The Christ of RCC is the Son of Lucifer

[Walter]

So please realise form the point of view of Evangelical chrsitians such as myself, the RCC viewpoints on baptism are wrong, on salvation wrong, as you would deny it being the Cross of chrsit being the source/basis of that, but instead that God dribbles and mediates out towards us by/in the sacraments!


Why is it do hard to accept the great news that God has fully and freely forgiven, justified forever all who call upon jesus, thru faith, and have etrnl life in his name, instead of obligation to this long proces that still has no assurance of being saved in the end?

I think it is worth noting that the relationship between baptism and salvation was so widely accepted and understood even in ancient times that the ancient Adoptionists, who held that Jesus the man "became" God's son at His baptism, likely believed in it as well, it INFORMING their understanding of the meaning of Jesus' baptism. But they looked at the relationship in the wrong direction. They looked at how we become children of God - through water baptism - and reasoned that at His own baptism Christ became the son of God. Whereas the correct understanding was indeed that we become children of God in water baptism because it unites us to Christ in His baptism, which in HIS case, signifies His eternal sonship rather than it being the case that it "starts" it as in Adoptionist thought.

Christians have always interpreted the Bible literally when it declares, "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 3:21; cf. Acts 2:38, 22:16, Rom. 6:3–4, Col. 2:11–12). The Baptist's "symbolic" view of baptism is a historical newcomer.

Christians have also always realized that the necessity of water baptism is a normative rather than an absolute necessity. There are exceptions to water baptism: It is possible to be saved through "baptism of blood," martyrdom for Christ, or through "baptism of desire", that is, an explicit or even implicit desire for baptism.

1 John 5 clearly refers to both baptism of water and baptism of blood. The existence of the latter does not call into question the existence of the former. If baptism of blood happens "first" then baptism of water is never going to happen.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I think it is worth noting that the relationship between baptism and salvation was so widely accepted and understood even in ancient times that the ancient Adoptionists, who held that Jesus the man "became" God's son at His baptism, likely believed in it as well, it INFORMING their understanding of the meaning of Jesus' baptism. But they looked at the relationship in the wrong direction. They looked at how we become children of God - through water baptism - and reasoned that at His own baptism Christ became the son of God. Whereas the correct understanding was indeed that we become children of God in water baptism because it unites us to Christ in His baptism, which in HIS case, signifies His eternal sonship rather than it being the case that it "starts" it as in Adoptionist thought.

Christians have always interpreted the Bible literally when it declares, "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 3:21; cf. Acts 2:38, 22:16, Rom. 6:3–4, Col. 2:11–12). The Baptist's "symbolic" view of baptism is a historical newcomer.

Christians have also always realized that the necessity of water baptism is a normative rather than an absolute necessity. There are exceptions to water baptism: It is possible to be saved through "baptism of blood," martyrdom for Christ, or through "baptism of desire", that is, an explicit or even implicit desire for baptism.

1 John 5 clearly refers to both baptism of water and baptism of blood. The existence of the latter does not call into question the existence of the former. If baptism of blood happens "first" then baptism of water is never going to happen.

It's sad to see that you have swallowed false doctrine hook, line, and sinker.

We do not become children of God through water baptism. Any who believe that are still in their sins.

Concerning the second part I bolded: That is simply not true.

Baptismal regeneration is one of the worst false doctrines ever invented by man. It gives a person a false sense of security. It has done great harm to the body of Christ.

 

[Walter]

It's sad to see that you have swallowed false doctrine hook, line, and sinker.

We do not become children of God through water baptism. Any who believe that are still in their sins.

Concerning the second part I bolded: That is simply not true.

Baptismal regeneration is one of the worst false doctrines ever invented by man. It gives a person a false sense of security. It has done great harm to the body of Christ.

I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think you would say that "things changed" and, essentially, that being "born again", a core theme in the doctrine of salvation, was misunderstood almost as soon as the apostolic age ended! Oh, but 1,500 years later the reformers figured it out from a careful reading of the Scriptures that were written by the very people who taught (some face-to-face!) those that supposedly completely missed the real point. IMHO, absurd! To my knowledge, there are no Church Fathers that disagree with baptismal regeneration. You would think this would have been debated at some point if, as you seem to suggest, the real belief in a 'symbolic only' baptism got buried. It certainly got buried fast. And quietly!
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-4)
(baptism > baptismal; newness of life > regeneration)

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
(water and the Spirit > baptismal; born > regeneration)

Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word (Eph 5:25-26)
(washing of water with the word > baptismal; cleansed > regeneration)

He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)
(washing > baptismal; regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit > regeneration)

let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. (Heb 10:22)
(bodies washed with pure water > baptismal; hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience > regeneration)


and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses (Col 2:12-13)
(baptism > baptismal; made alive > regeneration)

 

[Eliyahu]

I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think you would say that "things changed" and, essentially, that being "born again", a core theme in the doctrine of salvation, was misunderstood almost as soon as the apostolic age ended! Oh, but 1,500 years later the reformers figured it out from a careful reading of the Scriptures that were written by the very people who taught (some face-to-face!) those that supposedly completely missed the real point. IMHO, absurd! To my knowledge, there are no Church Fathers that disagree with baptismal regeneration. You would think this would have been debated at some point if, as you seem to suggest, the real belief in a 'symbolic only' baptism got buried. It certainly got buried fast. And quietly!
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-4)
(baptism > baptismal; newness of life > regeneration)

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
(water and the Spirit > baptismal; born > regeneration)

Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word (Eph 5:25-26)
(washing of water with the word > baptismal; cleansed > regeneration)

He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)
(washing > baptismal; regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit > regeneration)

let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. (Heb 10:22)
(bodies washed with pure water > baptismal; hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience > regeneration)


and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses (Col 2:12-13)
(baptism > baptismal; made alive > regeneration)

You are revealing your unbelief and fake Christianity by uttering ignorance about the Bible Truth!

Baptismal Regeneration is a great Heresy cheating the billions of people!

Water in John 3:5 means the Words of God which have the cleansing power for the sins, often related with Repentance. Does Water witness anything in 1 John 5:8?

Read Acts 8:36-37

36 ...... what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


Before the Baptism, the Eunuch already confess the Faith. Based on the Faith, Philip baptized him.

This verse contradicts the Baptismal Regeneration and Infant Baptism, and therefore RCC and Orthodox removed this verse from the Bible. However, the passage without verse 37 doesn't make sense, which prove the verse 37 is the part of the genuine Bible.


You brought a right verse which betrays you and denys your own claim, here:

having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word (Eph 5:25-26)

Word of God itself has the power like water to cleanse the sins.


Baptismal Regeneration means that Before Baptism, someone was not born again, but after the Baptism, he or she is born again.

In this process, Catholic are baptizing someone who is not born again, who do not believe the Truth, then such Unbeliever becomes born again believer after the Baptism.

Baptismal Regeneration means Unbelievers Baptism and Believing in Aqua-god!

Baptismal Regeneration is the underlying basis for Infant Baptism which brings billions of Unbelievers into the churches as fake Christians.

Both Baptismal Regeration and Infant Baptism are Heresies!

Believers in such Heresies have no idea about what is the Salvation and Being Born Again!


You are proving again, that RCC is a paganism by insisting on their Aqua-god Belief ! They sprinkle the holy water as if the priests have some special water!

 

[Eliyahu]

So why are you telling us this...we are predominently Baptists. Should you not be charging headlong at the Catholics? The Catholics you see here know all the arguements because they were Baptist's at one time...so you can convince no one here. BTW...they believe in God...they have just mucked up thing with Mary.

There are many Catholic Baptists among Baptists as well.

RCC may contain some True believers but their doctrines and teachings, ceremonies are pagan, and basically they do not believe in God thru Jesus, but believe in their pagan gods! Their trinity is just some gods among their many gods.

They actually consider Mary as their Supreme Goddess, many saints are gods to them. That's why they pray to Mary and to Saints.

Unless they consider the saints as gods who can exist everywhere in the world at any time, their prayers from millions of places would have been useless.

RCC's Christ is different from the True Christ who is now in glory.

Their Christ is stilling hanging on the Cross in their imagination, and therefore they carry the cross with the statue of christ.

Their christ is the son of Luchifer.
Our Christ is the Son of God and will conquer Luchifer ( Lucifer) and will throw Lucifer into the Lake of Fire!

