Reply to Mark,
I'll accept your argument here regarding Acts 13:48 specifically.
Here are all the verses where "apponted" (Strong's G5021) is used in the NT:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5021&t=NASB
In the vast majority of them, no such mutual agreement as you suggest is in evidence. In the first one, Jesus appoints a mountain where he and the disciples will meet (No agreement from the mountain). In the second The good Centurion of the gospels talks about being appointed by someone over him and that he himself has men under him who he orders "Go" and they "Go".
The third occurrence is there in Act:13:48. But the fourth is in Act 15:2, and there clearly is the sort of mutual agreement that you suggest, as it says the bretheren appointed Paul and Barnabus and some others to do something.
So, point taken in regards to Acts 13:48.
But you have never responded to my point in #81 (and elsewhere) that the omnipotence and omniscience of God from eternity past makes your claim of God "choosing" people only after they are alive meaningless.
God knows from eternity past everything that will happen. But also, anything he doesn't want to happen he could prohibit (by virtue of his omnipotence.) Therefore, we are chosen from eternity past to be saved or unsaved.
I note that you admitted to believe that overall Open Theology is a false doctrine
So, I guess I've said all I want to say on this, but thanks for your time.
God Bless.
Mark, I did not see where you addressed my points, but simply made arguments based on other verses. Well lets go over your last statements.
In the vast majority... no evidence of mutual agreement.
As I said, for Calvinism to be defended, words have to be redefined.
Lets consider appointed:
“Tasso appears in various forms eight times in the New Testament. Below is a list of the various English words used to translate the various forms of the root Greek word transliterated “tasso.”
Matthew 28:16 – “designated” (NASB); “told” (NIV); “directed” (ESV, HCSB); “appointed” (NKJV, YLT);
Luke 7:8 – “placed” (NASB, HCSB, NKJV and YLT); omitted (NIV); “set” (ESV);
Acts 13:48 – “appointed” (NASB, NIV, ESV, HCSB, NKJV and YLT);
Acts 15:2 – “determined” (NASB, NKJV); “appointed” (NIV, ESV); “arranged” (HCSB, YLT);
Acts 22:10 – “appointed” (NASB, ESV, NKJV, YLT); “assigned” (NIV, HCSB);
Acts 28:23 – “set” (NASB); “arranged” (NIV, HCSB); “appointed” (ESV, NKJV, YLT);
Romans 13:1 – “established” (NASB, NIV); “instituted” (ESV, HCSB); “appointed” (NKJV, YLT);
1 Corinthians 16:15 - "devoted themselves" (NASB, NIV, ESV, HCSB, NKJV); set themselves (YLT);
If we sum up the various English words used to translate the forms of “tasso” here is the result:
appointed nineteen times,
designated one time,
told one time
directed two times,
set two times
placed three times
determined two times
arranged four times
assigned four times
established two times
instituted two times
devoted themselves two times
set themselves one time.
From this we can conclude that most modern translations agree that “appointed” best translates the idea being conveyed by the use of the various forms of the Greek “tasso.” Now the English definition of “appoint” from the “American Heritage Dictionary” is (1) to select or designate to fill an office or position; (2) to fix or set by authority or mutual agreement. The person designated to the position becomes the “appointee.” And the act of appointing is an appointment. Those who agree with the designated arrangement are therefore appointed to whatever the arrangement is.
To appoint, therefore, is the result of someone in authority or otherwise respected telling someone willing what to do. This is the meaning in every case where the term is used in the New Testament. When the person does what they were told to do, they are fulfilling the appointed task. Now lets look at all the verses using the NASB translation choices.
In Matthew 28:16, scripture says the disciples proceeded to the mountain which Jesus had designated. The word translated designated is the Greek term that means appoint. Jesus had told the disciples where to go, and when they responded by accepting the direction then meeting at the location, the mountain, had been appointed. Another way to look at it is they had been appointed to the meeting location because they accepted Christ's direction.
In Luke 7:8, scripture says, "For I also am a man placed under authority...." The word translated as placed is the Greek term that means appoint. When the officer accepted the direction of His superiors, he was appointed under authority.
In Acts 13:48, scripture says "... and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." The word translated "had been appointed" is the Greek term that means appoint. Paul had presented the gospel of Christ to the Gentiles and as many as received the gospel and took direction from Paul to eternal life, believed.
In Acts 15:2, scripture says "...the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others should go...." The word translated as determined is the Greek term that means appoint. When Paul and Barnabas and the others accepted the direction to go, then it was appointed for them to go.
In Acts 22:10, scripture says "... and there you will be told of all that has been appointed for you to do." The word translated as appointed is the Greek term that means appoint. When Ananias received direction as to what to tell Paul, then he was appointed to the task my mutual consent.
In Acts 28:23, scripture says, "And when they had set a day for Paul...." The word translated as set is the Greek term that means appoint. A group of Jews made an arrangement with Paul to meet on a certain day, so the thing appointed was the day.
In Romans 13:1, scripture says, "...for there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God." The word translated established is the Greek term that means appoint. God has said that government be established and provided rules and so the authorities that exist are the "things" appointed. As a side note, based on the meaning of the word, only that governance that is consistent with God's directions can be considered appointed by God.
In 1 Corinthians 16:15, scripture says, "...and that they have devoted themselves to ministry...." The word translated "devoted themselves" is the Greek term that means appoint. This version of the root word seems to indicate they told themselves what to do and then complied rather than receiving direction from someone else. But in any even, the word still carries with it, even in this form, the idea of entering an arrangement and the result is said to be appointed.
So in every usage an arrangement between people is in view. So rather than the vast majority, we are talking about 100% of the time!
