The breath of God...

[awaken]

Here are some of my "friends" whom I learn from:
Matthew Poole, a Reformed nonconformist minister who lived in the 1600's and wrote a very good commentary.
Adam Clarke, a Wesleyan minister of the 18th century who also wrote an excellent commentary.
Albert Barnes, a 19th century Presbyterian commentator and scholar.
Charles Spurgeon, also called the "prince of preachers," also from the 19th century. I have many of his sermons, and much of his work is on-line.
In fact, I have a library of 2,000 or more books and hundreds more on my computer. They range from the early church fathers to missionaries of different eras that have gone out into virtually all parts of this earth.

I learn from what the Holy Spirit has taught them.
But since you despise these men and their works, you should never use Strong's concordance or look up any definitions in his concordance. After all, it is a man's work. You can do that all by yourself, led of the Holy Spirit, right? Forget all those computer programs, do everything the old fashioned way. Just the Bible, you and the Holy Spirit. No helps, concordance, commentaries, computer programs, absolutely nothing. In fact you shouldn't even be using a translation should you? That also is a "help." You should only be reading out of the Greek and Hebrew. Or else the Holy Spirit can't help you. For you are relying on the work of a translator, a man, and not of God, right? If you want the Holy Spirit to teach you and only the Holy Spirit, you must do away with everything touched by human hands--just the Bible in its original languages and you in isolation. This is the conclusion of your logic.

But that is not what you have been doing. You have been relying on historical works for years and have been using them, including the KJV, which was translated in 1611!!!

You just contradicted your post from another thread that said..quote

Jesus promised his disciples that he would guide them into all truth (not you). This was in reference to the Word of God. When it came time for the apostles to pen the words of Jesus, the Holy Spirit brought to their memories "all the truth" that Jesus had taught them, word for word. That is what the verse means. It is not applicable to you or I. It was only applicable to the apostles; a promise that he would bring to their memories all the truth that he had taught them.

So now you are saying these men that you are learning from has learned from the Holy Spirit...But we can not???? REALLY?

 

[DHK]

You just contradicted your post from another thread that said..

No, we learn from history; we learn from Godly people especially that have lived throughout history. We learn how God has used individuals throughout history. This is the history that you ignore; the history that you say has not the power of God; the history you deny.

So now you are saying these men that you are learning from has learned from the Holy Spirit...But we can not???? REALLY?

NO! The Holy Spirit does not give revelation any longer. There are 66 books of the Bible: 39 OT, and 27 NT. It is a closed revelation. The Holy Spirit brought back THAT revelation to the apostles that they could write it down for us.
You are not inspired of God, and God does not give you revelation to add to the Bible. Perhaps you can ask the Mormons if you can add your words of wisdom to the Book of Mormon, but you may not add it to the Bible. It is a closed canon. There is a curse on those that add or take away from the Word.

 

[awaken]

No, we learn from history; we learn from Godly people especially that have lived throughout history. We learn how God has used individuals throughout history. This is the history that you ignore; the history that you say has not the power of God; the history you deny.

I do not deny History..I have learned from History! Do not repeat what people in the past failed to do and walk in! You can continue in that history! I am going back to what God said We as the church can walk in and how we can over come!

NO! The Holy Spirit does not give revelation any longer. There are 66 books of the Bible: 39 OT, and 27 NT. It is a closed revelation. The Holy Spirit brought back THAT revelation to the apostles that they could write it down for us.
You are not inspired of God, and God does not give you revelation to add to the Bible. Perhaps you can ask the Mormons if you can add your words of wisdom to the Book of Mormon, but you may not add it to the Bible. It is a closed canon. There is a curse on those that add or take away from the Word.

I never said God inspired me to add to the Bible! THe written word is finished! But my relationship with God is now! He guides me now! In my everyday walk!

Take special note to your own words "TAKE AWAY FROM THE BIBLE"

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I agree!
I agree with Church history in the Bible...it is you that refuses to continue the pattern set out by the Bible itself!

By their context, I have shown you the meaning of the verses you have referenced, which totally refutes your erroneous view but which you willfully and ignorantly ignore.

