BINGO! Agree totally.
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The Children whom God hath given me
- Thread starter Iconoclast
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BINGO! Agree totally.
Everyone has explained to you that the crosswork actually saves,,,it was actual not potential. Rippon has pointed out that many live and die in their sins not having even heard about Jesus......the wages of their sins is eternal separation , the second death. Only the Children given by the Father to the Son will be saved.
So do you both believe we can lose our salvation?
Everytime we sin we lose fellowship with God and He will not hear our prayers until we confess those sins. Salvation is never lost once saved always saved, but fellowship and the filling of the Spirit are lost when we sin.
Confession restores fellowship and we are filled with the Spirit once again.
Ephesians 5:18
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
don't allow sin to control but let the Spirit control therefore practice 1 John 1:9.
I've no idea how you derive that from what I've posted. There are NO eternal consequences ever for His children.
Those who are in unbelief are not saved, you agreed with someone that when you sin you are an unbeliever that would mean either you believe you lose your salvation or you were never saved.
Really?
For the record, this is what I said:
Certainly, in witnessing to another, it is not wrong to say: "Christ died for you."
Now what did the Apostles say:
Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
--Christ has suffered (died)
--Therefore repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out.
IOW, Christ died for you.
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
--His death was not in vain. It was for you.
Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
--The death and resurrection of Christ was the main theme of the Apostles. They preached Christ every where they went. Christ died for them (the unsaved). Many believed as a result.
What I detest is dishonesty. The J.W.'s, Mormons, and SDA's that come to my door and try and hide their identity. It is dishonest. Those that do are not upfront and honest to who they are talking to.
Many Calvinists are the same way. You have your confession of faith that you boldly proclaim and quote from many times on this board (Westminster CoF).
What does it teach? If you are consistent in your Calvinism you believe, as it teaches:
1. God has elected some for eternal glory,
2. God has reprobated the rest for eternal damnation.
There is the doctrine of predestination: election and reprobation. There is no such thing as free will. Why not explain that (the tenets of your faith) before telling the person of Christ and His salvation. I doubt if he will even want to hear about Christ if you tell him what you really believe first. Be truthful.
The most profound thing you have ever said. :sleep:
I said:
But herein is the truth. Christ died for all; not that all would be saved,
But what you stated is more of a philosophy.
Over and over again Christ states his will:
1Tim.2:4--His will "all men to be saved."
1Jn.2:2--he is the propitiation for the sins of all the world."
His will: that all should come to repentance.
His will: that none should perish.
--His will is clear and clearly stated. Some have chosen to believe as the Bible demonstrates, and others chose to reject his offer of salvation, as the Bible so clearly shows us.
He came to seek and to save the lost which is ALL of mankind.
He gave himself for all the world.
He came into the world that whoever believes on him should be saved.
No one can be saved without faith. Remember sola fide?
He that believeth not shall be damned. It is their choice.
When were the sheep's names written in the Lamb's Book of Life? Hint. The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.[Rev. 17:8] I have heard it said 'that once I believed and was saved, God took and wrote my name in the Lamb's Book of Life'. I want someone to point me to that passage of scripture that states it in that manner.
There is not one sin that the saved have committed, past, present, and future, that Christ did not atone for. If you, I, Iconoclast, or any other member here, have one sin that Christ did not pay for, then we're doomed to the second death. Christ paid our sin debt in full, including the sin of unbelief.
No one on here has said this, or I have not read someone stating it.
Wrong. In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says, “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”[Heb. 12:4-6]
When we sin, He comes after us and does this Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far away. God chastens us when we sin. Why? Because He loves us. We never lose fellowship with God, our Father, because He is ever our Father and we, His son. Nothing can change that. As the Romanist writer wrote For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.[Rom. 8:38,39]
Confession proves we still have fellowship. If a professed believer lives in sin without any sign of repentance, it is telling their walk with God is false. True believers will repent of their sins. This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.[1Jn 1:5-10] Our walk shows the world if we are of the faith or not.
Let the Spirit control? Huh? I am thankful for One who when I sin, doesn't cut me off. Nay, He goes after me. “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.'[Lu 15:4-6] Let the Spirit control? When I sin, He comes after me and brings me back. Not because I was cut off at that point, but because I am His, and He loves me enough to correct me when I am wrong and brings me back. But I never loose fellowship with God.
