The Children whom God hath given me

[SovereignGrace]

Adam and Noah preached the gospel to them before they were scattered. And some of them were believers and what was preached a savior coming. That is what Adam was Promised that is what He passed down through the generations. That is how Job a contemporary of Abram believed. That is how Enoch walked with God and was not. Fathers passed the gospel down to their children and some believed, when they were scattered that gospel went with them. God always has remnant among mankind.

This is so far off, it is scary. The peoples were scattered throughout the world after God confounded their languages in Genesis 11. Pick up in Genesis 12 where God calls out a pagan worshipper named Abram, who lived in a pagan land called Ur. It is through Abram(later Abraham) that the promises were, and are, given to.

 

[revmwc]

Adam and Noah preached the gospel to them before they were scattered. And some of them were believers and what was preached a savior coming. That is what Adam was Promised that is what He passed down through the generations. That is how Job a contemporary of Abram believed. That is how Enoch walked with God and was not. Fathers passed the gospel down to their children and some believed, when they were scattered that gospel went with them. God always has remnant among mankind.

Genesis 11:5-9,
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

From this scattering we have all the peoples of the world. Those at this point who were scattered knew of Adam and Eve, Noah, even CAin and Able. They had been taught of Noah and the flood and that a savior was yet to come.

The American Indians came from this scattering as di the Asian peoples and the peoples of Africa and all over the world for God scattered "them abroad upon the face of all the earth."

With them went the promise that a savior was coming a remnant of believers with all people. Their gospel was to look for and believe a savior was coming who would crush satan's head and bring to them salvation. Adam and Eve believed it, Abel and Seth believed it Enoch Believed it and Noah and His family all believed in a savior to come, for those who haven't heard that Jesus came they in Faith are looking for that Savior to Come and that Faith is counted unto them for righteousness just as it was for all O.T. believers.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Adam and Noah preached the gospel to them before they were scattered. And some of them were believers and what was preached a savior coming. That is what Adam was Promised that is what He passed down through the generations. That is how Job a contemporary of Abram believed. That is how Enoch walked with God and was not. Fathers passed the gospel down to their children and some believed, when they were scattered that gospel went with them. God always has remnant among mankind.

Your a dreamer. What scripture says Adam or Noah preached the gospel to the American Indians? That is ridiculous nonsense that you must believe to prop up your false gospel! Also, why even preach the gospel if unbelief in it is what sends one to Hell, wouldn't everyone end up in heaven if the gospel was just not preached?

 

[SovereignGrace]

From this scattering we have all the peoples of the world. Those at this point who were scattered knew of Adam and Eve, Noah, even CAin and Able. They had been taught of Noah and the flood and that a savior was yet to come.

The American Indians came from this scattering as di the Asian peoples and the peoples of Africa and all over the world for God scattered "them abroad upon the face of all the earth."

With them went the promise that a savior was coming a remnant of believers with all people. Their gospel was to look for and believe a savior was coming who would crush satan's head and bring to them salvation. Adam and Eve believed it, Abel and Seth believed it Enoch Believed it and Noah and His family all believed in a savior to come, for those who haven't heard that Jesus came they in Faith are looking for that Savior to Come and that Faith is counted unto them for righteousness just as it was for all O.T. believers.

and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”[Gen. 22:18]

It was through Isaac, and not Ishmael that the promises flowed. It was through Jacob and not Esau these promises flow. Study up my Brother, study up.

 

[revmwc]

Your a dreamer. What scripture says Adam or Noah preached the gospel to the American Indians? That is ridiculous nonsense that you must believe to prop up your false gospel! Also, why even preach the gospel if unbelief in it is what sends one to Hell, wouldn't everyone end up in heaven if the gospel was just not preached?

Did Adam and Noah preach the gospel to their offspring?

Well Cain rejected it by offering the wrong sacrifice, Abel offered awhat God commanded why did they offer sacrifices to God because Adam preached to them or taught it to them.

