The Calvinist Gospel

[Van]

I addressed the first (Matthew 23:13) in another topic and again in this one. I am waiting for a response to me addressing of the first verse before wasting time with the second. If you would really like a conversation, then please start a topic and we can discuss one verse at a time and move on to as many as you would like to discuss. However, I get the feeling that you like to post those verses but have no real desire to discuss them (or even post what they actually say).

Has anyone seen where folks can be entering the kingdom yet not be seeking God? Regardless if such an outrageous claim is made, it would remain utter nonsense.

And then the claim of a willingness to actually discuss scripture. Lets see if Matthew 23:13 can be discussed with other than absurdity.

 

[Reformed1689]

Again, you are denying the obvious. People entering the kingdom are seeking God.

And again, it is not our position, nor the biblical position, that nobody seeks after God at any time. It is the biblical position, and the Calvinist position that no man seeks after God in his NATURAL state.

 

[atpollard]

Point out the word “lost” in your translation of that verse, or admit it is not there.

Those not in the kingdom are lost. In Christ = saved, not in Christ = not saved. Christianity 101

So the word “lost” does not appear.
Show me the word “in Christ” in that verse you have built this house of cards on.

Adding words to a sentence changes the meaning of what was written. Reading 101.
Why do you find it necessary to rewrite scripture rather than quote what it actually says?

 

[Iconoclast]

So the word “lost” does not appear.
Show me the word “in Christ” in that verse you have built this house of cards on.

Adding words to a sentence changes the meaning of what was written. Reading 101.
Why do you find it necessary to rewrite scripture rather than quote what it actually says?

This has been the standard MO. of certain posters ,we are.not supposed to notice.

 

[Dave G]

Your claims are noted. Matthew 23:13 has lost people entering the kingdom, thus seeking God.

Where does it say that they are lost, Van?

My Bible says this:

" Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." ( John 3:3 ).
" Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. " ( John 3:5-6 ).

Whose is it that is entering in in Matthew 23?
I see that it is those that are born again that are entering in.
Therefore, no one who is not born again will enter, neither will they see it.
Only the saved ( born again ) will enter into the kingdom of God.

If lost people can enter into God's kingdom, then this is false:

" He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." ( Revelation 21:7-8 ).

" And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life." ( Revelation 21:25-27 ).

The lost are the only ones "without" ( outside ) the kingdom.
Are the lost written in the Lamb's Book of Life?

If not, then they cannot enter in, Van.

 

[Dave G]

People entering the kingdom are seeking God.

Amen.
Only the people that are entering in are seeking God.

I also see that since there is none that seek God in and of ourselves per Romans 3:10-18, Psalms 10:1-4 and Psalms 14:1-3, then the ones entering in and who seek the Lord are those whom the Lord has graciously saved.

 

[Van]

And again, it is not our position, nor the biblical position, that nobody seeks after God at any time. It is the biblical position, and the Calvinist position that no man seeks after God in his NATURAL state.

Deflection on display, what does the "T" say?

 

[Van]

So the word “lost” does not appear.
Show me the word “in Christ” in that verse you have built this house of cards on.

Adding words to a sentence changes the meaning of what was written. Reading 101.
Why do you find it necessary to rewrite scripture rather than quote what it actually says?

Yet another deflection, without acknowledgment that those entering the kingdom were seeking God while lost.

 

[Van]

Where does it say that they are lost, Van?
SNIP

Right, the saved were not allowed to enter. Got it.

This is all they have folks, utter nonsense.

 

[Van]

Amen.
Only the people that are entering in are seeking God.

I also see that since there is none that seek God in and of ourselves per Romans 3:10-18, Psalms 10:1-4 and Psalms 14:1-3, then the ones entering in and who seek the Lord are those whom the Lord has graciously saved.

So if they were lost and seeking God, then the "T" of the TULIP is false doctrine.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus has bought the rights to all mankind, all flesh jn17:2
He gives life to those the Father has given Him ,no more,no less.

John 3:16, "WHOSEVER believes..."

"And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life." (John Calvin)

The Calvinistic phrase is "all men without distinction", to accommdate their "election to salvation". What Calvin uses is to show that Jesus Christ died for THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE!!! Even John Calvin himself, DISAGREES with so-called "Calvinists"!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Again, repentance means different things in different dispensations.

Agreed about Sai. Too many here are so doctrinally correct that they'll damn a brother to hell.

