The disasterous failure of the early church

[awaken]

So how do you interpret "gates of hell"?

THe church will be so powerful that even the "gates of hades will not overcome it." In other words the gates of hades will not prove stronger than it.

 

[awaken]

Either they will or they will not! Which is it? If they will then they are necessary signs of true believers and thus those without such signs are not true believers.

Again...We can have the power within and upon and be ignorant of that power!

 

[awaken]

What you say... In your view we get the glory due to our "free will".



Jesus view: Only God gets the glory.

You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

We still have to obey! We can not obey what we do not understand!

 

[awaken]

You are clearly a hypocrite and I say that in all sincerity and honesty.
You say that people should do the very things you believe in, and yet you yourself cannot do and find impossible to do. How hypocritical is that?

I do what God has called me to do..I manifest ONLY what the Holy Spirit wills...not at my or your beck and call.

Two of the "gifts" following Mark 16 are stated here:
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;
--But, hypocritically, you tell others they should do this, but won't do it yourself. What else is it, if it isn't hypocrisy? Don't allegorize the verse away. I know what the Greek says. It means exactly what it says. It was demonstrated in part by the apostle Paul, when a poisonous snake attached itself to him, and the pagans of the island thought that he would die. He shook it off into the fire, and then they thought he was a god.

Acts 28:4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
Acts 28:5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

Why not imitate Paul if you think these signs are for every one. You would be hypocritical not to. And why are you telling others that they should partake of the same when you won't do it? That is hypocritical.
Have you had your daily dose of Draino? HCl perhaps?

Imitate Paul..in getting bit by a snake? No where in scriptures does it indicate to do as you are claiming I should.
I see you have not studied out the snakes and serpents in the Bible...

You claim to speak in tongues but you cannot.
Which languages have you spoken in? Cree? Mohawk? Maori? Hindi? Polish? German? Which?

You ask me to know what the Word of God says we do not know. It is a language that the speaker does not know or has learned.

That is what the word "tongue" means--"language." They were actual languages that people knew. But you don't know what language you speak in, and cannot know for it isn't a language. There is nothing Biblical about what you do that you call "tongues." It was something that was not practiced in Biblical times, except in the pagan past of the Corinthians (1Cor.12:2).

The Word of God says different! Yes, tongues is a language..I have never denied it.

Listen DHK...if you want to continue not to believe the Holy Spirit manifest Himself as the Word says he can (and does)..then continue on. I could have made the same choice...but I choose the believe the Word over what seminaries teach.

You cannot heal as Peter healed. Acts 5:16.
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
--That is a demonstration of the gift of healing.

Did Jesus heal everyone on the earth while He was here? Did Jesus call all to heal everyone? Read the Bible...

You say these gifts are available to all. Why don't you have them? Why don't you demonstrate them? Why are you so hypocritical in that you say others should practice them, but you can't practice them yourself.

When is the last time you performed a miracle--walked on water perhaps?

I can only do what the Holy Spirit choses to do through me..
That is not being hypocritical...

 

[The Biblicist]

Again...We can have the power within and upon and be ignorant of that power!

That is not what the scriptures says. Mark says these things "WILL" follow them that believe. Mark does not say the POTENTIAL will follow them that believe.

You are not dealing with the text and what it actually says but have changed the scripture to what you want it to say.

 

[The Biblicist]

THe church will be so powerful that even the "gates of hades will not overcome it." In other words the gates of hades will not prove stronger than it.

Again, you have not defined what the gates of hades is!

 

[DHK]

I do what God has called me to do..I manifest ONLY what the Holy Spirit wills...not at my or your beck and call.

You tell others to do what you cannot do. You are a hypocrite.

Imitate Paul..in getting bit by a snake? No where in scriptures does it indicate to do as you are claiming I should.
I see you have not studied out the snakes and serpents in the Bible...

Your supposed Greek? You don't know it. John of Japan demonstrated that. You owe him an apology. Your Greek is no better than the J.W.'s. The statement means exactly what it says. You just don't believe it, yet you tell others to obey the signs and wonders that follow, and those are two of them. You are a hypocrite.

You ask me to know what the Word of God says we do not know. It is a language that the speaker does not know or has learned.

First the word "unknown" is not in the Greek. It is a known language. It is a recognizable language. If you were speaking it to a people for a purpose--the Biblical edification of their understanding, then obviously you would know what language it is, by the people you were speaking to. If you were miraculously speaking Spanish to Spanish people, then you know it would be Spanish because you would be speaking to Spanish people for their edification. That is a no-brainer. You don't seem to get it.

The Word of God says different! Yes, tongues is a language..I have never denied it.

If you speak in it you would know what it is.