Shem, Ham and Japheth all went through the flood all 8 people on the Ark are said to have been saved. They preached just as Noah did the truth of God and savior. Therefore those in turn who believed passed it down to their Children. Each generation of believers would pass it down to other generations so that their would be a remnant of believers with all people groups. That would include the American Indians, who had stories of a great Father who went through a flood all peoples groups had that story that I have heard of. That means there would be those who had knowledge and believed a savior would come. God has ways of speaking to people in all generations.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Did Adam and Noah preach the gospel to their offspring?

Well Cain rejected it by offering the wrong sacrifice, Abel offered awhat God commanded why did they offer sacrifices to God because Adam preached to them or taught it to them.

Shem, Ham and Japheth all went through the flood all 8 people on the Ark are said to have been saved. They preached just as Noah did the truth of God and savior. Therefore those in turn who believed passed it down to their Children. Each generation of believers would pass it down to other generations so that their would be a remnant of believers with all people groups. That would include the American Indians, who had stories of a great Father who went through a flood all peoples groups had that story that I have heard of. That means there would be those who had knowledge and believed a savior would come. God has ways of speaking to people in all generations.

Ok, how come we have no historical accounts from any of the first missionaries preaching to the American Indians with the Indians responding by saying, "yes I already know of Jesus"? Also, why preach the gospel to anyone as if what you say is true, that unbelief in the gospel alone is what damns one to Hell? Further, what about those who cannot understand the gospel as preached by the preacher, such as infants dying in infancy and the mentally handicap, do they all go to Hell or does your system have a separate means of salvation for them, if so, what is it and what is the scripture to support it?

Brother Joe

 

[revmwc]

This is so far off, it is scary. The peoples were scattered throughout the world after God confounded their languages in Genesis 11. Pick up in Genesis 12 where God calls out a pagan worshipper named Abram, who lived in a pagan land called Ur. It is through Abram(later Abraham) that the promises were, and are, given to.

Abram would have heard the truth of God from a fellow named Eber do the history and I believe you will find Eber was still alive when Abram was born. Also where did Job and his three friends here of God if the world of Abram's time was nothing but Pagan as you say.

The bible shows us answers to all our questions we just need to read it to find them.

Job and his three friends lived around the time of Abram there are 4 who believe and Job was the priest of the family and offered sacrifices for His Children not to a pagan god but to the same God who called Abram out. Where would Job have heard the gospel? From His father and so on down to Noah and then down to Adam.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The land reached by Matthew in the 1st century.

Where is some documented proof?

Scholars have noted that in China there is no clear boundary between religions, especially Buddhism, Taoism and local folk religious practice. According to the most recent demographic analyses, an average 30—80% of the population in China, that is hundreds of millions of people, practice some kinds of Chinese folk religions and Taoism, 10—16% are Buddhists, 2—4% are Christians, and 1—2% are Muslims. In addition to Han people's local religious practices, there are also various ethnic minority groups in China who maintain their traditional autochthone religions. Various sects of indigenous origin gather 2—3% of the population, while Confucianism as a religious self-designation is popular among intellectuals.

Boy that stuck with them if Matthew reached them with the gospel, if...

With a population of ~1.133 BILLION people per their 2010 census, that is a sobering thought that only 2-4% of them are christian.

This is per wiki, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[revmwc]

Ok, how come we have no historical accounts from any of the first missionaries preaching to the American Indians with the Indians responding by saying, "yes I already know of Jesus"? Also, why preach the gospel to anyone as if what you say is true, that unbelief in the gospel alone is what damns one to Hell? Further, what about those who cannot understand the gospel as preached by the preacher, such as infants dying in infancy and the mentally handicap, do they all go to Hell or does your system have a separate means of salvation for them, if so, what is it and what is the scripture to support it?

Brother Joe

Never said they knew Jesus I said they were looking for the Savior the one who was coming and were told He had come. In their belief of a savior who was coming God sent to them and told of the one who had come, their desire for the savior and knowledge through their belief brought word of Jesus who had come.

