The Controversy of Christian Lyric

[Joshua Rhodes]

Since this song really started this thread hopping about what was appropriate or not, I decided to write the author and ask him what the song was saying. He responded just a few minutes ago with the following explanation of his song, Vegas. In His Grip, joshua

VEGAS
Caleb Carruth © 2002

A brief encounter in the city of sin,
In walks the devil, isn't she so beautiful?
She says "I hear they grow nice things in Texas,
That will mind-alter your perceptions..."
I correspond the secret, no, respond with a smile.

Don't believe my lies, I've been known to let you down,
In practice, I preach it's better not to offend than to change a life.
Forgive me, I've sentenced you to die.
As it all comes down to this one thing:
I know my faith it is a lie.

It's not nerves that I won't speak
Nor the apathy within me.
She chose or HE chose and if I speak will she be culpable?

I've had it up to here now,
I do this all the time.
Make war with my insides and insights that blind
And I know that you are the way the truth and life!
A gift freely given;

Forgive me, I've sentenced you to die.
As it all comes down to this one thing:
I know my faith it is a lie.
And I know You know...


"My friends and I took a road trip out to California one year. While we sat in traffic on Hoover dam, some people thought it would be a good idea to hang out of the sun roof. This led to the sunroof breaking.

The closest dealership that could fix it was in Las Vegas, so we saw this as a perfect opportunity to experience the city.

Some went site-seeing, while myself and my friend Jason sat at a Mitsubishi dealership. We were there for 8 hours in the waiting room along with some other people. (One guy worked for the military and when pressed about Area 51 got all silent on us). Another was the girl that's mentioned in the song.

The whole day, our group of people in the waiting room just chatted about where we were from. When we were asked, we responded with "Texas". And from there we jumped into an incredible conversation on how apparently psychodelic mushrooms grow like crazy all over the Texas highways. We were completely unaware of this fact. And personally, while it might be a little true, we believe that perhaps her impressions of Texas were a bit off.

So, as we all sat there conversing about our lives and dreams, and as I randomly flipped through my friend's autobiography of Billy Graham, never once did a conversation about the love of Christ or His free gift of salvation come up. It was THE perfect time to do so, that I am sure of.

That's pretty much the setting. And I think you'll be able to understand the rest of the song with all that in mind. Hope this helps better explain it.

-Caleb

 

[Mike McK]

Not a Christian lyric but a poignant one, nonetheless:

The Grand Illusion

Written by Dennis Deyoung

Welcome to the grand illusion

Come on in and see what's happening

Pay the price, get your tickets for the show

The stage is set, the band starts playing

Suddenly your heart is pounding

Wishing secretly you were a star.


But don't be fooled by the radio

The tv or the magazines

They show you photographs of how your life should
be

But they're just someone else's fantasy

So if you think your life is complete confusion

Because you never win the game

Just remember that it's a grand illusion

And deep inside we're all the same.

We're all the same...


So if you think your life is complete confusion

Because your neighbors got it made

Just remember that it's a grand illusion

And deep inside we're all the same.

We're all the same...


America spells competition, join us in our blind ambition

Get yourself a brand new motor car

Someday soon we'll stop to ponder what on earth's this spell we're under

We made the grade and still we wonder who the hell we are

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Mike, where is that from? I don't recognize the author's name. I feel that maybe since this thread was started for Christian lyric perusal, we should keep it restricted to just Christian lyrics. Maybe you should start a thread on lyrics that aren't Christian but point to a Christian ideal? I think that might be a great thread!

Just a thought.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Joshua Rhodes:
Mike, where is that from? I don't recognize the author's name.

That's Dennis Deyoung, who sings at Greg Laurie's Harvest Crusades. He was the leader of STYX.

[qote]I feel that maybe since this thread was started for Christian lyric perusal, we should keep it restricted to just Christian lyrics.[/quote]

Sorry. I ran out of ideas.

I'll keep it to Christian songs from here on.

Maybe you should start a thread on lyrics that aren't Christian but point to a Christian ideal? I think that might be a great thread!