You disparage all the believers down through the ages who evangelized their neighbors and the world, who stood steadfastly for the Gospel through all kinds of persecution, even to the point of martyrdom. You disparage them because according to you they were not baptized by the Holy Spirit and were therefore lacking in their spiritual life, not having or manifesting the "full" Gospel. What arrogance, but very typical of Charismatics. You should be ashamed.

 

[awaken]

No, we learn from history; we learn from Godly people especially that have lived throughout history. We learn how God has used individuals throughout history. This is the history that you ignore; the history that you say has not the power of God; the history you deny.

Read your post! You said the HOly Spirit only inspired and spoke to the apostles! Now you are trying to tell me that he speaks to these men you are claiming taught you so much! I am not denying that He speaks to men today..you are! I never said we are called to write another chapter in the Bible! But you denied by your post that he leads us into all truth! That is not saying that we know all truth as you proclaimed I meant! But He still guides us to truth! We just have to know His voice!

NO! The Holy Spirit does not give revelation any longer. There are 66 books of the Bible: 39 OT, and 27 NT. It is a closed revelation. The Holy Spirit brought back THAT revelation to the apostles that they could write it down for us.
You are not inspired of God, and God does not give you revelation to add to the Bible. Perhaps you can ask the Mormons if you can add your words of wisdom to the Book of Mormon, but you may not add it to the Bible. It is a closed canon. There is a curse on those that add or take away from the Word.

Lay of the mormaon bit...
Show me where I have added to the Bible?
Again pay special note to your own statement.."OR TAKE AWAY FROM THE BIBLE"

 

[awaken]

By their context, I have shown you the meaning of the verses you have referenced, which totally refutes your erroneous view but which you willfully and ignorantly ignore.

I on the other hand have showed you in scripture where the manifestation of the HOly Spirit is still for us today..which YOU totally refute with your erroneous view and which you willfully and ignorantly ignore!

You disparage all the believers down through the ages who evangelized their neighbors and the world, who stood steadfastly for the Gospel through all kinds of persecution, even to the point of martyrdom. You disparage them because according to you they were not baptized by the Holy Spirit and were therefore lacking in their spiritual life, not having or manifesting the "full" Gospel. What arrogance, but very typical of Charismatics. You should be ashamed.

I am not ashamed of the full gospel of Jesus Christ!
I never said they were not baptized by Jesus in the HOly spirit? How do we know they were not?
Arrogance is when you deny the power! "Thanks for your gift JEsus..but I don't need it to fulfill your great commission" That is the message you are sending!
All the gifts that most want to throw away in 1 Cor. 12 is still for today!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I on the other hand have showed you in scripture where the manifestation of the HOly Spirit is still for us today..which YOU totally refute with your erroneous view and which you willfully and ignorantly ignore!


I am not ashamed of the full gospel of Jesus Christ!
I never said they were not baptized by Jesus in the HOly spirit? How do we know they were not?
Arrogance is when you deny the power! "Thanks for your gift JEsus..but I don't need it to fulfill your great commission" That is the message you are sending!
All the gifts that most want to throw away in 1 Cor. 12 is still for today!

That is ignorant and foolish. And it shows that you either can't read or you selectively read. I have said many times that I am not a cessationist, that I believe any and all of the gifts are present today. What is erroneous is your and the Charismatic/Pentecostal view of how they are used, how they are received, and the meaning and time of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You cannot build true doctrine from an erroneous base. A false foundation is the source for all kinds of false doctrine, and not only that but charlatans who deceive the sheep, as well.

"Deny the power", "deny the power", that's all you can say. That is one of the stupidest things that folks like you spew out. The HS is not an electrical outlet for you to stick your finger in and get a jolt. The Holy Spirit is as I stated. Until you see that, you'll go on falsely seeking a new electrical power surge every so often. So foolish, misguided, and demeaning of the true work and person of the Holy Spirit.

 

[awaken]

That is ignorant and foolish. And it shows that you either can't read or you selectively read. I have said many times that I am not a cessationist, that I believe any and all of the gifts are present today. What is erroneous is your and the Charismatic/Pentecostal view of how they are used, how they are received, and the meaning and time of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You cannot build true doctrine from an erroneous base. A false foundation is the source for all kinds of false doctrine, and not only that but charlatans who deceive the sheep, as well.

