The Controversy of Christian Lyric

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Bro Enda:
I thought you Americans believed in freedom of speech or am I only free to speak if I don't disagree with you.

You have freedom of speech. Say what you want. The problem is that you haven't earned the right to be heard.

Every time you step up onto a stage with your guitar hanging round your neck you are distracting the saints from the One who is worthy.

I disagree. As one who once led our church's band and who still sits in occasionally, I fail to see any difference in someone who plays a guitar and someone who plays an orga or piano.

In fact, we had to let one of the girls who played piano in the band go because she thought it was about performing.

You are attempting to steal His glory

Fortunately for us, God knows that's not true.

it is shameful that pulpits have been torn down and stages built to replace them.

No, what's shameless is that you would make this long post telling us all how you've reformed and then return to your old tricks.

The arogance of you musicians is astonishing.

Are you the same guy who PM'd me and said that you hoped we could reach an understanding?

So you can play music, SO WHAT, don't fool yourself into thinking you are called to a ministry.

Actually, I've never called my music a ministry.

In my opinion you are on an ego trip, the sooner you realise that the better.

Some "understanding".

You are the king of ego trips.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Is that your nicey nicey way of calling me a liar. Thanks.

Actually, no, I'm not calling you a liar. You said you like some modern poetry. I said I don't believe it. In some parts of the world, this is a figure of speech. I apologize for your misinterpretation.

Stop whinging, I haven't berated anyone up to now. I thought you Americans believed in freedom of speech or am I only free to speak if I don't disagree with you.

Sorry, I didn't mean to "whing".

I do believe in freedom of speech. And frankly, I don't care if you agree with me. Thankfully, my ministry does not hang on that nail.

Every time you step up onto a stage with your guitar hanging round your neck you are distracting the saints from the One who is worthy. You are attempting to steal His glory, it is shameful that pulpits have been torn down and stages built to replace them.

I beg to differ. Every time I stand in front of our congregation (FYI without a guitar) and lead in song, I take no glory for myself. There are many times I am not even looking at the congregation, the choir, or the screen. If the lyrics are vertical, directed to God, I have my eyes closed singing to Him. Any distraction is only because I'm an ugly fat man. That I can't do much about. I have stolen no glory, I merely prompt the congregation to respond to the One Who does receive it. And our pulpit is very much in place, with our pastor taking over half of the service to preach from and about the Word of God. He is an amazing pastor and preacher, and I am thankful to be under his tutelage. Your assumption is denied, over-generalized, and overall, stupid.

Get off the stage entertainer, then pull down the stage and put the pulpit back up. Step aside and allow the one who IS called to preach to deliver his sermon without distraction.

I believe I've spoken to this already. See my above paragraph. And by the way, if I wanted to be an entertainer, I certainly would not be doing it in the church.

The arogance of you musicians is astonishing. So you can play music, SO WHAT, don't fool yourself into thinking you are called to a ministry. In my opinion you are on an ego trip, the sooner you realise that the better.

And what of your arrogance, Mr. "I Have the Corner Market on What the Word of God Says"? I can play music, I am educated, but what of it? There is always someone who knows more, is more gifted, or more talented. And there are millions more gifted, talented, and apt to lead more efficiently than myself. I have realized that, and am still humbled that He would choose to use this weak vessel to lead others in worship. As far as my "ego trip," that is your assumption also. You did not call me, and even if you would have, I would not have answered you. My calling from God is not in question, at least not to those who matter in the eternal scheme of things. Your petty, abrasive, and simple attempts at questioning my motives and directives are silly. Thanks so much. This HAS been a delightful afternoon.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

And now... back to lyrics...

All I Know
Cliff Young and Aaron Tate © 1994 Cumbee Road Music

Spit and the clay, when washed away gave the blind man sight.
New eyes couldn’t comprehend the sun that by light ended the night.
Shackled in blindness since his birth,
Whose sin, was it him? What’s it all worth?

