So when does the Rapture take place?
There are only two positions, there will be a Rapture, or there won't be.
If you cannot yourself suggest when it will take place, it shows you are out of place condemning another for taking a view that they, at least, consistently give a Scriptural Basis for.
So do you believe there will be a Rapture and when will it take place?
Ok now I'm on a computer so I can answer this better.
Yes I believe that will be a Rapture and I take a Pantrib View, God knows when it will happen and it will all Pan out in the end. I think some views have less support then others, and I have the most trouble with the pre-trib view as it has a very American Centric feel to it. On another board someone in the Pretrib camp said that the persecution of Christians is Nothing today. Which I find offensive given that we have our Christian Brothers and Sisters having their heads sawed off by ISIS and I had recently been to a Voice of the Martyrs Conference and listening to the stories of persecution from around the world is not Nothing. This person basically wanted to ignore that for the sake of making his argument that we will not experience any tribulation, even though the Bible is clear that we should expect persecution and tribulation.
No, one does not have to do a lot of reading into to present the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, it is actually a matter of including many passages and balancing them in order to see that it is not possible that the Church be Raptured in the middle or end of the Tribulation.
I have never seen it done and beleive me I read a bunch of books defending the Pre-trib view. To get to that point you have to start with the pre-trib framework and fill in Scripture according to that framework.
For example Pre-tribbers love to point out John being called into heaven as begin the Rapture then they make an argument from silence that the church is not mentioned in Revelation until chapter 20. You then have to make Saints mean something else besides church, even though in the rest of the NT Saints refers to the church.
Examples: To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 1:17
And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. Rom 8:27
Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality. Rom 12:13
Here is Saints being used in Revelation:
And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. Rev 5:8
And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, Rev 8:3
Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, Rev 13:7
If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints. Rev 13:10
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. Rev 14:20
And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I marveled greatly. Rev 17:6
Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, for God has given judgment for you against her!” Rev 18:20
Those are just a few examples of Saints being used in Rev. In order for the pre-trib view to work you have to read a different meaning into Saint in Revelation then you would in any other book of the NT.
Answer this for me, if the Rapture takes place at the end of the Tribulation, prior to the Millennial Kingdom...who populates the Millennial Kingdom?
If it just a matter of the Church being resurrected in one general resurrection prior to the Great White Throne...where is the Millennial Kingdom?
I honestly think that post-trib has less support then pre-trib but no one is arguing for a post-trib view here so I really don't see the point in arguing against it since no one is arguing for it.
If the Rapture is during the Tribulation, why isn't it listed in the events, and why is the Church not even mentioned within the events?
I answered that above showing that if you are consistent across the NT Saints and the Church are used interchangeably and we have many mentions of Saints in Revelation.
Besides who are the Martyrs with the 5th seal?
Who does the AntiChrist make war with?
The problem with those who oppose the Pre-Trib Rapture is that they confuse the Return of Christ, where no resurrection other than Tribulational Martyrs takes place, with the event described by Paul. He makes it clear this was a previously unrevealed truth, which negates the possibility that in view is the general resurrection of the dead, for most were aware of that basic fundamental of Old Testament teaching. Those who denied the resurrection of the dead, the Sadducees, were rebuked of the Lord for not knowing Scripture.
So the point is, if you are going to support an a-millennial view (and please do not deny it), would you also please give your thoughts as to when exactly twenty years of study has brought you to understand the Rapture to take place.
I am not and A-Millennialist. I do believe in the literal 1000 year reign of Christ, and I do see the Rapture and Return as two distinct events. I just don't believe your brand of Pre-millennialism.
And, as a Young Earth Creationist, I would appreciate it if you could please explain this...
Not interested in your antagonist's commentary, just curious why YEC is something to be ridiculed as well.
God bless.
As I said before I'm also a Young Earth Creationist, but I do take issue with anyone trying to find hidden codes in the Bible and then trying to set dates based on those hidden codes. And yes I will call out anyone that tries to set dates. That never ends well for date setters and is contrary to what Jesus told us about His return. So yes I will ridicule date setting for the rapture and I'm not ashamed to say that.