"Deny the power", "deny the power", that's all you can say. That is one of the stupidest things that folks like you spew out. The HS is not an electrical outlet for you to stick your finger in and get a jolt. The Holy Spirit is as I stated. Until you see that, you'll go on falsely seeking a new electrical power surge every so often. So foolish, misguided, and demeaning of the true work and person of the Holy Spirit.

I do not seek power for myself! I love to be in His presence...the power of God always is at work where He is welcome!

So we will just have to disagree about the baptism in the Holy Spirit! I have said before...We can get it all at once...or it can be separate! I received by faith after I believed on Jesus as my Savior. Why? Mostly because of the way I was taught (unbelief). Did I have it all along and He was not released in my life to manifest? Possible! I just know it was not until I asked for the Holy Spirit did He begin to manifest as the scriptures say!

 

[DHK]

I do not seek power for myself! I love to be in His presence...the power of God always is at work where He is welcome!

Is he welcome when you watch TV? Or even when you bounce some of these badly written posts on to the BB? So, he is not ALWAYS welcome, is he?
As for being in his presence, we normally come deliberately into his presence when we spend time in prayer, or are even in an attitude of prayer. Again, you must ask yourself when you are not in an attitude of prayer, and I am sure that there are those times.
But the power of God is not always at work. This is where you are sadly mistaken. Read the book of Acts, and you will find the power of God directly related to the preaching of the Word of God, to witnessing. I said before to study carefully Acts 1:8. The Holy Spirit (its power) was given so they could "be witnesses, both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and into the uttermost parts of the earth." That is why they needed the power of the Holy Spirit. One can pray for power as they go and seek to witness to others, or for the preacher as he preaches God's Word. That is the reason for the power of the Holy Spirit. Study carefully the Book of Acts, and see why power was given to the disciples. It had purpose.

So we will just have to disagree about the baptism in the Holy Spirit! I have said before...We can get it all at once...or it can be separate! I received by faith after I believed on Jesus as my Savior. Why? Mostly because of the way I was taught (unbelief).

If you "believed" in unbelief how could you be saved? That doesn't make a lot of sense does it? Either you believed in Christ by faith or you didn't. Either the Holy Spirit, by the power of Christ came and indwelt your life and began to change your life according to his power or he didn't. If there was no change in your life from before the time you were saved, perhaps you were never saved in the first place. True salvation always produces change in a person.

Did I have it all along and He was not released in my life to manifest? Possible! I just know it was not until I asked for the Holy Spirit did He begin to manifest as the scriptures say!

It is not a matter of being released. Where does the Bible talk of something being "released" from you? That is pure Charismatic jargon.
The Bible does speak of the filling of the Holy Spirit, which I suspect you have mixed up with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (which takes place only at salvation).

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
--The verb here is to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit, and is a command given to every believer. The Holy Spirit is to be treated here as an outside force. It is a contrast. What happens when a person allows himself to take liquor into his body and get drunk? He does things he normally would not do. He allows an outside force to take control of his body and he acts outside of his comfort zone doing things he normally would not do.
In the same way we are to so yield ourselves to the Holy Spirit that we operate outside of our "comfort zone" and allow the Holy Spirit to control us so that we would do things we don't normally do (but not in a bad way; in a good way). We witness to individuals that we would not normally witness to. God gives us that power. Totally yielding ourselves to God, we become dead to sin, and can be used in ways that we otherwise would have never been used before. (This has nothing to do with speaking in tongues, healing, miracles, etc.) It has to do with obedience to God.

 

[awaken]

Is he welcome when you watch TV? Or even when you bounce some of these badly written posts on to the BB? So, he is not ALWAYS welcome, is he?

THere you go again..you can not stay on subject of the threads because you are so busy attacking me personally! I pray for his guidiance as I share on any board or any gathering! So you AGAIN ACCUSE ME UNJUSTLY WITH YOUR LITTLE SNIDE REMARKS!

As for being in his presence, we normally come deliberately into his presence when we spend time in prayer, or are even in an attitude of prayer. Again, you must ask yourself when you are not in an attitude of prayer, and I am sure that there are those times.