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Only those who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved scripture is clear on that. Name someone you have full knowledge of who has died not having heard about a savior coming?
The wages of sin is death the bible is clear, Christ died paying the penalty for sin and yet those who believe not suffer the second death. Because they are condemned why are they condemned to the Lake of fire,Jesus said because they have not believed on the only begotten Son of God. No where did Jesus say they are condemned because of the sin they committed, if that were true we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
But Christ became the propitiation that is the Satisfactory payment for sin. Whose sin those of the believe but not for ours only but the sins of the whole world "kosmou" that can be nothing but all of mankind.
Kosmou from Strongs #6 "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ"
Chirst is the propitaiton for the whole ungodly multitude 1 John 2:2 is saying.
Then we see 1 Timothy 4:9-11
"9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
11 These things command and teach."
The Greek word for all "pas" each and every or individual, men is "anthropon" humans, He is the savior of all humans especially those that believe. Those who reap the benefits of His propitiation. All have His salvation available but not all accept it therefore again the atonement of Christ is unlimited. The yare condemened because they fail to believe. The word in the Greek for belived in John 3:18 is "pisteuo" meaning to think to be true to be persuaded, so those who are condemned already are condemned because they are not fully persuaded that Jesus is the propitiatory sacrifice the savior.
Confession restores fellowship. Do you believe that if you are living in sin as a believer God will hear your prayer request?
The only thing God will hear is when you confess sin and He forgives that sin and cleanses you from all unrighteousness. What is unrighteousness it is sin of course but if we confess sin those are the sins we know we have committed so what is the unrighteousness those are the sins we commit not realizing they are sin. Could be a sin of omission something in which God lead us to do and we failed to carry it out we omitted to carry out His will. Many things we do are sins and sometimes we just don't realize they are sins. But they will lead us to commit a sin of commission that one we know we have committed. When we confess our known sins God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (unknown sins to us). God will only hear our confession He will not answer our prayers when we are walking in sin that is out of fellowship with Him.
God doesn't cut us off but He will not hear or grant our prayer request while we walk in sin.
Be ye filled with the Spirit Paul said how are we filled with the Spirit when we are under His control. Be not drunk with wine where in is excess, don't be under the influence or control of anything other than the Spirit. How do we stay under the control of the Spirit by confessing sin the moment we commit that sin we should never let sin linger for it will lead God to bring Chastisement upon us.
Let me ask you something on this point, you say "But I never loose fellowship with God" what does Paul tell the Corinthians to do to the man in gross sin? What do churches do when someone is living in gross sin, they will not allow them to attend church it is called church discipline they are put out of the fellowship still saved still a child of God. How is fellowship restored for those people, when they confess that is, admit their wrong doing and repent of it. Then fellowship is restored, God is the same way, Fellowship is lost when we commit sin that is God will not bless, He will not hear our prayers other than the ones where we are naming the sin one by one to Him, He will chasten us when we are away. But if we confess our sins immediately we can avoid chastening, we will be filled with the Spirit. Understand something here we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit at salvation our body becomes His Temple and He will always indwell us, we are also filled with the Spirit that is under His control the moment we are saved, but Paul says in Ephesians 5:18 to be filled with the Spirit that means we can be or we can't be, sin causes us to not be under the Control (filling) of the Holy Spirit. Confession of sin restores the Spirits control (filling) and then God will hear our prayer request, we will have His Blessings in our lives, we will have a walk with Him and find His purpose and will for our lives. When we are living in sin we don't desire those things, but He brings conviction and chastening upon us to get us to return to Him.
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You are missing my point, I am afraid. Go back and reread my last post, please. Confession of sins shows that there is still fellowship with God. If someone says they are of God, yet live in sin without any sign of repentance whatsoever, that shows that their profession is false. When we sin, the Spirit comes to us and wears us out. Not because He is being cruel, but because He loves us. God chastens His children, those He loves. This is why He chastens us No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.[Heb. 12:11] And They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.[Heb. 12:10] And Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.[Rev. 3:19]
God goes and chastens you, brings you to repentance and you confess your sins. Every time I sin, I know it, and He lets me know it 'loud and clear'. He is as subtle as a slap in the face. He brings me to repentance.
Please clarify 'walk in sin'. Are we talking days, months, years?
When we sin, we get chastened. When we did wrong, our parents chastened us, too. Works the same way.