Acts 18: is a good example,

24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

He knew only of John's baptism but He was saved because he had believed John's message a savior was coming but he hadn't heard of Jesus.

We see too this verse in Acts 19:

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

These were saved they had been Baptized by John the Baptist and yet hadn't heard about Jesus nor the indwelling Holy Spirit but nontheless saved. Then Paul told them it is Jesus who was to come. So there are these we see in Acts and that too is true of those whose forfathers were part of those scattered.e

 

[SovereignGrace]

Abram would have heard the truth of God from a fellow named Eber do the history and I believe you will find Eber was still alive when Abram was born. Also where did Job and his three friends here of God if the world of Abram's time was nothing but Pagan as you say.

God spoke with Abram directly. He does not do this now.

The bible shows us answers to all our questions we just need to read it to find them.

Yes it does, but not your mystical approach.

Job and his three friends lived around the time of Abram there are 4 who believe and Job was the priest of the family and offered sacrifices for His Children not to a pagan god but to the same God who called Abram out. Where would Job have heard the gospel? From His father and so on down to Noah and then down to Adam.

God also spoke to Job. He does speak to us verbally now as He did then.

God’s Final Word: His Son

Hebrews 1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.[vss 1:4]

 

[kyredneck]

Replacement Theology is a creation of the 4th Century Catholic (State) Church under Constantine.
Suddenly, O.T. verses mean "Spiritual Israel". This only applies to positive verses about "Israel".
The negative verses are interpreted as "symbolic", "metaphorical", etc.

For help in understanding scripture with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, see below:

40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And he that falleth on this stone shall be broken to pieces: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.
45 And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. Mt 21

If that's not being 'replaced' then I guess I don't know the meaning of the word.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Never said they knew Jesus I said they were looking for the Savior the one who was coming and were told He had come. In their belief of a savior who was coming God sent to them and told of the one who had come, their desire for the savior and knowledge through their belief brought word of Jesus who had come.

Brother Revmwc,

So let me get this straight, after Jesus resurrected, but prior to the arrival of European missionaries, there were American Indians who did not know who Jesus was, and died this way, but nevertheless went to eternal glory? Wouldn't this contradict your proof text , "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already..." (John 3:18)? Can you give me one example from scripture of a New Testament Christian who died without ever knowing who Jesus was?

Also, I'll ask for the third post my question that went unanswered-If unbelief in the preached gospel is what damns one to Hell, wouldn't we all be better off if the gospel was not preached? Moreover, isn't the gospel then actually damning more people to Hell, then it is saving, as the majority of people don't even believe it?The World Factbook gives the population as 7,095,217,980 (July 2013 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 31.50% (of which Roman Catholic 16.85%, Protestant 6.15%, Orthodox 3.96%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 23.20% (of which Sunni 75-90%, Shia 10-20%, Ahmadi 1%), Hindu 13.8%, Buddhist 6.77%, Sikh 0.35%, Jewish 0.22%, Baha'i 0.11%, other religions 10.95%, non-religious 9.66%, atheists 2.01% (2010 est.Thus per the statistics above and your belief that everyone on earth dies having heard the gospel, at least 68.5% of the world is damned due to unbelief in the gospel, wouldn't these folks be better off had the gospel never been preached to them? I guess the gospel saves about 30% and damns about 70% in your system, yet you still classify Jesus's mission as a "success"? I think you should just stop preaching the gospel as you are probably damning more people to Hell than you are saving due to their unbelief.

Also, for the second time I will post my other question, what about the mentally handicap, infants dying in infancy, and those aborted unable to understand and believe the gospel as preached by man, do they all go to hell? If not, how do they get to heaven, do you have a separate means of salvation outside of the gospel for these people, if so, what scriptures can you provide to support it?


Brother Joe

 

[SovereignGrace]

Never said they knew Jesus I said they were looking for the Savior the one who was coming and were told He had come. In their belief of a savior who was coming God sent to them and told of the one who had come, their desire for the savior and knowledge through their belief brought word of Jesus who had come.

