SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
the question is, is repentance necessary for a sinner to be saved, or, is just faith enough?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The Calvinist Gospel
- Thread starter atpollard
- Start date
- Status
the question is, is repentance necessary for a sinner to be saved, or, is just faith enough?
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Yes, I understand. The answer depends on the dispensational context.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Now, in New Testament times?
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
The gospels are not New Testament, they are Old Testament (according to Jesus Christ and Paul):
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Interesting how you reply with a long video? Why can't you give answers like the rest of us do?
You say that the Four Gospels are OT? For this to be true they must be in the OT Canon, in which case the Jews would have accepted them, and Jesus as their Messiah!
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
You're still looking at this from the point of view of the gospels being N.T., which is understandable.
What the Jews rejected was in effect part of the O.T., just as they had rejected Moses himself (Jn.5:46, Acts 7:38-39).
Ok, I'll quote one passage about this if you prefer not to watch the video, but I do the videos because the same issues always come up and it's great to simply link people to a video. Anyway, here it is:
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force AFTER men are dead: otherwise it is of NO strength AT ALL while the testator liveth (i.e. the gospels).
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
all this means is that the Death of the Lord Jesus Christ, also covered the sins of those believers who dies under the Old Testament. This does not say in any way that the NT belongs to the OT, they are very distinct!
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Your comment only covers this part: for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
You ignored everything else, like Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force AFTER men are dead: otherwise it is of NO strength AT ALL while the testator liveth (i.e. the gospels).
The New Testament was not of force during the gospels while Christ lived.
It's only AFTER his death that the veil was rent.
Just for fun, I thought I would post the GOOD NEWS from a classic REFORMED (Calvinist) source in response to the implied challenge in the above quote. I don’t really care what happens to the topic after that ... I will have made the only point that I wanted to make.
Q. According to God’s righteous judgment we deserve punishment both now and in eternity: how then can we escape this punishment and return to God’s favor?
A. God requires that his justice be satisfied.[1] Therefore the claims of this justice must be paid in full, either by ourselves or by another.[2]
1 Ex. 23:7; Rom. 2:1-11
2 Isa. 53:11; Rom. 8:3-4
Q. Can we make this payment ourselves?
A. Certainly not. Actually, we increase our debt every day.[1]
1 Matt. 6:12; Rom. 2:4-5
Q. Can another creature—any at all—pay this debt for us?
A. No. To begin with, God will not punish any other creature for what a human is guilty of.[1] Furthermore, no mere creature can bear the weight of God’s eternal wrath against sin and deliver others from it.[2]
1 Ezek. 18:4, 20; Heb. 2:14-18
2 Ps. 49:7-9; 130:3
Q. What kind of mediator and deliverer should we look for then?
A. One who is a true[1] and righteous[2] human, yet more powerful than all creatures, that is, one who is also true God.[3]
1 Rom. 1:3; 1 Cor. 15:21; Heb. 2:17
2 Isa. 53:9; 2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 7:26
3 Isa. 7:14; 9:6; Jer. 23:6; John 1:1
Q. Why must the mediator be a true and righteous human?
A. God’s justice demands that human nature, which has sinned, must pay for sin;[1] but a sinful human could never pay for others.[2]
1 Rom. 5:12, 15; 1 Cor. 15:21; Heb. 2:14-16
2 Heb. 7:26-27; 1 Pet. 3:18
Q. Why must the mediator also be true God?
A. So that the mediator, by the power of his divinity, might bear the weight of God’s wrath in his humanity and earn for us and restore to us righteousness and life.[1]