We come before his presence with singing. We enter his gates with thanksgiving..his courts with praise...

But the power of God is not always at work. This is where you are sadly mistaken. Read the book of Acts, and you will find the power of God directly related to the preaching of the Word of God, to witnessing. I said before to study carefully Acts 1:8. The Holy Spirit (its power) was given so they could "be witnesses, both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and into the uttermost parts of the earth." That is why they needed the power of the Holy Spirit. One can pray for power as they go and seek to witness to others, or for the preacher as he preaches God's Word. That is the reason for the power of the Holy Spirit. Study carefully the Book of Acts, and see why power was given to the disciples. It had purpose.

So you seek HIs power? You gave the impression in another thread that we are not to seek it? You keep contradicting yourself!

If you "believed" in unbelief how could you be saved? That doesn't make a lot of sense does it? Either you believed in Christ by faith or you didn't. Either the Holy Spirit, by the power of Christ came and indwelt your life and began to change your life according to his power or he didn't. If there was no change in your life from before the time you were saved, perhaps you were never saved in the first place. True salvation always produces change in a person.

Read my post slowly and maybe you will not read over the truths there...I said I stayed in unbelief concerning the truth of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit because the way I was taught. Just like you are being taught and you are teaching others!..not to believe in all the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. I will go as far as to say that most baptist do not even know what the 9 manifestation really are!

It is not a matter of being released. Where does the Bible talk of something being "released" from you? That is pure Charismatic jargon.
The Bible does speak of the filling of the Holy Spirit, which I suspect you have mixed up with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (which takes place only at salvation).

Filling can happen more than once..the Baptism is like salvation a one time experience!

Some people teach that we get all the Holy Spirit we are going to get at salvation. My reference about releasing Him is letting out what is inside!

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
--The verb here is to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit, and is a command given to every believer. The Holy Spirit is to be treated here as an outside force. It is a contrast. What happens when a person allows himself to take liquor into his body and get drunk? He does things he normally would not do. He allows an outside force to take control of his body and he acts outside of his comfort zone doing things he normally would not do.
In the same way we are to so yield ourselves to the Holy Spirit that we operate outside of our "comfort zone" and allow the Holy Spirit to control us so that we would do things we don't normally do (but not in a bad way; in a good way). We witness to individuals that we would not normally witness to. God gives us that power. Totally yielding ourselves to God, we become dead to sin, and can be used in ways that we otherwise would have never been used before. (This has nothing to do with speaking in tongues, healing, miracles, etc.) It has to do with obedience to God.

I agreed with this statement until the last sentence...but you knew I would! Everything the Holy Spirit leads us into, including tongues etc. is through HIS POWER AND HIS WILL. We have to obey!

 

[DHK]

THere you go again..you can not stay on subject of the threads because you are so busy attacking me personally! I pray for his guidiance as I share on any board or any gathering! So you AGAIN ACCUSE ME UNJUSTLY WITH YOUR LITTLE SNIDE REMARKS!

When YOU post something the something that YOU post are YOUR words, and belong to YOU PERSONALLY. When refuted therefore you go on the defensive, and tell me that I am unjustly accusing you. You above statements are ridiculous.
You have been making statements about the Holy Spirit, being in His presence, always having His power, etc. I gave a rebuttal. I will give it again:
Do you have the power of the Holy Spirit when you sit in front of the TV watching a football game?
Now instead of unjustly accusing me of anything, answer the question!
Are you standing in the presence of Holy Spirit when you cheer for your favorite team?
These are not snide remarks. The fact that you say they are snide remarks only demonstrates that you are easily offended, whereas the "Spiritual love" described in 1Cor.13:1-7, "is not easily offended."

We come before his presence with singing. We enter his gates with thanksgiving..his courts with praise...

That is true. But that doesn't happen all the time, and that was my point.

So you seek HIs power? You gave the impression in another thread that we are not to seek it? You keep contradicting yourself!

