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The Day TULIP Died

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J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
Who said that? You are making a strawman argument.
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Think that could be derived form this quote of his
An Introduction to Lordship Salvation
"
Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus' lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture. In contrast, easy-believism teaches that submission to Christ's supreme authority is not germane to the saving transaction."
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
Well, you keep saying “according to Calvinism” and those that hold to the DOG will say “according to scripture”.

How about we focus on scripture. You mentioned Matthew 11:28 “…come to Me all who are weary and heavy laden…”

Let me first point out Jesus doesn’t invite “all” to come, only those that are weary and heavy laden. So, Jesus has clearly looked over those that are not weary and heavy laden.

How do you reconcile Matthew 11:27 “no one knows the Father but the Son and those whoever the Son wills to reveal Him”?

Doesn’t it seem reasonable to conclude, in context, that those who are weary and heavy laden are the same folks that Jesus has chosen according to His will, to reveal the Father?

Peace to you
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Actually no it does not when you look at the context of the bible. All that labor under the load of sin are being called, all those that are in the world that the Holy Spirit is convicting are called. Are you saying that only some people sin or the Holy Spirit does not convict the whole world? Does God not desire that all come to Him in faith? God does not want the wicked to die but would rather that they turn to Him and live?
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Actually no it does not when you look at the context of the bible. All that labor under the load of sin are being called, all those that are in the world that the Holy Spirit is convicting are called. Are you saying that only some people sin or the Holy Spirit does not convict the whole world? Does God not desire that all come to Him in faith? God does not want the wicked to die but would rather that they turn to Him and live?
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Ho Hum, same 'ole human logic with no biblical basis.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Actually no it does not when you look at the context of the bible. All that labor under the load of sin are being called, all those that are in the world that the Holy Spirit is convicting are called. Are you saying that only some people sin or the Holy Spirit does not convict the whole world? Does God not desire that all come to Him in faith? God does not want the wicked to die but would rather that they turn to Him and live?
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Jesus did not say “all that labor under the load of sin”. You have added that based on your theology.

peace to you
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
John 3:16 has already been limited by John 3:1-15 where Jesus reveals everyone “born again” is born by the will of God Holy Spirit, which is a repeating theme from John 1 that those that are sons of God are born by the will of God and then again in John 10 “My sheep hear My voice and follow Me…” and no one comes to the Father unless he is drawn and of the Pharisees Jesus says,” you do not believe because you are not of My sheep”

He doesn’t say they are not His sheep because they don’t believe, but rather they don’t believe BECAUSE they are not His sheep.

peace to you
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Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Calvinists do not want to let God be God. He has to fit into their theology or else.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
canadyjd said:
John 3:16 has already been limited by John 3:1-15 where Jesus reveals everyone “born again” is born by the will of God Holy Spirit, which is a repeating theme from John 1 that those that are sons of God are born by the will of God and then again in John 10 “My sheep hear My voice and follow Me…” and no one comes to the Father unless he is drawn and of the Pharisees Jesus says,” you do not believe because you are not of My sheep”

He doesn’t say they are not His sheep because they don’t believe, but rather they don’t believe BECAUSE they are not His sheep.

peace to you
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No. Otherwise John 3:16-19 would not continue by discussing those who are condemned (unless you are claiming the condemned are limited by being born again as well).
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
…

Calvinists do not want to let God be God. He has to fit into their theology or else.
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Just because you say it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over …..

Does not make it true.

And, once again, I’ll never take advice on understanding scripture from someone who believes…

“many are saved having never heard the gospel”

That is the perfect example of someone not trusting God’s word and attempting to force God to conformed to their unbiblical theology.

peace to you
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
No. Otherwise John 3:16-19 would not continue by discussing those who are condemned (unless you are claiming the condemned are limited by being born again as well).
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I’m not following your logic. Those that don’t believe are “condemned already”.

That clearly means that prior to belief, all were condemned already.

That God chose some to become “born again” and “children of God” by His will and His power is a testimony of His grace and mercy.

peace to you
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
canadyjd said:
I allow scripture, and scripture alone, to dictate my theology. Any suggestion otherwise is a false statement.

The “whosoever” out of the world is defined and limited by John 1 (the sons of God.are born by the will of God) John 3 (those that are born again are born by the will of God Holy Spirit) John 10 (no one comes unless they are drawn, My sheep hear My voice and follow Me)

Concerning the “light shines in the darkness”, those that “practice the truth” (notice the focus is not on belief) come to the light so that their deeds (the truth practiced) are revealed to be “wrought in God” (God is the source of the truthful deeds being practiced)

So those that practice truth, come to the light and are given the right to be children of God, do so by the Power of God.

peace to you
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You think you do, but you do not.

This is evident in your eisejesus of John. Calvin rightly interpreted John 3:16 to refer to the world. He rightly interpreted Christ being the propitiation for the sins of the whole world to mean all men.

Allowing those passages to be interpreted by Scripture does not require you to alter God's Word (even if you take Scripture for what it says, Calvinism is not contradicted by those two passages).

What you are doing is trying to make those passages mean Calvinism. So you change the meaning of words.

But the "world" as used by John is not the "elect in the world".
 
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