1 Isa. 53; John 3:16; 2 Cor. 5:21
Q. Then who is this mediator—true God and at the same time a true and righteous human?
A. Our Lord Jesus Christ,[1] who was given to us to completely deliver us and make us right with God.[2]
1 Matt. 1:21-23; Luke 2:11; 1 Tim. 2:5
2 1 Cor. 1:30
Q. How do you come to know this?
A. The holy gospel tells me. God began to reveal the gospel already in Paradise;[1] later God proclaimed it by the holy patriarchs[2] and prophets[3] and foreshadowed it by the sacrifices and other ceremonies of the law;[4] and finally God fulfilled it through his own beloved Son.[5]
1 Gen. 3:15
2 Gen. 22:18; 49:10
3 Isa. 53; Jer. 23:5-6; Mic. 7:18-20; Acts 10:43; Heb. 1:1-2
4 Lev. 1-7; John 5:46; Heb. 10:1-10
5 Rom. 10:4; Gal. 4:4-5; Col. 2:17
Q. Are all people then saved through Christ just as they were lost through Adam?
A. No. Only those are saved who through true faith are grafted into Christ and accept all his benefits.[1]
1 Matt. 7:14; John 3:16, 18, 36; Rom. 11:16-21
Q. What is true faith?
A. True faith is not only a sure knowledge by which I hold as true all that God has revealed to us in Scripture;[1] it is also a wholehearted trust,[2] which the Holy Spirit creates in me[3] by the gospel,[4] that God has freely granted, not only to others but to me also,[5] forgiveness of sins, eternal righteousness, and salvation.[6] These are gifts of sheer grace, granted solely by Christ’s merit.[7]
1 John 17:3, 17; Heb. 11:1-3; James 2:19
2 Rom. 4:18-21; 5:1; 10:10; Heb. 4:14-16
3 Matt. 16:15-17; John 3:5; Acts 16:14
4 Rom. 1:16; 10:17; 1 Cor. 1:21
5 Gal. 2:20
6 Rom. 1:17; Heb. 10:10
7 Rom. 3:21-26; Gal. 2:16; Eph. 2:8-10
(from the Heidelberg Catechism of 1563)
This is what I used to teach my daughter about the “Theology” of God and what was important to know.
How we live our lives and handle the everyday trials and triumphs is how we taught her about the reality of living in Covenant with God and the Lordship of Jesus Christ. That is my “Calvinist Gospel”.
Make of it what you will ... I am not YOUR servant. (Rom 14:4)
The only thing I would add, for the sake of our culture, is the beginning of the story. Why did Jesus need to come in the first place? Where did sin and death come from? What was the world like before sin (Gen. 1:31)? The Fall and Curse set the stage for the Gospel.
I would also add the end of the story. Christ's return is the culmination of the Gospel.
IOWs tell the whole story. Don't skip the beginning and end. Our evolutionary culture is confused about sin and death, and thus very likely confused about the One who was prophesied to conquer them (Gen. 3:15).
Last edited:
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I agree.
That was just the middle third of the Catechism.
Part one was "Misery"
Part two (which I posted) was "Deliverance"
Part three is "Gratitude"
Perhaps you could post that part. I'd like to see how they handle it.
Reformed seminaries, today, have generally botched the creation account. Very few uphold biblical creation. (though Calvin, to his credit, was a biblical creationist)
Last edited:
atpollard
Well-Known Member
well, one can be a dispy per eschatology, and yet calvinist in regards to salvation, see Dr Mac!
ONLY way to be right in the sight of God would be to be in Chrsit, regardless of their works and lifestyle!
many have seemed to buy into the junk of either theistic evolution, or else a creation myth, or else not real special creation of humanity!
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Dispensationalism = different plans of salvation in different ages
Calvinism = same plan of salvation in all ages
So, no, one cannot.
well, Dr Mac, James M Boice, JO Buswell, and others would disagree with you about that!
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Jonah 3 is Old Testament Gentiles matching Romans 2, not New Testament Gentiles matching Romans 3.
Dispensationalism, as always, unties the Gordian knots.
Some of the theological aspects of dyspism problematic. MacArthur sticks to the basics. Israel is not the Church and the Church is not Israel. There is a national plan for Israel, and a redemptive plan for all individuals. We are all saved by Christ and the Cross. OT saints did not get saved apart from the Cross.
This, BTW, is a bit of a thread hijack. Perhaps you or someone can start a fresh thread.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Yes, they would indeed. But Dr. Ruckman, Dr. Sam Gipp, Dr. William Grady, Jonathan Marshall, and Peter Kyriopoulos would disagree with them back.
- Status