I carefully explained myself and still you misrepresent my position and put words in my mouth that I never said.
First: The Bible commands us to be continually filled with his Spirit, which I seek to do.
Second, this has nothing to do with the gifts of the Spirit mentioned in 1Cor.12, for they have ceased. I cannot seek after something that doesn't exist. That is the foolishness of the Charismatic movement and how fraudulent it is. They offer an imitation for the real that the Bible describes is no longer here. But cheap imitations are not worth the emotional price tag that one ends up paying.

Read my post slowly and maybe you will not read over the truths there...I said I stayed in unbelief concerning the truth of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit because the way I was taught. Just like you are being taught and you are teaching others!..not to believe in all the manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

See how you continue to misuse this word. It is as if you don't know its meaning though I continue to define ti for you, even through another translation. The so-called manifestations that you speak of are not for today. Those are called "the gifts of the Holy Spirit," not "manifestations." Please learn that.

1Co 12:7 The Spirit has given each of us a special way of serving others.
--The Holy Spirit works in every believer, giving us all different ways of serving him. This is how he manifests himself today, and it has nothing to do with the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" mentioned in 1Cor.12 which have ceased. The two are not interchangeable.

I will go as far as to say that most baptist do not even know what the 9 manifestation really are!

There is no such thing. There are thousands upon thousands of "manifestations" that is, ways that the Holy Spirit works or manifests himself through believers in their service for Him. It has nothing to do with the "gifts of the Holy Spirit," as you mistakenly assume. Study your Bible.

Some people teach that we get all the Holy Spirit we are going to get at salvation. My reference about releasing Him is letting out what is inside!

Typical Charismatic mumbo-jumbo not found in the Bible.
Letting out what? Your liver, kidneys, bladder, thyroid, intestines, or just what else is in there that you want to let out??
This "letting out" jargon, is in scripture just as much as "slain in the spirit" is in the Bible. It is nonsense.

I agreed with this statement until the last sentence...but you knew I would! Everything the Holy Spirit leads us into, including tongues etc. is through HIS POWER AND HIS WILL. We have to obey!

The Lord does not lead us into those things that are clearly against his will, and that includes speaking gibberish, nonsensical babble found only among paganism and cults, and the cult of the Charismatic movement founded in 1905!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

It should be clear to everyone reading all this that the final authority for Charismatics is not the Bible but their own experiences, a very unstable and dangerous proposition!

 

[Yeshua1]

You just contradicted your post from another thread that said..quote

So now you are saying these men that you are learning from has learned from the Holy Spirit...But we can not???? REALLY?

Do you hold that a Christian MUST experience the Baptism in the Holy Ghost as evidenced by speaking in other tongues in order to be able to teach/preach the "full Gospel?"

 

[awaken]

When YOU post something the something that YOU post are YOUR words, and belong to YOU PERSONALLY. When refuted therefore you go on the defensive, and tell me that I am unjustly accusing you. You above statements are ridiculous.

You can refute without getting personal...just stick to with debating with the Word.

You have been making statements about the Holy Spirit, being in His presence, always having His power, etc. I gave a rebuttal. I will give it again:
Do you have the power of the Holy Spirit when you sit in front of the TV watching a football game?

I do not watch much TV...but the Holy Spirit will never leave me nor forsake me! So I would say, yes!

Now instead of unjustly accusing me of anything, answer the question!
Are you standing in the presence of Holy Spirit when you cheer for your favorite team?
These are not snide remarks. The fact that you say they are snide remarks only demonstrates that you are easily offended, whereas the "Spiritual love" described in 1Cor.13:1-7, "is not easily offended."

Those were not the snide remarks..Oh, if I was easily offended I would have left this board a long time ago! But you do try my patience!

That is true. But that doesn't happen all the time, and that was my point.

Well maybe you can just get to the point next time!

I carefully explained myself and still you misrepresent my position and put words in my mouth that I never said.
First: The Bible commands us to be continually filled with his Spirit, which I seek to do.
Second, this has nothing to do with the gifts of the Spirit mentioned in 1Cor.12, for they have ceased. I cannot seek after something that doesn't exist. That is the foolishness of the Charismatic movement and how fraudulent it is. They offer an imitation for the real that the Bible describes is no longer here. But cheap imitations are not worth the emotional price tag that one ends up paying.