Huh? Documented proof please.

Acts 18: is a good example,


He knew only of John's baptism but He was saved because he had believed John's message a savior was coming but he hadn't heard of Jesus.

We see too this verse in Acts 19:



These were saved they had been Baptized by John the Baptist and yet hadn't heard about Jesus nor the indwelling Holy Spirit but nontheless saved. Then Paul told them it is Jesus who was to come. So there are these we see in Acts and that too is true of those whose forfathers were part of those scattered.e

These people had heard the gospel. You are stretching the text way beyond its elasticity.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Acts 18: is a good example,


He knew only of John's baptism but He was saved because he had believed John's message a savior was coming but he hadn't heard of Jesus.

We see too this verse in Acts 19:



These were saved they had been Baptized by John the Baptist and yet hadn't heard about Jesus nor the indwelling Holy Spirit but nontheless saved. Then Paul told them it is Jesus who was to come. So there are these we see in Acts and that too is true of those whose forfathers were part of those scattered.e

I agree these individuals you cited in Acts were saved prior to hearing the preached gospel of Jesus being resurrected, but they eventually heard of the good news of Jesus's resurrection before they died, yet it seems your asserting there are American Indian folks who died without ever knowing who Jesus was, yet end up in eternal glory.

Brother Joe

 

[SovereignGrace]

Quoted by BrotherJoseph:

Also, I'll ask for the third post my question that went unanswered-If unbelief in the preached gospel is what damns one to Hell, wouldn't we all be better off if the gospel was not preached?

Please address this mwc...

 

[BrotherJoseph]

40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And he that falleth on this stone shall be broken to pieces: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.
45 And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. Mt 21



If that's not being 'replaced' then I guess I don't know the meaning of the word.

Good post brother KYRedneck! :thumbsup: I wonder how he will try to refute that one?!

 

[SovereignGrace]

I agree these individuals you cited in Acts were saved prior to hearing the preached gospel of Jesus being resurrected, but they eventually heard of the good news of Jesus's resurrection before they died, yet it seems your asserting there are American Indian folks who died without ever knowing who Jesus was, yet end up in eternal glory.

Brother Joe

They heard the gospel of repentance to God.

“You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”[Matt. 3:7-12]

He came to prepare a people for Christ. And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”[Lu. 1:17]

 

[BrotherJoseph]

They heard the gospel of repentance to God.

“You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”[Matt. 3:7-12]

He came to prepare a people for Christ. And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”[Lu. 1:17]

Brother Sovereign

Yes, Apollos did hear a portion of the gospel from John the Baptist, and later on in Acts Priscilla and Aquila preaches the full gospel to him concerning who Jesus is, "26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly,shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ. " (Acts 18:26-28)

Both Apollos and Cornelius are examples in the book of Acts proving that one is born again prior to hearing the gospel. I guess the RevMWC accidentally just helped to prove one of our points with his own example. Though he believes in "gospel regeneration", he just disproved "gospel regeneration" with the example of Apollos.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I disagree with you and your anti-gospel regeneration belief. Not trying to start an argue or to derail this thread, just wanting to let you know my stance.


revmwc has dug himself into a hole, and we're giving him a bigger shovel. The indians never even had a bible until the mid-1600's and he still thinks they knew about Jesus, or some 'higher power'. When he ran out of scriptural support, he started using mystical means and 'God coulds.'

 

[BrotherJoseph]

I disagree with you and your anti-gospel regeneration belief. Not trying to start an argue or to derail this thread, just wanting to let you know my stance.


revmwc has dug himself into a hole, and we're giving him a bigger shovel. The indians never even had a bible until the mid-1600's and he still thinks they knew about Jesus, or some 'higher power'. When he ran out of scriptural support, he started using mystical means and 'God coulds.'

Brother Sovereign,

I won't get into the "gospel regeneration" debate with you at this time so as to now derail this thread. Yes I agree, it appears the good rev had dug himself a hole.