Listen DHK...if you want to continue not to believe the Holy Spirit manifest Himself as the Word says he can (and does)..then continue on. I could have made the same choice...but I choose the believe the Word over what seminaries teach.

You are wiser than seminaries and their teachers. What arrogance! In fact you deny 1900 years of history and all the scholarship in between. That is the height of arrogance and unbelief.

Did Jesus heal everyone on the earth while He was here? Did Jesus call all to heal everyone? Read the Bible...

As a matter of fact he did. You demonstrate your ignorance.

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

I can only do what the Holy Spirit choses to do through me..
That is not being hypocritical...

He doesn't ask much of you, does he?
You are a hypocrite. You prove that with every passing day.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

You tell others to do what you cannot do. You are a hypocrite.
Your supposed Greek? You don't know it. John of Japan demonstrated that. You owe him an apology. Your Greek is no better than the J.W.'s. The statement means exactly what it says. You just don't believe it, yet you tell others to obey the signs and wonders that follow, and those are two of them. You are a hypocrite.
First the word "unknown" is not in the Greek. It is a known language. It is a recognizable language. If you were speaking it to a people for a purpose--the Biblical edification of their understanding, then obviously you would know what language it is, by the people you were speaking to. If you were miraculously speaking Spanish to Spanish people, then you know it would be Spanish because you would be speaking to Spanish people for their edification. That is a no-brainer. You don't seem to get it.
If you speak in it you would know what it is.
You are wiser than seminaries and their teachers. What arrogance! In fact you deny 1900 years of history and all the scholarship in between. That is the height of arrogance and unbelief.
As a matter of fact he did. You demonstrate your ignorance.

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
He doesn't ask much of you, does he?
You are a hypocrite. You prove that with every passing day.

I guess you can get away with name calling since you are a moderator. But what does that make you?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm 72 ... you includin' me in that group?

P.S. -- God's evangelists are not real big on manners?

2nd P.S. -- Was Jesus? (Sorry, that's too deep for some of you.)
.

All the more frightening when a geezer is rude.

 

[DHK]

I guess you can get away with name calling since you are a moderator. But what does that make you?

I tell the truth Michael, and for that I do not apologize.
I could go to your website, quote from it, and then give my comments about it. They would be truthful, but you wouldn't like them. Nevertheless I would still tell you the truth.

 

[awaken]

That is not what the scriptures says. Mark says these things "WILL" follow them that believe. Mark does not say the POTENTIAL will follow them that believe.

You are not dealing with the text and what it actually says but have changed the scripture to what you want it to say.

Do you believe? From most of your post you do not believe what the apostles say about the manifestation of the Holy Spirit...therefore you do not manifest the nine listed in 1 Cor.
This is not to say that you are not born from above..I was for years..but denied the manifestations because of what I was taught by man.

 

[awaken]

You tell others to do what you cannot do. You are a hypocrite.
Your supposed Greek? You don't know it. John of Japan demonstrated that. You owe him an apology. Your Greek is no better than the J.W.'s. The statement means exactly what it says. You just don't believe it, yet you tell others to obey the signs and wonders that follow, and those are two of them. You are a hypocrite.
First the word "unknown" is not in the Greek. It is a known language. It is a recognizable language. If you were speaking it to a people for a purpose--the Biblical edification of their understanding, then obviously you would know what language it is, by the people you were speaking to. If you were miraculously speaking Spanish to Spanish people, then you know it would be Spanish because you would be speaking to Spanish people for their edification. That is a no-brainer. You don't seem to get it.
If you speak in it you would know what it is.
You are wiser than seminaries and their teachers. What arrogance! In fact you deny 1900 years of history and all the scholarship in between. That is the height of arrogance and unbelief.
As a matter of fact he did. You demonstrate your ignorance.

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
He doesn't ask much of you, does he?
You are a hypocrite. You prove that with every passing day.

You are not here with me..you do not see my life or what I manifest.
Again...continue in your unbelief concerning the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. I will continue to manifest what the Word says I can! I walk in the power that was poured out on the Day of Pentecost and will continue to be with the church until He returns!

 

[DHK]

You are not here with me..you do not see my life or what I manifest.

Manifest??
You are here! Right in front of me, within hand's reach. I can see you through thousands and thousands of words that you have posted in over one thousand three hundred and fifty eight posts and counting. Your words are all over this board manifesting to all who you are. You are proud and arrogant, never wanting to admit that you even have the slightest possibility of being wrong. You are so proud in being right that you have counted 1900 years of all of Christianity wrong, and it doesn't even phase you. I don't know if one could find a better illustration of arrogance than that.

Talk about seeing. I see.
"By thy words thou shalt be justified and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Mat.12:37
How can I not see?
I can see that you have advised all to seek after signs, wonders, gifts, etc., but you give no evidence that you have any, and deny that you have most or any. The ones that you supposedly have are fake. They are redefined by you to fit your own man-made religion. It is not God's faith. It is not what the Bible teaches. It is a collection of your experiences. You try to back up your experiences with the Bible even if the Bible has to be taken out of context.