All I can say to you at this point is ...You continue in your unbelief concerning the manifestation of the Holy Spirit! I stepped out in faith and now walk in them! You will never experience something you do not believe! THe scriptures are plain..if you will just get your man made theology out of the way!

See how you continue to misuse this word. It is as if you don't know its meaning though I continue to define ti for you, even through another translation. The so-called manifestations that you speak of are not for today. Those are called "the gifts of the Holy Spirit," not "manifestations." Please learn that.

I will call it what the Bible calls it! The gifts are the manifestation, which are listed in 1 Cor. 12..just to name a few! But in context of that subject and chapter they only listed the nine.

1Co 12:7 The Spirit has given each of us a special way of serving others.
--The Holy Spirit works in every believer, giving us all different ways of serving him. This is how he manifests himself today, and it has nothing to do with the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" mentioned in 1Cor.12 which have ceased. The two are not interchangeable.

Well, I guess you can ignore 1 Cor. like you do Acts then! I am not saying we are not to serve others...just that your over emphasis of that and over looking others is getting tiresome!

 

[Yeshua1]

You can refute without getting personal...just stick to with debating with the Word.

I do not watch much TV...but the Holy Spirit will never leave me nor forsake me! So I would say, yes!
Those were not the snide remarks..Oh, if I was easily offended I would have left this board a long time ago! But you do try my patience!

Well maybe you can just get to the point next time!

All I can say to you at this point is ...You continue in your unbelief concerning the manifestation of the Holy Spirit! I stepped out in faith and now walk in them! You will never experience something you do not believe! THe scriptures are plain..if you will just get your man made theology out of the way!

I will call it what the Bible calls it! The gifts are the manifestation, which are listed in 1 Cor. 12..just to name a few! But in context of that subject and chapter they only listed the nine.

Well, I guess you can ignore 1 Cor. like you do Acts then! I am not saying we are not to serve others...just that your over emphasis of that and over looking others is getting tiresome!

No, we don't ignore either books, its just that we interprete them in the correct matter, with the grammar/history/contex/setting etc, and that we realise that those books were adressing a transistion period, beginnings of the Church, andthat we have a differentfashion the Spirit speaks and act thru/to us today, as its thecompleted word of God!

 

[awaken]

There is no such thing. There are thousands upon thousands of "manifestations" that is, ways that the Holy Spirit works or manifests himself through believers in their service for Him. It has nothing to do with the "gifts of the Holy Spirit," as you mistakenly assume. Study your Bible.

You are the one that yells the loudest about context..yet, you can not read 1 Cor. 12:7-10 in context! IT LIST THEM PLAIN!

Typical Charismatic mumbo-jumbo not found in the Bible.
Letting out what? Your liver, kidneys, bladder, thyroid, intestines, or just what else is in there that you want to let out??
This "letting out" jargon, is in scripture just as much as "slain in the spirit" is in the Bible. It is nonsense.

:wavey: Some people probably do!

The Lord does not lead us into those things that are clearly against his will, and that includes speaking gibberish, nonsensical babble found only among paganism and cults, and the cult of the Charismatic movement founded in 1905!

You are the one that is saying tongues is gibberish/babble...God leads us into what is firm in scriptures. Some just refuse to accept it!

 

[awaken]

It should be clear to everyone reading all this that the final authority for Charismatics is not the Bible but their own experiences, a very unstable and dangerous proposition!

No, all should realize that scripture is the final authority....some just ignore scriptures...listen to man more than God!

 

[awaken]

Do you hold that a Christian MUST experience the Baptism in the Holy Ghost as evidenced by speaking in other tongues in order to be able to teach/preach the "full Gospel?"

Don't know how you come to that conclusion reading my post??

 

[awaken]

No, we don't ignore either books, its just that we interprete them in the correct matter, with the grammar/history/contex/setting etc, and that we realise that those books were adressing a transistion period, beginnings of the Church, andthat we have a differentfashion the Spirit speaks and act thru/to us today, as its thecompleted word of God!

We are still the church that the Holy Spirit was poured out on! His church still exist today..and manifest the Holy Spirit as the scriptures says

 

[Thomas Helwys]

No, all should realize that scripture is the final authority....some just ignore scriptures...listen to man more than God!

And when will you stop doing that?