 

[Eliyahu]

The second part of the Babylonian Religion is the following:



1. Local Folk Religion, Shamanism
- Voodoo ( Haiti, New Orleans punished by Earthquake and Katarina)
- Indian Shamanism ( Solar god, Peel off Head skin)
- Zoroastor (Iranian Fire worship)
- Bahaii
- Shinto (Japan) Sun god
- Unification Church ( Moonie)
- Judaism Kabbalah
- Fortune god, Lottery
- And many more

2. Secular Religion
- Scientism (Scientism is different from Science) : Evolution, Raelism, Christian Science
- Gnosis
- Religion of Fornication
- Money worship – Bow down to the money every morning
- Indifference (Zephaniah 1:6)
- Communism ( not to believe in Christianity, Political Religion)
- Sports ( Olympic)
- Totalitarianism
- Dictatorship
- Mass Media ( Political Wizard and Magic= Rev 18:23)
- Movie
- Plays
- Dance : Superstitious
- Art, Sculpture
- Music : Rock’n Roll( Let’s roll the Rock who is Christ), Rolling Stone, New Age Music. Spirit of Satan penetrates into music
- Broadcasting, News Paper, TV – Distort the true facts.
- Manipulation of History – distorting the history so that People believe that Christianity came from Roman Catholic though Roman Catholic deviated from Christianity

3. Penetration into Protestant Religion
Protestants – Many people who were not born again penetrated into Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodists
Legalists inside churches
Satan penetrates the people with the leaven of Roman Catholic into Baptists and Brethren

4. Special Task Forces
Freemason – Starting from Babel Tower Construction
Steer the Ecumenical movement
Illuminati New World Order, Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Rockefeller Rothchild
Opus Dei
Jesuit
Skulls and Bones
KKK,
And Many More
You may add what you know better than I do

All Religion will be united under the leadership of Roman Catholic, because the Head of Roman Religion is Pontifex Maximus which has the Throne of the Satan ( Revelation 2:13)

RCC do not attack care about these groups on the surface, but actually they support all the paganism behind. RCC is the Mastermind of most of the paganism and crimes!

 

[Eliyahu]

Roman Catholic, The Elite, Key Corp.
- Salvation by Grace + Works
- Salvation by baptism ( Baptismal Regeneration)
Baptismal Regeneration means the Salvation by dipping in the water or dropping a few drops of water.
- Infant Baptism ( Unbelievers Baptism bringing the billions of unbelievers into the church)
- Baptism by sprinkling ( Pagan holy water dropped on the forehead) which doesn’t teach the burial of old person and resurrection with Jesus Christ.
Idols
- Idol making for Mary or Joseph or Jesus
- Idol worshipping for those statues
Mary Worship
- Immaculate Conception of Mary
- Perpetual Virginity of Mary
- Assumption : Ascension of Mary
- Theotokos : Mary Mother of God, meaning God the Son of Mary.
- Redemptrix- Co-Redeemer Mary
- Mary as Mother of Church
- Holy Mother Mary
- Queen of Heaven ( Jeremiah 44:17-21)
- Remembering Annunciation
- Clergy system with hierarchy
- Obligatory Celibacy
- Confession to the Priests
- Papacy
- Papal infallibility
- Vicar Christi ( Pope is the Deputy of Christ)
- Holy Papa
- Pontifex Maximus
- Tradition which is different from Bible teachings.
- No Salvation outside Roman Catholic Church
- Purgatory
- Limbo
- Mass which is ever asking forgiveness of the sins without bringing the Gospel that such sins were already forgiven at the Cross. – Rebellion against God
- Mass (Missa) -Repeating the Sacrifice again and again ignoring the True Sacrifice at the Cross
- Transubstantiation ( Magic performance by Catholic Priests) – Eating Blood and Flesh ( Babylonian Priests’ Traition)
- Extreme Unction after death
- Prayer to the Dead
- Prayer thru the Dead
-Prayer for the Dead
- Prayer to Mary
-Pray with Rosario
- all the signs of pagan origin such as Ankh cross, mark of IHS, Threefold hats for the pope, etc.
- Chemarim costumes ( Black costumes used for Idol worshipping priests)- Zephaniah 1:4-6
- Crusade
- Inquisition – Human Body Slaughter House whose CEO have been the Popes

 

[Eliyahu]

Who insist on the Baptismal Regeneration?

Those fake Christians who have no Spiritual Baptism, having no Being Born Again by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There are many Catholic Baptists among Baptists as well.

Your either Catholic or your a Baptist---If you think your both, your a joke.

RCC may contain some True believers but their doctrines and teachings, ceremonies are pagan, and basically they do not believe in God thru Jesus,

Wrong, they believe in Jesus....but they have allowed in pagan ways to entice in the pagans. Let me ask you, do you put up a Christmas Tree every year.....if you do, what do you think that is?

