The Double Election of Scripture

[MB]

First, you say I am presenting something "new." New to you perhaps, but the scriptural basis is more than 2000 years old.
Is the interpretation of Ephesians 1:4 as a corporate election new? Nope. Christ was chosen individually as God's Redeemer, and in choosing Him as Redeemer, God chose corporately all those Christ would redeem, therefore He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.

Your right it's the same old Calvinism.
MB

 

[1689Dave]

The Double Election doctrine can be compared with the Arminianism articles of Remonstrance, and with the points of Calvinism (TULIP) using the acronym ELECT.

The five articles of remonstrance
1. God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ those of the fallen and sinful race who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in Him, but leaves in sin the incorrigible and unbelieving. (In other words predestination is said to be conditioned by God's foreknowledge of who would respond to the gospel)
2. Christ died for all men (not just for the elect), but no one except the believer has remission of sin.
3. Man can neither of himself nor of his free will do anything truly good until he is born again of God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. (Though accused of such, Arminius and his followers were not Pelagians.)
4. All good deeds or movements in the regenerate must be ascribed to the grace of God but his grace is not irresistible.
5. Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit to persevere in the faith. But it is possible for a believer to fall from grace.

The five points of Calvinism (TULIP)
1. That fallen man is totally unable to seek God, understand spiritual things, or trust fully in Christ. (Total Spiritual Inability)
2. That God's electing purpose was not conditioned by anything in man (Unconditional Election)
3. That Christ's atoning death was sufficient to save all men, but Christ died only for the elect (Limited Atonement)
4. That the gift of faith, given by God's Holy Spirit, cannot be resisted by the elect (Irresistible Grace)
5. That those who are regenerated and justified will persevere in the faith (Perseverance of the Saints)

The five points of Double Election (ELECT)

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.

CHAPTER 3; OF GOD’S DECREE

Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4
1 Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15,18
2 James 1:13; 1 John 1:5
3 Acts 4:27,28; John 19:11
4 Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3-5

Paragraph 2. Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions,5 yet hath He not decreed anything, because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.6
5 Acts 15:18
6 Rom. 9:11,13,16,18

Paragraph 3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9
7 I Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5,6
9 Rom. 9:22,23; Jude 4

Paragraph 4. These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.10
10 2 Tim. 2:19; John 13:18

Paragraph 5. Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love,11 without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving Him thereunto.12
11 Eph. 1:4, 9, 11; Rom. 8:30; 2 Tim. 1:9; I Thess. 5:9
12 Rom. 9:13,16; Eph. 2:5,12

Paragraph 6. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so He hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto;13 wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,14 are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,15 and kept by His power through faith unto salvation;16 neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.17
13 1 Pet. 1:2; 2; Thess. 2:13
14 1 Thess. 5:9, 10
15 Rom. 8:30; 2 Thess. 2:13
16 1 Pet. 1:5
17 John 10:26, 17:9, 6:64

Paragraph 7. The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election;18 so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise,19 reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility,20 diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.21
18 1 Thess. 1:4,5; 2 Pet. 1:10
19 Eph. 1:6; Rom. 11:33
20 Rom. 11:5,6,20
21 Luke 10:20

London 1689 Baptist Confession.

 

[Yeshua1]

I expected "taint so" posts, and I did not expect anyone to actually consider Biblical Election as found in scripture.

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.

God election based only upon Hos own good pleasure and will, and is on individual basis!

 

[Van]

I see the usual ploy of false assertions is all the Calvinists have posted. As far as post #22,
Not one of all those referenced scriptures supports:
1) Exhaustive determinism.
2) Total Spiritual Inability
3) Unconditional individual election
4) Christ dying as a ransom for NOT all.
5) Irresistible Grace, the imaginary tractor beam that compels belief in Christ

But this thread is not about Arminians or Calvinist doctrine, but about the Biblical Doctrine of Double Election.
Lets see if anyone is able to actually discuss that doctrine. Copy and pasters of off the shelf Calvinism need not reply.

