The catholic church recants!

[Alive in Christ]

Salvation is always by a kind of faith that works by love. This is the only kind of faith that is acceptable to God (Gal. 5:6).

Thats not quite correct. Close...but not quite.


we are justified/saved by faith ALONE. Absolutely NOTHING is added to it or required.


The "Fruit" will come after, and provide evidence that this is a true conversion.

But "works" are totally and completly EXCLUDED from attaining salvation and/or justification.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Faith without works is dead even at its inception. The kind of faith that comes from God is a faith that works by love. It is never ALONE.

I can see that you are a strong believer in "sola fide," a doctrine I taught for nearly 30 years. I no longer subscribe to this doctrine.

 

[Alive in Christ]

A dsciplinedlearner...

I can see that you are a strong believer in "sola fide," a doctrine I taught for nearly 30 years. I no longer subscribe to this doctrine.

Thats tragic. You have forsaken the true gospel for a false one.

That doesnt necessarily mean you are lost of course, but you have become "shipwrecked' regarding the gospel.

It is never ALONE.

It is at its inception. Later, the fruit will become evident.

You are teaching the "faith+works" heretical doctrine.

Be wise. Re-think this.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Faith without works is dead even at its inception. The kind of faith that comes from God is a faith that works by love. It is never ALONE.

I can see that you are a strong believer in "sola fide," a doctrine I taught for nearly 30 years. I no longer subscribe to this doctrine.

You don't know the difference between the object of faith and the nature of faith. Faith justifies no one, saves no one and never will. The ACT of faith justifies no one, saves no one and never will. Demons have faith and have works and they will never be saved.

It is the object of faith that justifies and this is made abundantly clear in Romans 3:24-26. - "faith IN his blood" and "beleiving IN Christ." The gospel REVEALS the righteousness of God found in Christ as the proper OBJECT of faith (Rm. 1:17).

Romans 3:27 gives you one of two alternatives of how anyone can be justified - not three or four but only two and then rules out one leaving only one true alternative.

1. The law of works
2. The law of faith

The law of works is stated in Romans 2:6 "according to his deeds." This is how the law of works justifies. However, Paul denies this "law" as a valid law for justifying anyone.

The law of faith is stated in Romans 3:24-26 as obtaining justification by simply the OBJECT of faith "faith IN his blood" and "believing IN Christ"

Therefore, if the "law of works" is elminated then that leaves justification by "the law of faith" ONLY or ALONE - thus justification by faith ALONE.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Jesus did not teach justification/salvation by faith ALONE. This is my first reason for turning from this doctrine.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Jesus did not teach justification/salvation by faith ALONE. This is my first reason for turning from this doctrine.

Poor reason because Romans 3:27 gives you just TWO option for justification "by the law of works" or "by the law...of faith" and it excludes your option and that leaves on justification "by the law....of faith" ALONE as the only standing option.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Jesus did not teach justification/salvation by faith ALONE.

Jesus taught....

He who believes in me...

Belief. Faith.

... he who believes in me, as the scriptures have said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water

Also...

God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life

Paul taught....

It is by grace that you are saved, through faith. And that not of yourself, it is the gift of God...not of works, lest anyone should boast

Of course i could go on and on...

 

[Matt Black]

You're being rather selective there, aren't you?

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Yes, we must look at everything Jesus taught about justification/salvation. He did teach justification/salvation by faith, but not by faith ALONE.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Yes, we must look at everything Jesus taught about justification/salvation. He did teach justification/salvation by faith, but not by faith ALONE.

Jesus taught justification in Christ alone as the sole object of faith. Since it is the object of faith that justifies not the action of faith or the fruits of faith then justification is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works. Will you agree that Jesus taught that justification is in Christ alone as the sole object of Faith (Jn. 14:6)? Justification is not IN the nature of faith or the ACT of faith or the FRUITS of faith but in the person and redemptive work of Christ.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

You are not taking into account EVERYTHING Jesus taught about justification/salvation. Consequently, you believe in and preach a truncated gospel.

 

[Dr. Walter]

You are not taking into account EVERYTHING Jesus taught about justification/salvation. Consequently, you believe in and preach a truncated gospel.

When I take in the person and work of Jesus Christ I have taken in the WHOLE provision of redemption. When I say that Jesus Christ is the SOLE object of faith and deny that faith as an action, the fruit of faith justifies but only the object of faith justifies I have embraced the total gospel and provision for redemption "in Christ Jesus."

However, when you deny that the person and Christ is the TOTAL provision of redemption and thus the complete propiation/satisfaction of the violated righteousness of God and ADD your works or the act or fruits of faith to justify you then you have repudiated Christ ALONE as the sufficient and complete propitiation/satisfaction of God's righteousness in behalf of sinners. Justification is by faith "IN" the sole object of redemption - Jesus Christ.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

The ground or basis of our salvation is the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. There are, however, many conditions for entering into and remaining in this salvation.

 

[Dr. Walter]

The ground or basis of our salvation is the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. There are, however, many conditions for entering into and remaining in this salvation.

You have chosen the refuge of theological semantics to escape that justification is in Christ ALONE and his faithfulness ALONE in behalf of sinners is the sole basis and object of faith and that such faith is merely an empty hand that grasps that object and therefore neither the act or fruits of faith justify anyone.

You have chosen the refuge of theologicall trickery to escape the fact that we obtain and maintain justification "freely by his grace" which faith is begun, sustained and finished by God's grace as God's gift to his elect in order that justification is "sure to all the seed"

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

You are quickly straying from what Jesus Himself taught about justification/salvation and running toward what you think Paul taught about justification/salvation. First, look at EVERYTHING Jesus taught.

 

[Dr. Walter]

You are quickly straying from what Jesus Himself taught about justification/salvation and running toward what you think Paul taught about justification/salvation. First, look at EVERYTHING Jesus taught.

Paul is the chosen representative by Christ to be the interpreter of the gospel of Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:8-16). I will take Paul's interpretation of Christ and His gospel OVER your interpretation of Christ and His gospel any day of the week.

The very insinuation that YOU and YOUR interpretation want to replace an inspired man's intepretation is not only absurd but blasphemous.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

I do not object to Paul's teachings about justification/salvation, only to your interpretation of his teachings.

Our understanding of justification/salvation should start with EVERYTHING Jesus taught about it. He is the fullness of God's revelation to man.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I do not object to Paul's teachings about justification/salvation, only to your interpretation of his teachings.

Our understanding of justification/salvation should start with EVERYTHING Jesus taught about it. He is the fullness of God's revelation to man.

No, you not only object interpreting Christ by Paul but you object to Paul's own interpretation of Christ in regard to justification.

Paul gives only two models or "laws" of justification to choose from in Romans 3:27

1. The law of works = "according to his deeds" (Rom. 2:6)

2. The law of Faith = "faith IN his blood" "believing IN Christ" - Rom. 3:24-26

He elminates your choice which is the first and that leaves on the justification by the "law of faith" ALONE or ONLY. Read and weep and then repent my friend of your error as Paul eliminated your option as heresy.

 

[DHK]

You are quickly straying from what Jesus Himself taught about justification/salvation and running toward what you think Paul taught about justification/salvation. First, look at EVERYTHING Jesus taught.

What Jesus said is recorded in four gospels of the NT. Did you just dump in the garbage the rest of the NT, all 23 books? It sounds like it.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

If we start with what our Lord and Saviour taught, this does not mean the rest of the Bible is unimportant.