Now with eyes wide open, they interrogate him saying, “Who is He?
Do you believe what that man is saying, who do you say is He?”

“All I know is I was blind,” he said, “and now I see.
All I know is, is He healed me.”

Well I sit here today, so I say that I believe in Him,
Yet I cannot fathom the wind-like way He’s made me new again.
Shackled in darkness since my birth,
Whose sin, was it me? What’s it all worth?

"All I know is I was blind," I say, "and now I see.
All I know is, is He healed me.”

Now new from the womb, they interrogate me saying, “Who is He?
Do you believe what that Book is saying? How gullible can you be?
Darwin may tend to disagree, oh I don’t know,
Marx is writing a drug I need, still I don’t know.
Freud analyzes in my head, Nietzche’s saying God is dead…

But I’m saying…
"All I know is I was blind, and now I see.
All I know is He healed me."

Spit and the clay, when washed away gave this blind man sight.

 

[DanielFive]

Mike,

For your information my last post was directed at the organ grinder.

Regarding my pm to you, thanks for your nice christian reply. In case you were wondering I did check up a little on your Irish 'McKinney' ancestors. Mostly gypsies.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Oops... wrong again. I don't play the organ either.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Bro Enda:
Regarding my pm to you, thanks for your nice christian reply.

No problem. Of course, had I known you were going to go right back to your old tricks, I would probably have hesitated before accepting your apology.

Now, I have to wonder just how sincere you were.

In case you were wondering I did check up a little on your Irish 'McKinney' ancestors. Mostly gypsies.

Eh, I've been called worse.

 

[DanielFive]

No problem. Of course, had I known you were going to go right back to your old tricks, I would have hesistated before accepting your apology.

That was scarcasm Mike, I'm still waiting for your reply.

The gypsy remark was a joke, as you know, I did warn you I had a weird sense of humor. Just taking the Mick.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Bro Enda:
That was scarcasm Mike, I'm still waiting for your reply.

Check your PM's. I answered you some time ago. In the spirit of "70 x 7", I accepted your latest apology and told you that I, too, hoped we could "reach an understanding", as you put it.

A fat lot of good it did me.

 

[DanielFive]

Check your PM's. I answered you some time ago. In the spirit of "70 x 7", I accepted your latest apology and told you that I, too, hoped we could "reach an understanding", as you put it.

A fat lot of good it did me.

Mike, I check my PMs every day. I can assure you, I don't know what you are talking about. You never sent me a PM. Obviously, I assumed that you had again rejected my attempts to put things right.

Don't know what you're talking about when you say it done you a fat lot of good, I haven't said anything offensive to you since, you are a big boy and are able to dish out a bit of banter, I'm sure you can take a little too. I'm sure you didn't think that I was going to change my views on music just because I had extended a hand of friendship to you. I'd prefer if we all got along in spite of our differences.

Anyway, the offer still stands, let me know.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Bro Enda:
You never sent me a PM.

I did.

I'm sure you didn't think that I was going to change my views on music just because I had extended a hand of friendship to you.

No one is asking you to change your views, narrow and bigoted though they may be, but there are many of us here who wish you would change your attitude and try to live up to the promises you made when you gave us that speech a while back in which you promised you were going to reform.

Anyway, the offer still stands, let me know.

I accepted your apology and said that, I too, would like to "reach an understanding". I reiterated it here, although now I feel a bit foolish for doing so. You issue apology after apology and then go right back to doing what it was you just apologized for so we've got to wonder exactly what an apology from you is worth.

Should I accept an apology from you and try to "reach an understanding" when history shows us that you're just going to go right back to being your own beligerant self?

Next time, don't tell me you're sorry, show me you're sorry by treating me and others here with a little civility.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Open Letter to the Christian Subculture
Ross King (C) 1995 Ross King

If I tap your shell will I find it hollow?
If I look to close will I see right through?
And if I break your spell what then will I follow?
Are you willing to show me how to get there without you?
Is there something more that what you've been telling?
Or maybe you've been telling more than what you know?
And I've been buying all this stuff that you've been selling
Now I wondering where all that money goes...

