That's more or less what happened to me. I would wear that apostate declaration as a badge of honor.
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The Catholic Church Is Not Entirely False And Does Worship The Biblical And Historical Jesus As God
- Thread starter John Yurich
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Not Biblical.
So, you want to be half-Baptist who goes to a Catholic church, but doesn't submit to either one of them?
I am Catholic. All say my church is a whore of babylon and Servant of Satan.
But we don't say your faiths are of the devil, we say they are gifts of God.
And we call you brothers and sisters despite we feel you are in error.
No one ever calls your faiths of the devil, Only Catholics get that.
Matthew 10
24“A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25“It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household!
^ONLY Catholics get that.
We think your faith is cute. Toddler brethren that needs to be taught guidance.
But we don't say your faiths are of the devil, we say they are gifts of God.
And we call you brothers and sisters despite we feel you are in error.
No one ever calls your faiths of the devil, Only Catholics get that.
Matthew 10
24“A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25“It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household!
^ONLY Catholics get that.
We think your faith is cute. Toddler brethren that needs to be taught guidance.
James 2
24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Concerning Purgatory is quite easy. There is NO SINNING in heaven. No SINNER can enter heaven.
Revelations 21
21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
22I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 26and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
So you know off the bat, There is no sinning in heaven, and nothing unclean, no sinner can enter heaven.
Have you stopped sinning? When and where will you stop? Hint: When and Where is BEFORE you enter heaven. We got a name for that time and place when you are finally cleansed away and will never sin again.
You can call that moment what ever name you want to give it. A rose by any other name is still a rose. We call this purgatory.
If you say YOU will never going to stop sinning, well then your never going to enter heaven either, It says precisely no sin will enter there. Its going to STOP before and then you go to heaven. How can remain a mystery, Where is mystery. Purgatory might be your front lawn and God is going to hose you down with a garden hose. We don't know the details. but we know you WILL STOP SINNING before you enter heaven.
You have already been baptized, all you will be doing on the 3rd Sunday in May is getting wet.
What was said that you are responding to is a lie and it is a sin to tell falsehoods about others.
It is a sin to lie about others and what they believe. I have told you the truth - it is you who are wrong.
Here's the whole thing, as you would have seen, had you been honest enough to quote in in context:
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what goodb is that? 17So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
So we see from reading the whole passage in its proper context that the point isn't that works can save, but that faith, which saves, is made evident by works. That is, that we are saved unto good works, not by good works, just as Ephesians 2:8-10 says.
In fact, the verse just before the one you cherry picked states that Abraham was justified by his faith in God.
Yeah, we know. That's why Jesus bore our sins and imputed His righteousness to us.
But Christ has made us clean.
Because you deny the sufficiency of Christ's atonement.
Catholics believe Purgatory is some mythical land where sinners must expiate their own sin. Christians believe our "purgation" was at the cross where Jesus bore and expiated our sins.
At some point we will all find out for sure, won't we? Really now though, at this point though the only thing we all have going for us is faith in what we all believe. I argue this, you argue that, and that person over there argues something else. None of us has seen anything about what we read in the Scriptures or what we are taught by our religious leaders. That's it - faith is all we are going on as we seek the higher way and live our lives in this mad, mad world.
The difference is that we have the Word of God. You just have your cult's traditions.
Yes, the cult of Jesus - count me in! But my observations still remain true - all you have is faith, same as me. Blessed are those who have not seen, but still believe!
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Like I said, we have the Word of God. All you have is the cult of the Catholic Church and its traditions and false gospel.
We have the Word of God, the Word Himself in the Holy Eucharist - so there!
And just like everyone else you have an opinion about things and a particular interpretation of the Scriptures, like when it comes to purgatory which is an issue which has come up before. You just have a different interpretation of 1 Cor 3:10-15. Peace brother.
James would certainly disagree with you, for he makes it clear Abraham was justified by works:
James 2:21-24
King James Version (KJV)
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
The typical commentary by Catholics and Protestant in their unending debate over this issue has, in my view, a very simple solution: both are wrong.
I would suggest that based on the indisputable fact that Jesus Christ obtained (the right to bestow) Eternal Redemption through the very Cross (His Offering/Sacrifice) and it was at that point men were eternally redeemed and declared righteous based on the Work of Christ and this through faith in Christ...