 

[Yeshua1]

I see the usual ploy of false assertions is all the Calvinists have posted. As far as post #22,
Not one of all those referenced scriptures supports:
1) Exhaustive determinism.
2) Total Spiritual Inability
3) Unconditional individual election
4) Christ dying as a ransom for NOT all.
5) Irresistible Grace, the imaginary tractor beam that compels belief in Christ

But this thread is not about Arminians or Calvinist doctrine, but about the Biblical Doctrine of Double Election.
Lets see if anyone is able to actually discuss that doctrine. Copy and pasters of off the shelf Calvinism need not reply.

Do Arminians hold to it also then?

 

[Van]

Your right it's the same old Calvinism.
MB

Unbelievable absurdity, as being individually chosen based on faith is not Calvinism.

 

[Van]

Do Arminians hold to it also then?

LOL, the OP presented the difference between the Arminian doctrine and the ELECT doctrine. Are you claiming you cannot discern the differences? Good Golly Miss Molly.

 

[Van]

God election based only upon Hos own good pleasure and will, and is on individual basis!

2 Thess. 2:13 is crystal clear, we are chosen individually through or on the basis of "faith in the truth."

 

[AustinC]

I see the usual ploy of false assertions is all the Calvinists have posted. As far as post #22,
Not one of all those referenced scriptures supports:
1) Exhaustive determinism.
2) Total Spiritual Inability
3) Unconditional individual election
4) Christ dying as a ransom for NOT all.
5) Irresistible Grace, the imaginary tractor beam that compels belief in Christ

But this thread is not about Arminians or Calvinist doctrine, but about the Biblical Doctrine of Double Election.
Lets see if anyone is able to actually discuss that doctrine. Copy and pasters of off the shelf Calvinism need not reply.

Be honest Van, you have created a theology of your own that is far from orthodox Christianity so that you are the only person here that supports your theology. I caution you to consider the danger of being a lone ranger.

 

[Van]

We were chosen before creation corporately and chosen during our lifetime based on our faith in the truth individually.
Therefore the following presents the actual biblical doctrine of election for salvation, the ELECT doctrine.

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly. Acts 13:48 indicates those who accepted the gospel's requirements believed.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.

 

[Van]

Be honest Van, you have created a theology of your own that is far from orthodox Christianity so that you are the only person here that supports your theology. I caution you to consider the danger of being a lone ranger.

1) First the usual ad hominem, implying I am not honest. Par for the course of posters with no ability to address doctrine.
2) The doctrine presented is from scripture, I did not need to rewrite, ignore, or otherwise misrepresent God's word.
3) Orthodox Christianity was not defined, thus just disparagement without merit. ELECT doctrine is consistent with orthodox Christianity, such as Sola Scripture versus quoting creeds.
4) Each position presented is widely held, such as conditional election, Christ dying for all mankind, God credits the faith of believers as righteousness, the Holy Spirit baptizes us individually into the body of Christ, people are able to understand and respond to the gospel, and so forth. To claim the false doctrines of Calvinism are orthodox is simply another absurdity.

Would you care now to actually discuss any of the ELECT points using scripture for support? I am!!!

 

[Van]

Why the election of Ephesians 1:4 must be corporate:

If we had been chosen individually before creation, they we would always have been a people chosen by God. We would never have existed as "not a people." However 1 Peter 2:10 says we were once "not a people." Therefore the election of Ephesians 1:4 was corporate, not individual. It is a lock.

 

[Calminian]

LOL, the OP presented...

Hence the problem. The OP'er doesn't understand Calvinism, Arminianism, or the biblical teachings on election. Referring to the premise of your owns posts is circular reasoning by definition.

 

[AustinC]

Van, you make no points of any value. You claim corporate election, which is not supported hermeneutically. Just claiming you have Bible verses is irrelevant. Many wrong doctrines are formed from poor hermeneutics derived from reading the Bible. Joseph Smith and Charles Taze Russell had Bible verses for their claims.
Van, I and others have already refuted your claims regarding your corporate election theory. We have shown that you are wrong. There is nothing more to say.