God is ever with me. When I sleep, He's there. When I get up, He's there. When I am driving, He's there, all the time living inside of such a vile person as I am right now. When I sin, He makes no bones about, and corrects me, chastens me, shows me I am in the wrong. I repent of my sins. And He is If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.[1 Jn 1:9] And no, I am not advocating a sinless life. But when I sin, He comes and 'shakes, rattles, and rolls' me.
I want to focus solely on this portion of your post here. I completely agree with you in regards to this post. But the question remains 'how, and why, do people call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved?' As the Romanist wrote For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified.[Rom. 10:10a] We know that according to Jeremiah the prophet The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?[17:9] How then can this heart that is 'beyond cure' 'call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved'? He does this I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.[Ez. 11:19] and I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.[Ez. 36:26] Where does this come from? Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”[Jn 3:3]
You think a sinner dead in transgressions and sins[Eph 2:1], with a sin darkened heart can call out to God. In fact, God must first act upon the sinner, quicken him to life, and in this quickening, the gifts of faith and repentance are given so they can be exercised.
I have read numerous times about the lifeboat scenario, and that is wrong, so horribly wrong. That sinner isn't drowning, he is dead. He is floating on top of the water with his face looking at the bottom of the lake. He has flies circling around him, the stench of death all over him. God must bring him onboard the boat, perform Spiritual-CPR, and bring him to life. When life is given, the heart starts pumping again, the lungs inflate and deflate, inflate and deflate. If you have surgery and you flat-line and they perform CPR on you and resuscitate you, you had not one whit to do with it. But you think you can thwart God bringing you to life. You can no more stop the Spiritual birth than you could stop them from performing CPR on you on the surgical table.
The ransom Christ paid is not to the sinner. His death was not to pay the sinner anything. It is to pay his(sinners) debt to God. God accepts the payment not the sinner. The sinner cannot refuse the payment because the payment is not to them.
"Those who are in unbelief are bound for eternal damnation". That's what you mean, right?
From the same epistle of the OP:
12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God: Heb 3
4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Heb 6
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses:
29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb 10
So what's your spin on these that fell away with 'an evil heart of unbelief'?
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Like Felix and Agrippa, they came close, very close to salvation ... almost ... but were not saved.
Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
HankD
Yet another denial of the obvious!
Our hilasterion is not the lid of the ark of the covenant, it is Christ Himself. Please address this truth. Christ is our propitiation or means of salvation.
Our propitiation is Christ! Christ is the means of our salvation.
So they're not as described in the text, i.e., brethren, partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God, received the knowledge of the truth, sanctified by the blood of the covenant, the LORD's people?
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The cross is not our propitiation, Christ is!
Calvinism denies those who were not saved, were bought with Christ's blood. If you deny this, Sir, then you are bearing false witness.
DHK
In post 146 you offer three sections from Acts.......not one of those sections says Christ died for you.
You try and make the Apostles say that......when you state......in other words. .....but they did not say it at all. This is the same problem that you do here everyday. You try and make people say what they did not say.
The apostles did speak of sin and repentance to the believing ones....yes...just like I said.....but they NEVER told any random person that Christ died for them.read it again....also baptists use the London Baptist confession of faith....
The wcf is the Presbyterian confession.
I tell people the truth all the time....even you.lol
In post 146 you offer three sections from Acts.......not one of those sections says Christ died for you.
You try and make the Apostles say that......when you state......in other words. .....but they did not say it at all. This is the same problem that you do here everyday. You try and make people say what they did not say.
The apostles did speak of sin and repentance to the believing ones....yes...just like I said.....but they NEVER told any random person that Christ died for them.read it again....also baptists use the London Baptist confession of faith....
The wcf is the Presbyterian confession.
I tell people the truth all the time....even you.lol
DHK
Repeating those same 3 or 4 verses out of context does not make them say any different.
I notice you have still not addressed the Covenant Children being discussed here....did you like AW Pinks clarification?
Not one of you can refute it....try in vain as you do.....deflect to other verses other topics
But no answer post after post.
Repeating those same 3 or 4 verses out of context does not make them say any different.
I notice you have still not addressed the Covenant Children being discussed here....did you like AW Pinks clarification?
Not one of you can refute it....try in vain as you do.....deflect to other verses other topics
But no answer post after post.
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