They actually consider Mary as their Supreme Goddess, many saints are gods to them. That's why they pray to Mary and to Saints.

They pray to Mary and the saints as intercessors. However by allowing Mary to work miricals they have userpt the power of the HS from the Holy Spirit & thus insult the Functionality of the Trinity. Personally I believe we have lost allot of the gifts derived from the Holy Spirit. Paul puts this in 1st Thessalonicans 5:19-21, "Quench not the Spirit. despise not prophesying. Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good."

 

[Baptist4life]

Spell check, guys, spell check!! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Walter]

Roman Catholic, The Elite, Key Corp.
- Salvation by Grace + Works
- Salvation by baptism ( Baptismal Regeneration)
Baptismal Regeneration means the Salvation by dipping in the water or dropping a few drops of water.
- Infant Baptism ( Unbelievers Baptism bringing the billions of unbelievers into the church)
- Baptism by sprinkling ( Pagan holy water dropped on the forehead) which doesn’t teach the burial of old person and resurrection with Jesus Christ.
Idols
- Idol making for Mary or Joseph or Jesus
- Idol worshipping for those statues
Mary Worship
- Immaculate Conception of Mary
- Perpetual Virginity of Mary
- Assumption : Ascension of Mary
- Theotokos : Mary Mother of God, meaning God the Son of Mary.
- Redemptrix- Co-Redeemer Mary
- Mary as Mother of Church
- Holy Mother Mary
- Queen of Heaven ( Jeremiah 44:17-21)
- Remembering Annunciation
- Clergy system with hierarchy
- Obligatory Celibacy
- Confession to the Priests
- Papacy
- Papal infallibility
- Vicar Christi ( Pope is the Deputy of Christ)
- Holy Papa
- Pontifex Maximus
- Tradition which is different from Bible teachings.
- No Salvation outside Roman Catholic Church
- Purgatory
- Limbo
- Mass which is ever asking forgiveness of the sins without bringing the Gospel that such sins were already forgiven at the Cross. – Rebellion against God
- Mass (Missa) -Repeating the Sacrifice again and again ignoring the True Sacrifice at the Cross
- Transubstantiation ( Magic performance by Catholic Priests) – Eating Blood and Flesh ( Babylonian Priests’ Traition)
- Extreme Unction after death
- Prayer to the Dead
- Prayer thru the Dead
-Prayer for the Dead
- Prayer to Mary
-Pray with Rosario
- all the signs of pagan origin such as Ankh cross, mark of IHS, Threefold hats for the pope, etc.
- Chemarim costumes ( Black costumes used for Idol worshipping priests)- Zephaniah 1:4-6
- Crusade
- Inquisition – Human Body Slaughter House whose CEO have been the Popes

What a bunch of Hooey!!!

This is on the same level of Chick Publications

I see no point in trying to discuss anything with you, Eliyahu. Regardless of what I post, you choose to ignore it and refuse to engage in any meaningful dialogue. You can go ahead and continue your bash campaign but I'm not going to waste my time with you.

 

[Eliyahu]

What a bunch of Hooey!!!

This is on the same level of Chick Publications

I see no point in trying to discuss anything with you, Eliyahu. Regardless of what I post, you choose to ignore it and refuse to engage in any meaningful dialogue. You can go ahead and continue your bash campaign but I'm not going to waste my time with you.

hhhhhhha!

You are stopping your ears.

Don't you read Revelation?


We all must repudiate from Catholicism, which I am working hard for!

 

[Eliyahu]

Your either Catholic or your a Baptist---If you think your both, your a joke.

There are many Baptists who have been truly born again in the Lord, but have not repudiated from the Catholicism and do not know the Trail of the Blood. While they believe in the Lord, they tolerate the Ecumenical or ECT, Evangelical and Catholic Together. They are Catholic Baptists.

Wrong, they believe in Jesus....but they have allowed in pagan ways to entice in the pagans. Let me ask you, do you put up a Christmas Tree every year.....if you do, what do you think that is?

They believe in Jesus IN VAIN, just with lip service as mentioned in Mt 15:8. Such people killed Jesus!

Christmas means Christ + Mass as Spurgeon pointed out. Mass means Slaughter, Sacrifice, Kill because it came from Missa or Mactatus in Latin.
RCC performs the Sacrifice every week or every day, because they don't believe the Eternal Effect of Jesus' Sacrifice at the Cross ONCE FOR ALL.