Again...continue in your unbelief concerning the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. I will continue to manifest what the Word says I can! I walk in the power that was poured out on the Day of Pentecost and will continue to be with the church until He returns!

I am the one that believes the Bible; remember?
You are the one that bases his faith on experience, right?

It is your unbelief in the word of God that the gifts have ceased, that has led you astray down a path of unbelief. That path of unbelief is a path of experience and emotion being more important then the Word. Look at what you said above.

I walk in the power that was poured out on the Day of Pentecost.
What kind of statement is that?? You weren't there 2,000 years ago. It wasn't poured out on you. Did you have cloven tongues of fire on you? Was there a mighty rushing wind that you experienced?
Pentecost was an historical event, a one time event that happened one time in history, and you weren't there. Who is deceiving you? Your statements in that paragraph sound like they come straight from the mouth of a Charismatic TV show. I don't know what you are watching, but it is not of God. It isn't even Biblically correct.

 

[The Biblicist]

Do you believe? From most of your post you do not believe what the apostles say about the manifestation of the Holy Spirit...therefore you do not manifest the nine listed in 1 Cor.
This is not to say that you are not born from above..I was for years..but denied the manifestations because of what I was taught by man.[/QUOTE

That text does not change its meaning based upon what I believe or don't believe as in individual. You are still playing games with that text. You still don't acknowledge it for what it says. You are simply trying to change the subject rather than deal with what it actually says. The text says they "WILL" while you interpret it to mean they POTENTIALLY follow.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I tell the truth Michael, and for that I do not apologize.
I could go to your website, quote from it, and then give my comments about it. They would be truthful, but you wouldn't like them. Nevertheless I would still tell you the truth.

You can say whatever you want about someone's beliefs, including mine, and you have many times, including from my website; I would not care. But you go beyond that and make it personal. As for your comments being truthful: Truth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone in here thinks his or her views are the truth.

If I call someone a hypocrite, I am not commenting on their beliefs, I am disparaging their character. Oh, I have been guilty of getting personal, and for that I have had to repent and ask forgiveness. But I refuse to get into any more personal wrestling matches and get down in the hog wallow with anyone else, no matter what that person says about me.

Why don't you just comment on beliefs and not make it personal? Is that too difficult for you?

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Manifest??
You are here! Right in front of me, within hand's reach. I can see you through thousands and thousands of words that you have posted in over one thousand three hundred and fifty eight posts and counting. Your words are all over this board manifesting to all who you are. You are proud and arrogant, never wanting to admit that you even have the slightest possibility of being wrong. You are so proud in being right that you have counted 1900 years of all of Christianity wrong, and it doesn't even phase you. I don't know if one could find a better illustration of arrogance than that.


Pot and kettle here? LOL


Talk about seeing. I see.
"By thy words thou shalt be justified and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Mat.12:37
How can I not see?
I can see that you have advised all to seek after signs, wonders, gifts, etc., but you give no evidence that you have any, and deny that you have most or any. The ones that you supposedly have are fake. They are redefined by you to fit your own man-made religion. It is not God's faith. It is not what the Bible teaches. It is a collection of your experiences. You try to back up your experiences with the Bible even if the Bible has to be taken out of context.

I am the one that believes the Bible; remember?
You are the one that bases his faith on experience, right?

It is your unbelief in the word of God that the gifts have ceased, that has led you astray down a path of unbelief. That path of unbelief is a path of experience and emotion being more important then the Word. Look at what you said above.

I walk in the power that was poured out on the Day of Pentecost.
What kind of statement is that?? You weren't there 2,000 years ago. It wasn't poured out on you. Did you have cloven tongues of fire on you? Was there a mighty rushing wind that you experienced?
Pentecost was an historical event, a one time event that happened one time in history, and you weren't there. Who is deceiving you? Your statements in that paragraph sound like they come straight from the mouth of a Charismatic TV show. I don't know what you are watching, but it is not of God. It isn't even Biblically correct.

Pot and kettle,
Pot and kettle;
The more you write,
The more you settle. LOL

 

[evangelist-7]

... I choose to believe the Word over what seminaries teach.
Did Jesus heal everyone on the earth while He was here?
Did Jesus call all to heal everyone? Read the Bible...

But, the seminaries have a great excuse, don't they?
They themselves were taught many hundreds years worth of false doctrine.

Yes, Jesus called all believers to go forth, preach the gospel, heal the sick, etc.
That way ... more will believe ...and... more will be healed.