 

[Van]

LOL, the two posts (#33 &34) offer generalized "taint so" comments without a shed of biblical support. And then the claim that in the unreferenced past, one or more points of the ELECT doctrine has been "refuted."

1) They deny the concept of corporate election. However Dr. Dan Wallace agrees with many others, corporate election is a biblical concept. Their opposing argument: Taint so.

2) They dismiss the biblical support saying the verses do not say what they say because of "Poor Hermeneutics."

3) Did either address post #32? Nope, except to imply "taint so." No scriptural support in opposition to any of the ELECT points was presented.

Returning to the Biblical ELECT doctrine:

God chooses for salvation individuals that love and trust in Him. James 2:5


2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

 

[MB]

Unbelievable absurdity, as being individually chosen based on faith is not Calvinism.

It's not just election. It's the fact there are no Gentiles ever called elect in scripture. You try to lump Gentiles and Jews together yet we have never been together. Just because we are the same in the eyes of the Lord doesn't make us elect nor them non-elect. The term has always been used to describe a true Jew. It"s never been used to describe a Gentile and all the churches started by Paul were most;ly Jews. This is why He taught in the synagogues.Except for Athens and from Jails

Did he tell the roman guard at the Jail he was in that because the Jailer and his family believed that they were elect NO
MB.

 

[Van]

It's not just election. It's the fact there are no Gentiles ever called elect in scripture. You try to lump Gentiles and Jews together yet we have never been together. Just because we are the same in the eyes of the Lord doesn't make us elect nor them non-elect. The term has always been used to describe a true Jew. It"s never been used to describe a Gentile and all the churches started by Paul were most;ly Jews. This is why He taught in the synagogues.Except for Athens and from Jails

Did he tell the roman guard at the Jail he was in that because the Jailer and his family believed that they were elect NO
MB.

Sir, you falsely claimed the ELECT doctrine was Calvinism. You did not post a "oops" retraction.
There is no need to go into another topic such as the corporate election of the Old Covenant of Abraham and his believing descendants which did not include Gentiles as a group. Of course several OT saints were Gentiles, such as Ruth.

Try to study the ELECT doctrine and see if it conflicts with your understanding of scripture. But please do not claim it is Calvinism, as that is an absurdity.

 

[Van]

Point 3 of the ELECT doctrine:
3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

1) What is the basis for the claim Christ's propitiation is sufficient to save all men? Christ laid down His life as a "ransom" for all. Not all kinds of people, or all the elect, but all people. Why claim "all people" is the meaning? Because 2 Peter 2:1 teaches Christ "bought" people heading for swift destruction. Thus non-elect.

2) How is "reconciliation" (salvation) received? 2 Corinthians 5:20-21 indicates we receive the reconciliation when we are "in Him." But what is the basis for God putting us "in Him." 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we were chosen for salvation through "sanctification by the Spirit" ( the Spirit setting us apart in Christ) on the basis of "faith in the truth." Thus when God credits our faith as righteousness, (Romans 4:4-5; 4:23-24) He transfers us into the kingdom of His Beloved Son. (Colossians 1:13).

3) What scripture indicates we were "baptized into Christ?" 1 Corinthians 12:13 This is the sanctifying work of the Spirit, and the means by which we were baptized into Christ. Romans 6:3

4) Being transferred into Christ puts us "together with Christ" and thus results in life (Ephesians 2:5).

 

[MB]

Sir, you falsely claimed the ELECT doctrine was Calvinism. You did not post a "oops" retraction.
There is no need to go into another topic such as the corporate election of the Old Covenant of Abraham and his believing descendants which did not include Gentiles as a group. Of course several OT saints were Gentiles, such as Ruth.

Try to study the ELECT doctrine and see if it conflicts with your understanding of scripture. But please do not claim it is Calvinism, as that is an absurdity.

your thinking it's absurd or not doesn't matter. Election for Gentiles is as false as it gets. It's extra biblical IOW's created by Gentiles who are jealous of the Jews. By men who wish they could replace the Jews.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Unbelievable absurdity, as being individually chosen based on faith is not Calvinism.

No, but Election is based upon the will of God, per the individual saved sinner!