Therefore they immitate the Sacrifice every week, and that is the Mass.
I don't do any Mass at all! because I believe the Sacrifice was accomplished at the Cross ONCE FOR ALL.

Christmas means, KILL Christ! RCC is eager to kill Christ, and therefore they celebrate Christmas, and there are many Catholic Baptists who celebrate Christmas as well.

Christmas is pagan, and Easter is the name of Babylonian goddess. I don't believe such paganism!

They pray to Mary and the saints as intercessors. However by allowing Mary to work miricals they have userpt the power of the HS from the Holy Spirit & thus insult the Functionality of the Trinity. Personally I believe we have lost allot of the gifts derived from the Holy Spirit. Paul puts this in 1st Thessalonicans 5:19-21, "Quench not the Spirit. despise not prophesying. Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good."

You are OK here.

 

[Walter]

Well, Revelation has been brought up and seeing how this thread is all over the place, lets see if we can have a meaningful discussion. Here are my thoughts regarding the following passage and a couple of questions:
“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you." (Revelation 3:1-3)
Apparently God is able to see what we do (eg. good works) when it comes to temporal rewards, but when it comes to salvation God only sees what Jesus did. Logically speaking, wouldn't it make more sense to say that God just plain only sees what Jesus did when He looks at us, such that there is absolutely no discrepancy among us when it comes to temporal rewards? And isn't such part of why those of you on the board who are Baptists don't agree with Catholics categorical breakdown between the heavenly saints and ourselves?

 

[Walter]

I think I have explained before what my purpose on this board is about. I'm here to discuss and learn. That means, I abstain from personal attacks, abstain from insults. That does not mean I abstain from confrontation, that is part of learning. I don't back away from confrontation, but I do back away from those who say they want to discuss a topic and then, when they are confronted with facts they cannot refute (like the video posted on this thread) they start what many of us call 'The Doctrinal Dance' in order to bury the subject at hand. Often accusing Catholics of holding to certain beliefs that the Church does not teach or believe. You have a good example of that with the 'copy & paste' Roman Catholic, The Elite, Key Corp. babylonian pagan nonsense Eliyahu posted.

 

[Eliyahu]

I think I have explained before what my purpose on this board is about. I'm here to discuss and learn. That means, I abstain from personal attacks, abstain from insults. That does not mean I abstain from confrontation, that is part of learning. . You have a good example of that with the 'copy & paste' Roman Catholic, The Elite, Key Corp. babylonian pagan nonsense Eliyahu posted.

I didn't make the personal attacks, but the attack unto the paganism! unto the Religion of Babylon, the Religion of Lake of Fire!

However, RCC supporters started to say I am telling lies, Look back there.
I am not telling Lies, but told what is said in the video.
Write down the last portion of the Chanting in Latin if my writing is wrong.

Jesus praised Ephesian Assembly for their hatred against Nicolaitan ( Rev 2:6) RCC is established with the Clergy system which is the Nicolaitan ( Nikolaton = Nikao+ Laos). Jesus hates the behavior and the doctrines of the Nicolaton ( Re 2:6, 15). RCC promotes the Idolatry, Paganism, Coercion resulting in the Inquisition, Goddess Worship, etc.

Actually RCC is a great shopping mall for all the products of Pagan Religion, Polytheisim, Idolatry, Anti-Christianity, Proxy War, Clergy system, Babylonian Confession, etc.


RCC is simply a kind of Training Material which is used for training, disciplining True Christians until the end of the world.
Thru the persecution by RCC, Christians are disciplined and well trained so that they can have stronger faith in the Lord Jesus.
RCC tortured and killed millions of True Christians.

At the end of the training the Christians, the training material will be thrown into the Garbage bin of God which means the Lake of Fire.
The last pope will be thrown into the Lake of Fire first ( Rev 19:20)
Then the followers of the Idol Worship religion will be there.(Rev 20:11-15)

There will be billions of Roman Catholic swiming in the Lake of Fire, sadly!

This is why Rev 18:4 is calling the people belonging to Babylonian Religion.


As I said ,

Babylon Religion was started by Nimrod/Semiramis in Babylon, then
moved to Pergamo ( via Egypt or wherever) ( Rev 2:13) then moved to
Northern Italy by Etruscan, then Julius Caesar became the Supreme High Priest ( Pontifex Maximus- Bridge Builder).
Even at that time Pegamo was quite important for Babylkon Religion, spiritually.
Then that title went down to
Emperor Gratian who handed over the title to Damasus 2 in 382( some say 378).
Therefore the current HQ for Satan, Satan's Throne is in Vatican!