I want something real and I don't think that you can give it to me.
You don't know how I feel, you're too addicted to your life.
I'm making my appeal can you take the time to listen to me,
Or are you blinded by the light you never shine?

I really like the music and the songs your singing,
But it sounds like something that I've heard before.
And you're saying so much so fast and your not explaining
Don't you realize that some of us have been ignored?
There's some guy quoting answers from a book of guesses,
He's a psuedo-student of a brand new art.
But he's the expert here among the wide-eyed masses,
He has unchecked power over every little heart.

I want something real and I don't think that you can give it to me.
You don't know how I feel, you're too addicted to your life.
I'm making my appeal can you take the time to listen to me,
Or are you blinded by the light you never shine?

If I were a death row inmate praying for a pardon, and you had the only saving proof,
Would you come down from your party just to stop my execution,
Or would you just keep dancing on my roof?
If your Jesus really is the only answer,
Why do you find answers in the people your around?
You've got the latest CD, you read the hottest authors,
But you cannot tell me where the scripture verse is found...

I want something real and I don't think that you can give it to me.
You don't know how I feel, you're too addicted to your life.
I'm making my appeal can you take the time to listen to me,
Or are you blinded by the light you never shine?
Won't you turn and shine the light that I can't find?
Please don't move so fast that I am left behind...

 

[DanielFive]

I did.

You didn't. Is this a bare-faced lie or is your memory going. Click on your profile, look at your 'sent messages', I'll give you a 100% guarantee it's not there.

When you find that out for yourself please have the grace to admit it.

As for the rest of your post, forget it ,I'm not taking a lecture from you, I call a spade a spade, always have done always will do. Mike, can't you see how judgemental you are with me, you always have been in spite of my efforts to seek reconciliation with you. Remember you'll be judged as you judge and if your love for me is anything to go by you're in trouble.

None of us earned Christs love, we don't just love those who love us, thats not what the great commandments are all about. Maybe what I need and expect from you as a Christian is a little humility, when someone apologises to me I accept it without condition knowing and acknowledging my own faults and sins. Obviously you don't adhere to the principle of not casting the first stone....... I hope you have a rethink.

If and when I recieve your PM I'll give you that 'handshake' until then I can't shake hands with thin air. As far as attitude towards you goes, well you decide what way you want to go now, at present I can only assume that you'd prefer us to be at loggerheads, that is how it is going to be while we can only talk about the thing which divides us as Christians.

Hoonestly, the reason I PM'd you was because I wanted you to realise that there are things that we have in common, if we'd talked about these for a while I'm sure we'd get along much better on the music forum. I tried, and the Lord knows how hard I've tried to put things right but the lack of response from you is frustrating. I hope you'll think about these things, I'm not lecturing you I'm just trying to get you to see what we need to be thinking about as Christians.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Bro Enda:
I did.

You didn't. Is this a bare-faced lie or is your memory going. Click on your profile, look at your 'sent messages', I'll give you a 100% guarantee it's not there.[/qb][/QUOTE]Fair enough. It's not there. I don't know why but I did write you back. I don't know if I only thought I sent it or didn't hit the button or what, but I did intend to respond.

Mike, can't you see how judgemental you are with me,

Please give an example when I have been judgemental toward you.

Can you not see how unfairly judgemental you are toward the rest of us?

You're so consumed with your own hubris, you can't see that you do the same things you say you're so offended by.

The comments you made about those of us who are musicians were untrue and uncalled for.

you always have been in spite of my efforts to seek reconciliation with you. Remember you'll be judged as you judge and if your love for me is anything to go by you're in trouble.

It has nothing to do with love for you.

Like I said, should I accept your apologies when you, yourself, don't take them seriously? You apologize and go right back to doing the thing you just apologzed for. This isn't a one time thing. This is an ongoing pattern of behavior with you.

