nestorius 2:2 [A.D. 429]).

“You cannot then help admitting that the grace comes from God. It is God, then, who has given it. But it has been given by our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore the Lord Jesus Christ is God. But if he is God, as he certainly is, then she who bore God is the Mother of God” (ibid., 2:5).

Amen! Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum!

Just smoking out the Nestorians. Sadly, most will probably glaze the church fathers.

Lutheran and Catholics agree on Two natures of Christ, our Christology is identical, The two natures are the one Christ, and the one Christ is the two natures. Baptist don’t agree with Lutherans and Catholics on the Two natures of Christ, hence the reason they reject the real corporal presence in the eucharist, etc. That aside there is no exegetical reason why they should be rejecting the title the Blessed Virgin St. Mary the Mother of God.
 

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
1) Jesus is God.
This can’t be denied.

2) Mary is Jesus’ mother.
This can’t be denied.

3) Mary is mother of God.
This can’t be denied.

Conclusion: Mary is mother of God, for Jesus is God!

Your conclusion is invalid because your first variable is incomplete. You are connecting dots that cannot be connected.

Yes, Jesus IS God. But God is triune and the Father/Spirit are ALSO God of which Mary is NOT the mother of.the Father and the Spirit.

It would be like saying:
1. Jesse is a first grader.
2. Polly is the mother of Jesse.
3. Polly is the mother of the first grade class.

See. The first statement is incomplete as there are several other children who comprise that first grade class.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
How about an application of parallel usage to illustrate the points being made. According to the thesis, to be consistent, this is how that should have been expressed:

Also, it should go without saying, to ignore the Blessed Virgin Mary makes no sense. Without her our God-ology is shot. Without her our understanding of sin and grace is incomplete. Without her we cannot call ourselves part of the Body of God. This woman is our Mother, commended to the Church by God Himself. And to ignore her is something no God-ian should ever do.
Maybe there's still time to make the edits. :Wink
Really, without Mary sin and grace is incomplete? Have you utterly failed to read the Old Testament?
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
In typical fashion, Baptist/evangelicals lump her together with the other saints of the New Testament. But the Blessed Mother is nothing of the sort. She is no ordinary saint. She is the saint of saints. She is the Theotokos.
Verse please.
I support ‘Sola Scriptura’ as the normative rule, so I would like some Biblical support for the claim that Mary is an UBER-Saint.

All I see is claims that Mary was ‘blessed’ (εὐλογημένη) …


[Luk 1:42 NASB95] 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed [are] you among women, and blessed [is] the fruit of your womb!
[Eph 1:3 NASB95] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ,

… and she is not alone: the God and Father of our Lord has ‘blessed’ (εὐλογήσας) us as He blessed her.
 

VDMA

Member
She is not a perpetual virgin for one thing. She was blessed and the human she gave birth to, though 100% man, was also 100% God.
In the book of Hebrews we see both Jesus being God and also being man. Jesus faced every temptation and learned obedience as a human. Mary had to teach Jesus to not touch a hot pot and Joseph had to teach him how to work with tools and not harm himself.

If you want to talk about the Semper Virgo, review the post I linked to and response there instead clogging this post up.
 

Berserk

Member
Mary is the mother of God incarnate and in this sense is not the mother of the pre-existent Trinity.
Remember that Jesus, having "emptied Himself' of all His divine prerogatives to become fully human, needed to receive the Holy Spirit at His baptism before He became capable of performing miracles. That is why His family was scandalized by His alleged messianic mIracle claims after His baptism.
 

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Lutheran and Catholics agree on Two natures of Christ, our Christology is identical, The two natures are the one Christ, and the one Christ is the two natures. Baptist don’t agree with Lutherans and Catholics on the Two natures of Christ, hence the reason they reject the real corporal presence in the eucharist, etc. That aside there is no exegetical reason why they should be rejecting the title the Blessed Virgin St. Mary the Mother of God.

Who existed before all things? God or Mary?
And if you're going to "reiterate" anything, be sure you have a sick sack handy.

Corporal presence in the eucharist ... if the wine literally becomes blood, it is forbidden to drink it by the apostles' decrees in Acts 15.
 
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