...that we acknowledge that neither Paul nor James are trying to establish that they were eternally redeemed by either the (general) faith in God they exhibited, or, the works which evidenced that faith (which is what James is teaching about above).
Consider:
Romans 3:21-23
King James Version (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Prior to the establishment of the New Covenant and the receiving of the Promises of God made under Old Testament conditions, men were not eternally redeemed through the sacrifices offered up for atonement of sin. While it is popular pulpit mythology that the Old Testament Saints were "saved on credit," we do not see a support for such a view in Scripture. They were "saved" from the eternal perspective by grace through faith, and their eternal destiny just as secure as every born again believer saved after the Cross and Pentecost, but, the simple fact is that even though Abraham was justified by faith, and works, he was not...
...imputed with the righteousness of Christ through faith in Christ.
Romans 3:21-26
King James Version (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
The "all" of v.23 refers to Abraham as well as everyone else.
The "now" refers to this Age.
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
So I would suggest a difference between a man being justified for his faith, and being justified through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
All Old Testament Saints, even unto the Thief on the Cross, died still in need of redemption which could come only through the Offering of the Son of God of himself. That basic truth is reiterated throughout the New Testament, yet we still see division concerning how a man is justified.
The sins of the Old Testament Saint could be good reason to see Salvation by Grace through Faith as not only present in the Old Testament, but perhaps to a higher degree, seeing they died apart from Eternal Redemption yet were not consigned to a fate of Eternal Separation:
Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version (KJV)
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
God bless.
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. -Ac. 13.39
So has Satan.
Where the Roman church fails is in understanding God's grace. It creates a false teaching of continual need for salvation via the sacraments.
Just to be clear, John. After Jesus perfect sacrifice, You are no longer a sinner and are right now perfect and pure, correct?
You are telling us that your are a sinless saint right now, correct?
Where Reformist fail is knowledge of reading skills. Sacrament is a fancy word for Gift of God. Reconciliation the fancy word for Forgiveness from God is absolutely required for salvation.
Convince me you do not need God's forgiveness and you have a winning argument.
John Calvin himself says the Eucharist is essential to salvation and should be partook every week.
(Petit traicté de la Sainte Cène, 1541).
Heres a link in english: Short Treatise on the Lord's Supper by John Calvin
All your teachers Calvin, Luther. Would give you a failing grade. Your notions are absurdities, recent and new age.
What a flat out LIE. Catholics believe Jesus Christ is God almighty and worship no other.
I challenge you to state Jesus Christ is God almighty. I read the other threads and see you weasel out of stating so. A modern day Judaiser.
If you really believe you can say some magic words and turn Jesus Christ into a cracker, then you have a false Christ.
OK. Let's say you're right. Why should I believe the opinions of some non-Christian cultist who denies the sufficiency of Christ's atonement, believes in works salvation, denies the teaching of scripture, believes Christ is a cookie, and prays to dead people over 2,000 years of Christian scholarship?
And what eisegesis did you use to come to the conclusion that 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 has anything at all to do with the Unbiblical notion of Purgatory?
No, my illiterate friend. Google the phrase "simul justus et peccator.
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In the end you are the one who ignores 2000 years of Christian scholarship. For over 1400 years the Universal (Catholic) Christian Church taught but one set of doctrines and truth's and all of Christendom followed these teachings. Then suddenly, out of nowhere one man decided he knew more than the accumulated knowledge of the Church and went rogue, ripping up the Holy Bible so it was left with only the things he wanted to remain in it. Other men then compounded his error and we have what exists today, over 30,000 new Christian sects, each claiming they have the truth of the Christian experience.
It is telling that even with the first great schism of Christianity between the East and West in 1054, our Eastern Orthodox brothers never dared to abandon the solid orthodoxy that existed up until that point. They themselves kept the sacramental way of belief, which included infant baptism, a liturgical form of worship and most importantly the "Real Presence" of Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist.
No, you are the one's who have strayed, following a man made form of Christianity by having the pulpit as the highlight of your worship, rather than the altar and Christ's sacrifice on Calvary - the memorial that He commanded us to re-enact. "Do this in memory of me" He said, we do and you don't - you deny (Real Presence) and we believe, it's that simple.
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