Not only is this Scriptural, but it makes sense!
But, not everything in Scripture makes sense!
So, that puts this little baby in "The Obvious" category for those ...
(1) who are born-again, and (2) who listen to the Spirit.
.

 

[awaken]

Manifest??
You are here! Right in front of me, within hand's reach. I can see you through thousands and thousands of words that you have posted in over one thousand three hundred and fifty eight posts and counting. Your words are all over this board manifesting to all who you are. You are proud and arrogant, never wanting to admit that you even have the slightest possibility of being wrong. You are so proud in being right that you have counted 1900 years of all of Christianity wrong, and it doesn't even phase you. I don't know if one could find a better illustration of arrogance than that.

Don't mean to come across arrogant..but I will not back down on what I believe is truth!

Talk about seeing. I see.
"By thy words thou shalt be justified and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Mat.12:37
How can I not see?
I can see that you have advised all to seek after signs, wonders, gifts, etc., but you give no evidence that you have any, and deny that you have most or any. The ones that you supposedly have are fake. They are redefined by you to fit your own man-made religion. It is not God's faith. It is not what the Bible teaches. It is a collection of your experiences. You try to back up your experiences with the Bible even if the Bible has to be taken out of context.

I have never advised anyone to seek after signs, wonders etc...I have quoted scriptures and they are in context. You ignore scriptures or explain them away to fit your theory.

I am the one that believes the Bible; remember?
You are the one that bases his faith on experience, right?

I heard/read in God's word before I ever experienced. That includes salvation..I believe before I experienced!

It is your unbelief in the word of God that the gifts have ceased, that has led you astray down a path of unbelief. That path of unbelief is a path of experience and emotion being more important then the Word. Look at what you said above.

I walk in the power that was poured out on the Day of Pentecost.
What kind of statement is that?? You weren't there 2,000 years ago. It wasn't poured out on you. Did you have cloven tongues of fire on you? Was there a mighty rushing wind that you experienced?
Pentecost was an historical event, a one time event that happened one time in history, and you weren't there. Who is deceiving you? Your statements in that paragraph sound like they come straight from the mouth of a Charismatic TV show. I don't know what you are watching, but it is not of God. It isn't even Biblically correct.

I pray and read His Word..ask for guidiance..He will never guide me astray! We will all be held accountable for what we believe and teach! I have a peace about what I believe!
I will repeat it one more time in case you have forgot....
THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST, TO REMAIN WITH THE CHURCH UNTIL IT IS COMPLETE AND PRESENTED TO THE LORD JESUS AT HIS COMING. JUST AS JESUS CHRIST FINISHED THE WORK HE CAME TO DO IN THE FLESH, SO THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL FINISH THE WORK HE CAME TO DO IN THE CHURCH.
The Holy Spirit...
Convicts of the sin of unbelief, Jesus is the righteousness of God, that the power of Satan has been broken.
He Regenerates, indwells, seals, baptized, infills, empowers, leads and administers gifts to the believer.
No where in scriptures does it say His work is finished or that He would be taken from the believer.

Common sense would tell you that if the 9 gifts administered by the Holy Spirit is for the good for the church...why would God take back what edifies, comforts and exhorts?

 

[awaken]

Do you believe? From most of your post you do not believe what the apostles say about the manifestation of the Holy Spirit...therefore you do not manifest the nine listed in 1 Cor.
This is not to say that you are not born from above..I was for years..but denied the manifestations because of what I was taught by man.

That text does not change its meaning based upon what I believe or don't believe as in individual. You are still playing games with that text. You still don't acknowledge it for what it says. You are simply trying to change the subject rather than deal with what it actually says. The text says they "WILL" while you interpret it to mean they POTENTIALLY follow.

Potentially? I was saved for many years and never manifested what the Bible says I can by the power of the Holy Spirit. Why? Because I was not taught correctly!!
Lets see...I speak with other tongues..I have laid hands on the sick and they have recovered. I have rebuked the devil on many occasions. As for as the snakes and scorpions...Luke 10:19 will shed some light to that!

I have not ignored the scriptures or taken them out of context! You on the other hand have explained them away or ignore them all together.

 

[awaken]

But, the seminaries have a great excuse, don't they?
They themselves were taught many hundreds years worth of false doctrine.

Yes, Jesus called all believers to go forth, preach the gospel, heal the sick, etc.
That way ... more will believe ...and... more will be healed.

Not only is this Scriptural, but it makes sense!
But, not everything in Scripture makes sense!
So, that puts this little baby in "The Obvious" category for those ...
(1) who are born-again, and (2) who listen to the Spirit.
.

I love my Baptist heritage! THey do a great job leading us to the cross! But they fail to show us how to walk in the power of the Holy Spirit.

For over 40 years I was kept in the dark by my own disbelief! By wrong teachings from man! There is so much more to living the abundant life!