There are two of them already. Everybody quit posting to them.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Oh... I didn't know. I wasn't trying to take the wind out of your sails.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Found another one. I know this one's getting alot of press right now. I'll preface the song lyrics with Derek's own words describing this project called, "She Must and Shall Go Free." In His Grip, joshua

After ten years in a Christian band, backstage in the music industry and in the hallways of church buildings across America, my attention as a songwriter has turned to a fresh affection for the Church. It seems we know all too little of who She is, how She should dress, or what She was made for. I have found that Scripture is provocative when it comes to these issues and so these songs are not for the faint of heart. Truth is, God would rather die then be without Her, and She is both wretched and radiant. I'm convinced that there is only one righteousness suitable for Jesus' bride, and He is jealous for her love. For the believer, truth is freedom. Even truth that is hard to hear. May these songs stir all of us to see, as if for the first time, that we have (still) a great need for a Savior, and a great Savior for our need. --God bless, derek

[I hope I don't offend someone with this edit. I didn't judge the lyrics quoted to be suitable for a Baptist discussion board. Some may disagree with me, but since I am one who has been entrusted with overseeing this forum, my judgment prevails.

Joshua, this is no reflection on you. I know you were merely posting controversial lyrics.

Your friendly co-moderator,
Aaron

]

[ August 10, 2003, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Joshua Rhodes:
...my attention as a songwriter has turned to a fresh affection for the Church. It seems we know all too little of who She is, how She should dress, or what She was made for. I have found that Scripture is provocative when it comes to these issues

Really? Provocative? Could you show me a few of these "provocative" references?

 

[Dr. Bob]

Is this thread trying to PROVE that some of the CCM is defiling and and disgusting and trash?

If so, you've succeeded.

I do not glory and revel in what I WAS. Now I am washed in the blood of the Lamb. How 'bout focusing on that?

Who would sing such filth? If sung in my church we have a rail to ride . .

 

[Aaron]

It's a far cry from "Glorious Things of Thee are Spoken, Zion City of Our God."

What do you think Dr. Bob? Should we use our god-like powers to fry that post?

 

[dianetavegia]

Just reading those lyrics turned my stomach. Please edit that post to remove such ugliness.

Diane

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

I deeply apologize for offending so many with my last post. In this setting, I was merely trying to post controversial lyrics for discussion. My intent was not to shock, irritate or agitate anyone, and I'm deeply sorry for doing so.

At first, I also found the above song, "Wedding Dress" offensive, but upon further listening, felt like I could understand the author's statement. Like Gomer, and others in Scripture who were ill-reputed and used as symbolism for the Church, I heard Derek's song in that light. This is not an attempt to recapture the issue or get the last word, merely to explain my thoughts for posting in the first place.

Please accept my apologies, and if the moderators feel the need to edit or erase the post, or this entire thread, I will understand. I am still learning my way around here.

Sincerely,
joshua

 

[Dr. Bob]

Think this thread has run its course. No one is going back to earlier pages.

If anyone would feel inclined to start a new one feel free. There IS a controversy over lyrics, for certain sure.

 

[Aaron]

After ten years in a Christian band, backstage in the music industry and in the hallways of church buildings across America, my attention as a songwriter has turned to a fresh affection for the Church. It seems we know all too little of who She is, how She should dress, or what She was made for. I have found that Scripture is provocative when it comes to these issues and so these songs are not for the faint of heart. Truth is, God would rather die then be without Her, and She is both wretched and radiant. I'm convinced that there is only one righteousness suitable for Jesus' bride, and He is jealous for her love. For the believer, truth is freedom. Even truth that is hard to hear. May these songs stir all of us to see, as if for the first time, that we have (still) a great need for a Savior, and a great Savior for our need. --God bless, derek

I opened the thread long enough to post a correction to the premises expressed above. I am not someone who was "shocked" to hear salty language in a song. The premises are erroneous if not heretical and demand a response.

It is obvious that Derek views God's affection for the Church like the TV Greg's affection for Dharma. Dharma is a pagan floozy that seems to have captured the heart of an otherwise straight-thinking conservative businessman. Though her free style living seems to bring him no end of grief, he just can't live without her. To him she is "both wretched and radiant."

The Bible paints a completely different portrait about the love that Christ has for the church. It isn't that He would die without her. Christ's only focus is the will of the Father, and it was His Father's will that He die in her stead. Christ truly loves the Church, and He purifies her and sanctifies her. He lifted her out of her wretchedness and washes her CLEAN with his own blood.

His blood does not cover, it cleanses.

The Song of Solomon teaches us the loving exchanges between Christ and the Church, and you will find no reference to bastards or whores in it.

God is jealous. There is no doubt about that. His jealousy, though, is nothing like ours. His does not lead Him to a lovesick despair. What is the outcome when His jealousy is provoked? He visits the iniquities of the fathers unto the children of the third and fourth generation. Not something to be trifled with or spoken of flippantly.

But Christ is not coming back as a lovelorn prince. He is coming back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of His Kingdom. He is not coming back for a whore, but for a spotless bride!