Featured The Church Not a Mystery

Let me ask you a question. If the church was not a mystery then can you give me any non biblical writer before the church age that wrote about the church? If not then why did't anyone know about the church if it was not a mystery?

 

Which is one reason hyperdospensationalists move the start of the Body of Christ forward.

 

The Church was God's plan before He made this world, and Christ completed this at the cross. Even in the OT, there was the church, God's remnant, the ecclesia, the called out assembly.

 

:thumbsup::applause::thumbsup:

 

Please write a short or long commentary on Hosea 1:3-11 concerning who is being spoken of what is being spoken of when events would take place being spoken of, keeping in mind say Jeremiah 3:8. Or any other passages you deem relative. I know Paul quotes some from Hosea.

Were both houses given a bill of divorce? If so, when? Scripture please. If not, why not?


Does the book of Hosea concern reconciliation? If so, in what concept?

While you are at it please address 1 Cor. 10:1. Were those the fathers of the Corinthians who were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea?

For sure that will be spiritualized away.

 

By non biblical I simply meant someone who was a follower and spoke about it. There is nothing revealed anyplace about the church that was discovered or understood until the church was revealed. That makes it a mystery. No teacher or biblical student EVER spoke of the church age prior to the coming of the church. That makes it a mystery. You are denying truth. The church WAS a mystery and even remains today as such for the unconverted Jew. You are in denial my friend.

 

The divided kingdom of Israel was taken captive to Assyria first. Judah was taken to Babylon later. A remnant returned from Persia, I believe, beginning the fulfillment of Jeremiah 3:14-15,18.
Even under Roman bondage, the houses of Judah and Israel were united. However, the remnant of faithful Jews expanded through the apostolic ministry, encompassing people of all nations (Gal 4:25-27 c.f. Jer 3:16-17).

The reconciliation of the remnant of faithful Jews from captivity with God to be sealed with the New Covenant and the expansion of God's people to "all nations."

Yes, they were the fathers of the Corinthians in the same way that Abraham is the father of the Gentile believers through faith. Why is this a problem? You may even call the people who founded the USA as "our founding fathers" even though you may be a later immigrant and not have any of them as physical ancestors.

Paul is assuring the Corinthians that their faith and practice they received from him is not some new cult out of sorts because "our fathers" were baptized unto Moses and we are baptized. They ate and drank of Christ (the manna and water) just as we eat and drink of Christ (the bread and wine - 1Co 10:16-22; 11:17-34). Then, Paul admonishes them not to fall into the temptations into which many of "our fathers" fell.

Have I "spiritualized" too much?

 

So basically you are saying that Paul was in error when he penned Eph. ch 3. (NKJV). Not trying to put words in your mouth.

 

So are you saying that there is no distinction between the OT form and the NT form?

 

"As he saith also in Osee" (Rom 9:25)
"Esaias also crieth concerning Israel" (Rom 9:27)
"And as Esaias said before" (Rom 9:29)
"As it is written" (Rom 9:33)
"But what saith it?" (Rom 10:8)
"For the scripture saith" (Rom 10:11)
"For Esaias saith" (Rom 10:16)
"Have they not heard?" (Rom 10:18)
"First Moses saith" (Rom 10:19)
"But Esaias is very bold, and saith" (Rom 10:20)
"But to Israel he saith" (Rom 10:21)
"Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias?" (Rom 11:2)
"But what saith the answer of God unto him?" (Rom 11:3)
"According as it is written" (Rom 11:8)
"And David saith" (Rom 11:9)
"And if some of the branches be broken off" (Rom 11:17 c.f. Jer 11:16)
"as it is written" (Rom 11:26)

The church was a "mystery" NOT in the sense that it is totally absent from prophecy, but that it WAS prophesied in a way that was not entirely clear to the prophets. It was given in language with which they were familiar, using conditions that were present at the time they were given.

Peter writing to Jewish believers:
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

 

Yes, the church was a mystery and still is in part. The mystery is something not understood even if there is clues. As to clues in the OT I know of none that could ever be understood as what would happened on Pentecost and what has taken place from that time to today. I would suggest that anyone who claims that the church was not a mystery has blinded themselves to the mystery itself.
There was never any person who ever understood what was coming in regards to the church age, no one, not even the prophets, and that means the church, church age, was a mystery.

 

The passage in Hosea speaks against futurist doctrine. Verse 7 eliminates the doctrine of a future battle of Armageddon. Verse 10 is an undeniable description of the Church with an innumerable number of souls from every nation. The "it shall come to pass" prophecy was fulfilled when Paul was sent to the Gentiles. We are proof of the fulfillment of this passage. Then verse 11 reveals Christ as the sole head of the Church. If verse 11 is referring to the genetic Israel & Judah, it is contradiction to verse 6. Israel & Judah are OT types.

A question, if verse 11 is referring to the genetic descendants of Israel & Judah, then where is the nation of Judah today?

But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen. Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son. Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel. (Hosea 1:7-11)

 

Not even the Apostles who heard Jesus speak about it before Pentecost. It is simply amazing that on a Baptist forum comprised of Baptist who claim Biblical authority in matters of faith that we are even having this discussion but we are!

And yet some speak with such certainty about things that are not even taught by the Bible such as covenant theology. They discount details of prophecy which they think are not important and yet insist that theirs is the correct interpretation of that same prophecy!

 

Yeah, but what real (classical or hyper) dispensationalism means by "mystery" is not that the church was prophesied yet unclear, but rather that its existence was entirely outside the realm of prophecy (which was entirely about geopolitical Israel). Basically, the 70 weeks given to Daniel were "supposed" to be consecutive, followed by the millennial reign, followed by the new heavens and earth. The church is an "interruption" in that prophecy and a "parenthesis" inserted between the 69th and 70th week. Accordingly, absolutely nothing in prophecy could even hint at the church.

Modern dispensationalism has softened these brash assertions by Darby and company.

 

What did I say could not hapen?

 

I don't expect everyone to agree with me but the more of you I read the less impressed I become. I expect a lack of maturity from the kids and disney characters and would actually be disappointed if they started taking the Bible seriously because it has such entertainment value. But then there are those who just ramble on and on about nothing. Why?