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The Blessed Virgin St. Mary the Mother of God.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by VDMA, Dec 9, 2021.

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  1. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    How about an application of parallel usage to illustrate the points being made. According to the thesis, to be consistent, this is how that should have been expressed:

    Also, it should go without saying, to ignore the Blessed Virgin Mary makes no sense. Without her our God-ology is shot. Without her our understanding of sin and grace is incomplete. Without her we cannot call ourselves part of the Body of God. This woman is our Mother, commended to the Church by God Himself. And to ignore her is something no God-ian should ever do.
    ​
    Maybe there's still time to make the edits. :Wink
     
    #21 RighteousnessTemperance&, Dec 9, 2021
  2. Berserk

    Berserk Member

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    To deny that Mary is the mother of God is to deny that Mary is the mother of God incarnate, which is to deny either the virgin birth or the divinity of Jesus.
     
    #22 Berserk, Dec 9, 2021
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    So explain how Mary is the mother of God the Father and the Holy Spirit. That is what you claim by calling her mother of God.

    Jesus is God - so is the Father and the Spirit.

    You are making her the mother of all three.
     
    #23 Scarlett O., Dec 9, 2021
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  4. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    No. She is the mother of Jesus, the Messiah (Christ).

    I take issue because it is an absurd claim.
    God is eternal, so He always existed.
    For Mary to give birth to God, there would have to have been a time when Mary existed but God did not. Then Mary gave birth and God came into being. Nobody believes that silly creation tale, so claiming Mary as the mother of God is preposterous.

    God created Mary. Mary did not create God.
    That is why Christians have a problem with a Mary-centric pantheon described by the flawed phrase “Mary the mother of God”.
     
    #24 atpollard, Dec 9, 2021
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  5. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is not the triune Godhead all by himself and Mary is not the mother of God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

    Since God the Son existed before the incarnation (see Gospel of John chapter 1), there is a sense in which Mary is not even the “mother” (origin) of God the Son, but merely the Virgin chosen by God the Spirit to incarnate the Christ.

    That makes her “blessed” (happy, fortunate, to be envied), but it does not elevate her to any god-like or demigod-like status worthy of worship as a fourth ‘person’ of the Trinity. It is important not to conflate the fact that people are people and God is God and the two are fundamentally different.
     
    #25 atpollard, Dec 9, 2021
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  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    She knew not Joseph, until after the birth of Jesus. Then Mary and Joseph got busy and had several children by normal sexual intercourse.
     
    #26 Iconoclast, Dec 9, 2021
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  7. VDMA

    VDMA Member

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    This is really, really a simple.

    1) Jesus is God.
    This can’t be denied.

    2) Mary is Jesus’ mother.
    This can’t be denied.

    3) Mary is mother of God.
    This can’t be denied.

    Conclusion: Mary is mother of God, for Jesus is God!

    The two natures are the one Christ, and the one Christ is the two natures.

    Note: Some of the comments are ridiculous. As a confessional Lutheran I adhere to the Apostles creed, Nicene creed Athanasius creed.
     
    #27 VDMA, Dec 9, 2021
  8. VDMA

    VDMA Member

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    This is addressed in another post.

    Mary always a virgin?
     
    #28 VDMA, Dec 9, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    She is not a perpetual virgin for one thing. She was blessed and the human she gave birth to, though 100% man, was also 100% God.
    In the book of Hebrews we see both Jesus being God and also being man. Jesus faced every temptation and learned obedience as a human. Mary had to teach Jesus to not touch a hot pot and Joseph had to teach him how to work with tools and not harm himself.
     
    #29 AustinC, Dec 9, 2021
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  10. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    #30 Squire Robertsson, Dec 9, 2021
  11. VDMA

    VDMA Member

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    Amen! Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum!

    Just smoking out the Nestorians. Sadly, most will probably glaze the church fathers.

    Lutheran and Catholics agree on Two natures of Christ, our Christology is identical, The two natures are the one Christ, and the one Christ is the two natures. Baptist don’t agree with Lutherans and Catholics on the Two natures of Christ, hence the reason they reject the real corporal presence in the eucharist, etc. That aside there is no exegetical reason why they should be rejecting the title the Blessed Virgin St. Mary the Mother of God.
     
    #31 VDMA, Dec 9, 2021
  12. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Your conclusion is invalid because your first variable is incomplete. You are connecting dots that cannot be connected.

    Yes, Jesus IS God. But God is triune and the Father/Spirit are ALSO God of which Mary is NOT the mother of.the Father and the Spirit.

    It would be like saying:
    1. Jesse is a first grader.
    2. Polly is the mother of Jesse.
    3. Polly is the mother of the first grade class.

    See. The first statement is incomplete as there are several other children who comprise that first grade class.
     
    #32 Scarlett O., Dec 9, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
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  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Really, without Mary sin and grace is incomplete? Have you utterly failed to read the Old Testament?
     
    #33 AustinC, Dec 9, 2021
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  14. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Verse please.
    I support ‘Sola Scriptura’ as the normative rule, so I would like some Biblical support for the claim that Mary is an UBER-Saint.

    All I see is claims that Mary was ‘blessed’ (εὐλογημένη) …


    [Luk 1:42 NASB95] 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed [are] you among women, and blessed [is] the fruit of your womb!
    [Eph 1:3 NASB95] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ,

    … and she is not alone: the God and Father of our Lord has ‘blessed’ (εὐλογήσας) us as He blessed her.
     
    #34 atpollard, Dec 9, 2021
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  15. VDMA

    VDMA Member

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    If you want to talk about the Semper Virgo, review the post I linked to and response there instead clogging this post up.
     
    #35 VDMA, Dec 9, 2021
  16. VDMA

    VDMA Member

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    #36 VDMA, Dec 9, 2021
  17. Berserk

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    Mary is the mother of God incarnate and in this sense is not the mother of the pre-existent Trinity.
    Remember that Jesus, having "emptied Himself' of all His divine prerogatives to become fully human, needed to receive the Holy Spirit at His baptism before He became capable of performing miracles. That is why His family was scandalized by His alleged messianic mIracle claims after His baptism.
     
    #37 Berserk, Dec 9, 2021
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Because of the BLASPHEMY, that the Roman Catholic church teaches!

    Library : A New Marian Dogma? Coredemptrix, Mediatrix of All Graces, Advocate
     
    #38 SavedByGrace, Dec 10, 2021
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  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    no she is NOT, Mary is ONLY the "mother" of the HUMAN nature that is in the One Person, Jesus Christ, the God-Man. Fully God and fully Man, with the exception of sin.
     
    #39 SavedByGrace, Dec 10, 2021
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  20. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Who existed before all things? God or Mary?
    And if you're going to "reiterate" anything, be sure you have a sick sack handy.

    Corporal presence in the eucharist ... if the wine literally becomes blood, it is forbidden to drink it by the apostles' decrees in Acts 15.
     
    #40 Alcott, Dec 10, 2021
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