The Holy Bible IS the UNCHANGING Word of Almighty God. REPENTANCE has ALWAYS meant the SAME, from Genesis to Revelation! "godly sorrow for personal sins, and a turning to the Lord Jesus Christ in faith"

 

[Iconoclast]

John 3:16, "WHOSEVER believes..."

"And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life." (John Calvin)

The Calvinistic phrase is "all men without distinction", to accommdate their "election to salvation". What Calvin uses is to show that Jesus Christ died for THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE!!! Even John Calvin himself, DISAGREES with so-called "Calvinists"!

Everyone believing...as the gospel is preached it is offered to all men everywhere.We go into all the world.Jesus did not die for every person ever born.
Many have lived and died before Jesus went to the cross.
The world of the ungodly died in the flood, without hearing of Jesus.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Everyone believing...as the gospel is preached it is offered to all men everywhere.We go into all the world.Jesus did not die for every person ever born.
Many have lived and died before Jesus went to the cross.
The world of the ungodly died in the flood, without hearing of Jesus.

How about 2 Peter 2:1? where is it rather clear to everyone who is not of the Reformed/Calvinistic thinking, that Jesus Christ actually DIED for these "false prophets" and "false teachers", who have heretical teachings that are damnable? The word "bought", ἀγοράζω, is the SAME that Paul uses in 1 Corinthians, where he says, "For ye are bought (ἀγοράζω) with a price" (6:20), and 7:23, "Ye are bought (ἀγοράζω) with a price". And Revelation 5:9, "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed (ἀγοράζω) us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation". Of course I don't expect any Reformed/Calvinistic to accept this, as it goes right against their theology!

 

[Iconoclast]

How about 2 Peter 2:1? where is it rather clear to everyone who is not of the Reformed/Calvinistic thinking, that Jesus Christ actually DIED for these "false prophets" and "false teachers", who have heretical teachings that are damnable? The word "bought", ἀγοράζω, is the SAME that Paul uses in 1 Corinthians, where he says, "For ye are bought (ἀγοράζω) with a price" (6:20), and 7:23, "Ye are bought (ἀγοράζω) with a price". And Revelation 5:9, "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed (ἀγοράζω) us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation". Of course I don't expect any Reformed/Calvinistic to accept this, as it goes right against their theology!

I answered that earlier.jn17:1-3.Jesus bought the rights to all flesh on the cross,but only Grant's eternal life to the children the Father has given to Him.
He saves each and every one of them. He is not willing that any perish.
Mt20:28
Mt20:15

 

[atpollard]

Even John Calvin himself, DISAGREES with so-called "Calvinists"!

THANK YOU!
Finally someone gets it.
"Calvinists" do not follow the teachings of John Calvin, we follow the teachings of the Bible!

 

[SavedByGrace]

only Grant's eternal life to the children the Father has given to Him

any repentance required by the sinner before they are saved?

 

[Iconoclast]

any repentance required by the sinner before they are saved?

Sinners are told to repent and believe the gospel.
There is no set.level that must be attained.
They do not have to totally reform their lives before God grants them repentance and faith.
In all saved persons who have mental capacity, they have a godly sorrow for all sins that leads them to repentance.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Sinners are told to repent and believe the gospel.
There is no set.level that must be attained.
They do not have to totally reform their lives before God grants them repentance and faith.
In all saved persons who have mental capacity, they have a godly sorrow for all sins that leads them to repentance.

so, this means that it cannot be as Reformed theology would have us believe, that Justification is by faith ALONE. If the sinner is required to repent of their personal sins before they can get saved (Justified), then the alone teaching is not Biblical but theology based on someones own understanding of what they think the Bible should teach!

 

[Iconoclast]

so, this means that it cannot be as Reformed theology would have us believe, that Justification is by faith ALONE. If the sinner is required to repent of their personal sins before they can get saved (Justified), then the alone teaching is not Biblical but theology based on someones own understanding of what they think the Bible should teach!

well now...your opposition is with the Holy Spirit,and the Apostle Peter on the day of Pentecost.
In that sermon he directed them to confess Jesus as Lord, and REPENT, and be baptized.
I and millions believe that. Your failed attempt to twist what I posted will not change the God breathed words of the Holy Spirit preached by Peter.
You feel the need to twist what I posted because I saw through your gotcha question. Are you reduced to this because you desire to resist truth at all cost?
You try and alter my response to one you can attempt to answer?