Satan disguise himself as the Angel of the Light ( 2 Cor 11:14).

Why do you try to stay with the Idolatrous Religion?

The Christian Faith is very simple and clear!

Everybody is a sinner, and the sinners cannot go to the Heaven, But God is gracious, and He sent His beloved Son to this world. The Son took over your sin, my sin, all the sins of the world, then He was punished for the sins of the human race, not for His sin, because He had no sin with Himself.
The Blood and Death of Jesus paid all the price for the sins of the Adam's race.

As long as you believe this truth, God regards your faith as your righteousness.

RCC deny this Truth! and therefore everyday or every week, they sacrifice to their gods! by their Mass where they ask their god to forgive their sins, because they don't believe all the sins were already forgiven at the Cross ONCE For ALL!

Instead of reminding the Lay people of the Sacrifice at the Cross 2000 years ago, the Priest of RCC lift up their cookies and chalice claiming that this is the body of Christ, this is the Blood of Christ, which was a method never taught by Jesus.

Jesus offered the True Sacrifice already at the Cross and therefore no more Sacrifice is needed ( Heb 10:17-18)

By performing Mass, RCC is denying the Eternal Effect of Jesus' Sacrifice, then they present their own sacrifice which can never be accepted by God!

God accepts only the Sacrifice by His Beloved Son Jesus Christ!

We can only remember and praise what Jesus Christ has done already at the Cross! This is the True Christianity rejected by the Rome.

Be careful, not to be thrown into the Lake of Fire!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think you would say that "things changed" and, essentially, that being "born again", a core theme in the doctrine of salvation, was misunderstood almost as soon as the apostolic age ended! Oh, but 1,500 years later the reformers figured it out from a careful reading of the Scriptures that were written by the very people who taught (some face-to-face!) those that supposedly completely missed the real point. IMHO, absurd! To my knowledge, there are no Church Fathers that disagree with baptismal regeneration. You would think this would have been debated at some point if, as you seem to suggest, the real belief in a 'symbolic only' baptism got buried. It certainly got buried fast. And quietly!
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-4)
(baptism > baptismal; newness of life > regeneration)

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
(water and the Spirit > baptismal; born > regeneration)

Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word (Eph 5:25-26)
(washing of water with the word > baptismal; cleansed > regeneration)

He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)
(washing > baptismal; regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit > regeneration)

let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. (Heb 10:22)
(bodies washed with pure water > baptismal; hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience > regeneration)


and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses (Col 2:12-13)
(baptism > baptismal; made alive > regeneration)

You are making the scriptures say what you want them to say, not what they actually teach, by reading back Catholic doctrine into them. This is the only way that some Catholic doctrines can be substantiated.

You do not have proof that all church fathers taught baptismal regeneration. Further, those who rely on the fathers act as though the fathers all believed the same thing, and that they were never wrong; they did not all believe the same, and they were quite often wrong. The stream is purest at the source; the farther from the source you get, the more polluted the stream becomes.

And you mention the reformers and say they "figured it out", referring to baptism. I must point out that some of the Magisterial Reformers continued the RC error of baptismal regeneration, and it was the Anabaptists, Baptists, and other free churches who recaptured the biblical doctrine of baptism.

Most Magisterial Protestants and the RCC, like the Jews of Jesus' day, cannot distinguish the physical from the spiritual with regard to the sacraments.

It is very regrettable that there are those who believe an outward ritual produces spiritual birth.

 

[Melanie]

Oh my......what will you think of next?:sleeping_2:

 

[Revmitchell]

Entertaining the op and its author only feeds his ridiculousness.

 

[Eliyahu]

So far, none of you could prove that the following is not in the Chanting:

Flammas Dius Lucifer
Matutmus invenient
Ille, inquam, Lucifer Qui nescit occasum.
Christus Fillus Tuus Qui, regressus ab inferis,
Humano generi serenus illuxit Et vivgt et regnet in saeculorum
Saeculorum

Secondly, none of you could prove my translation of Latin was wrong!

Flaming Lucifer finds mankind, ​

I say oh Lucifer Who will never be defeated. ​

Christ is Thy son who came back from hell( Infernis), shed his peaceful light,
is alive and reigns in the world without end
​

Even now, you can check whether the above was recited and chanted by Roman Catholics in the Video, in the presence of Pope Benedicto 16.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7ioL4HMOY40
​

God is the Judge!