Maybe what I need and expect from you as a Christian is a little humility,

Given your enormous ego, do you really have the right to demand humility from anyone?

when someone apologises to me I accept it without condition knowing and acknowledging my own faults and sins.

Actually, I did accept your apologies without condition everytime you offered them and now I look like a fool for it.

Obviously you don't adhere to the principle of not casting the first stone....... I hope you have a rethink.

Actually, I haven't cast any stones in your direction, so your point is moot.

If and when I recieve your PM I'll give you that 'handshake' until then I can't shake hands with thin air.

I'm still awaiting your answer as to what I should do.

Hoonestly, the reason I PM'd you was because I wanted you to realise that there are things that we have in common, if we'd talked about these for a while I'm sure we'd get along much better on the music forum.

Actually, this is a point I've tried in vain to make to you but, of course, you could never have anything in common with lowly sinners such as us.

I tried, and the Lord knows how hard I've tried to put things right but the lack of response from you is frustrating.

And accepting your apology only to find that I'm being taken advantage of is growing tiresome.

I hope you'll think about these things, I'm not lecturing you I'm just trying to get you to see what we need to be thinking about as Christians.

What right do you have to try to get me to see anything when you dismissed my post to you with,

As for the rest of your post, forget it ,I'm not taking a lecture from you, I call a spade a spade, always have done always will do.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You treat the rest of us like dirt and then expect us to show you respect as some great spiritual thinker.

Doesn't work that way. If you want respect, you need to show it to others, first.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

THE DEVIL MAN (Story of Judas)
Cindy Morgan (C) 1998 Word Music

Give me the money, give me the gold
Dirty little palms and a heart that's cold.
Kiss of the serpent, bite of the fruit
You can keep the knowledge, I just want the loot, want the loot,
I just want the loot.

I'm making deals with a mighty bad hand,
Fishing in a boat that is sinking in sand,
And I'm messing into things that I never should have,
And I'm making plans with the Devil Man.

Sneaking through the dark like a vigil in black
I kiss You on the cheek then I stab You in the back.
Cause what I didn't know is what I didn't know,
The hammer cracked and the blood it flowed.
And I wish I could take it back...

But I'm making deals with a mighty bad hand,
Fishing in a boat that is sinking in sand,
And I'm messing into things that I never should have,
And I'm making plans with the Devil Man.

Hanging from my neck from a dirty piece of wood,
I'm known as the betrayer buried in a field of blood.
In a field of blood.

Don't go making deals with a mighty bad hand,
Fishing in a boat that is sinking in sand,
And I'm messing into things that I never should have,
And I'm making plans with the Devil Man.

 

[Mike McK]

Joshua,

I don't know if it's necessarily "controversial", but have you ever heard (Baptist pastor) Dana Key's excellent musical study of the life of Christ called, "The Journey"?

That last song reminded a little of one of the songs on that album.

 

[Molly]

That is strange,Joshua....

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Thanks Molly. Just thought I'd find some more lyrics. Discussion?

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

FAT BABY
Words and Music by Steve Millikan and Rod Robinson

I know a man, maybe you know him, too.
You never can tell, he might even be you.
He knelt at the altar and that was the end.
He's saved and that's all that matters to him.
His spiritual tummy, it can't take too much.
One day a week, he gets his spiritual lunch.
On Sunday he puts on his spiritual best
And gives his language a spiritual rest.

He's just a fat little baby.
He wants his bottle and he don't mean maybe.
He's sampled solid food once or twice.
But he says doctrine leaves him cold as ice.

He's been baptized, sanctified, redeemed by the blood.
But his daily devotions are stuck in the mud.
He knows the books of the Bible and John 3:16
He's got the biggest King James you've ever seen.
I've always wondered if he'll grow up someday.
He's mamma's boy, and he likes it that way.
If you happen to see him, tell him I said
He'll never grow, if he never gets fed.

He's just a fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat
A fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat,
A fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, fat, little baby.

 

[Molly]

Okay,now that's a good one...

Molly

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Thanks Molly.