The Effects Of Calvinism On Scripture

[Particular]

I disagree that it's God's will that men cannot resist God's will. Men have done it since the beginning of time and it's recorded in scripture.
Luk_13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Maybe your just to blinded by your own pride to admit the truth of scripture that is why you try to rewrite it with every word that comes out of your mouth.You cannot show scripture to back up your claims because no scripture says what you claim.


You are so dishonest shame on you. If God controls sin then how come there is so much of it How is it that you can sin is this also God's will?

God's grace covers me and protects me from the darts of the wicked. Read your own post a see the hatred in your replies. Hatred just oozes. I from your pours. I'll keep praying for your resistance to the truth.
MB

First, your verse in Luke 13 has nothing to do with humans having the capacity to resist God.

Second, it is purely God's mercy and grace that keeps us from the flames of hell. We dangle like spiders over an open pit while God holds the thread and determines our fate.
Pray his mercy and grace remain and that his promises are true. We have no control. Learn that fact and accept it. Find contentment in God's promise.

 

[MB]

First, your verse in Luke 13 has nothing to do with humans having the capacity to resist God.

You have convinced me that you refuse to accept the truth. Your are resisting God's truth right now and you don't even know it.
Open your eyes
.

Second, it is purely God's mercy and grace that keeps us from the flames of hell. We dangle like spiders over an open pit while God holds the thread and determines our fate.

Fatalism is false.My Salvation is sealed. I'm sorry to hear you are dangling over a pit hoping God won't let go. For my self my Salvation is secure and will never fail.

Pray his mercy and grace remain and that his promises are true. We have no control. Learn that fact and accept it. Find contentment in God's promise.

I already belong to Christ and I'm sure of His promises do not need testing. I surrendered my control to Him long ago and I have no doubts of Jesus Christ as my Savior.
MB

 

[Particular]

You have convinced me that you refuse to accept the truth. Your are resisting God's truth right now and you don't even know it.
Open your eyes
.


Fatalism is false.My Salvation is sealed. I'm sorry to hear you are dangling over a pit hoping God won't let go. For my self my Salvation is secure and will never fail.



I already belong to Christ and I'm sure of His promises do not need testing. I surrendered my control to Him long ago and I have no doubts of Jesus Christ as my Savior.
MB

God wrestles control from us, MB. We do not give it up willingly. In fact, you and I daily fight against God. This is precisely why his grace is new every morning. It is precisely why God tells Paul, "my grace is sufficient for you."

Your own belligerence against the Sovereignty of God over your life is proof that you fight for control.

 

[MB]

God wrestles control from us, MB. We do not give it up willingly. In fact, you and I daily fight against God. This is precisely why his grace is new every morning. It is precisely why God tells Paul, "my grace is sufficient for you."

Your own belligerence against the Sovereignty of God over your life is proof that you fight for control.

There is no reason for me to believe in God's sovereignty. It is not in scripture that He is only Sovereign. Like I've said many times God is all mighty all powerful no sovereign is anything close to what My God is.My God is above all there is Sovereignty would degrade His greatness. He loose nothingby granting me repentance. He looses nothing by granting me a choice for Salvation.
MB

 

[Particular]

There is no reason for me to believe in God's sovereignty. It is not in scripture that He is only Sovereign. Like I've said many times God is all mighty all powerful no sovereign is anything close to what My God is.My God is above all there is Sovereignty would degrade His greatness. He loose nothingby granting me repentance. He looses nothing by granting me a choice for Salvation.
MB

And there we have the answer.
Despite the Sovereignty of God oozing from every page, word and letter of scripture, you reject it. You make God less than Supreme and less than perfect. The problem lies entirely with your self. You have made yourself your own god. Good luck with that MB. You can claim whatever you wish and whine about what I said, but you deny the Supremacy of God and see God as less than Supreme. The problem is entirely with you.

 

[Iconoclast]

You mean you're not going to accuse me of being a heretic. How nice of you. I am a born again Christian who loves God and truth with all my heart. I'm Baptist if that helps

Actually Peter said:
2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance
Nope there is no elect mentioned here in this verse you are adding to the text.

Nope no elect here either.

Please note this last verse you Quoted says nothing about the elect. But is does mention this"that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life;"
Imagine everyone not just the elect but everyone
MB

These verses say nothing about being born again either.

 

[Walpole]

Let us look at your assertion:

When we read scripture of the account, it becomes very obvious that God ordained Judas for the role of betrayer. Not only does Jesus declare it to be so, but upon declaration God gives Satan the authority to enter Judas and thus bring about the betrayal.

Your assertion is therefore shown to be false as scripture shows us that God willed the betrayal of Jesus and Judas fulfilled his role according to God's Sovereign plan.

That may make you cringe and fight against scripture, but the evidence is in scripture.
Your assertion is false.

John 13:16-19,21-27

Truly, truly, I say to you, a servantis not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them. I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled,‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’ I am telling you this now, before it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe that I am he.

After saying these things, Jesus was troubled in his spirit, and testified, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.” The disciples looked at one another, uncertain of whom he spoke. One of his disciples, whom Jesus loved, was reclining at table at Jesus’ side, so Simon Peter motioned to him to ask Jesus of whom he was speaking. So that disciple, leaning back against Jesus, said to him, “Lord, who is it?” Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I will give this morsel of bread when I have dipped it.” So when he had dipped the morsel, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. Then after he had taken the morsel, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, “What you are going to do, do quickly.”


Luke 22:3,21-22 Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve.

But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table. For the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom he is betrayed!”

Nothing you wrote addresses the fact, Judas, before he would "fall away" (Acts 1:25), was explicitly called the following by our Blessed Lord / Scripture:

- A "disciple" (Mt. 10:1)
- An "Apostle" (Mt. 10:2-4)
- "One of the twelve" (Luke 22:47)
- Sent "to proclaim the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:2)
- "Chosen" (John 6:70)
- A "sheep" (Mt. 10:16)
- A "friend" (Mt. 26:50)

---> You cannot fall away from that which you did not belong. Judas not only resisted grace, he resisted Him who is the source of all grace.

 

[Walpole]

Your talking about saved people whom the Lord had made free, if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. But 'free' to do what? To be God's slave, a slave of righteousness. Man is not free, he always belongs to another. Either to sin as sin's slave (devil), or of righteousness, to be the slave of God.

Romans 6
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

There is no libertarian free will.

No, I'm talking about every single human being, who is made in the image and likeness of God. This means man can know and love. For love necessitates free will, since it is an act of the will.

If man is not free, then he cannot be rewarded for his choices (e.g. faith, hope, charity, etc.), nor can he be punished for his actions. You cannot have a moral universe unless man is free.

"Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." - C.S. Lewis

 

[Walpole]

Matthew 10, honestly, Jesus did not speak of all of them. He did identify Judas Iscariot as a DEVIL.

Jesus also calls Peter, Satan. (cf. Mt. 16:23)

And no devil would Jesus refer to as one of His sheep.
16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

Jesus explicitly calls Peter and Judas sheep.

"Behold, I am sending you [the twelve] out as sheep in the midst of wolves." (Mt. 10:16)

"And Jesus said to them [the twelve], 'You will all fall away, for it is written, 'I will strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered.'" (Mk 14:27)

John 13:17-19 New King James Version (NKJV)
17 If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.
Jesus Identifies His Betrayer
18 “I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’ 19 Now I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe that I am He.

And of what was Christ speaking, well He was speaking only to His apostles and not Judas, even though Christ had chosen Him, but see this man was not to be saved as he was an unclean devil, he was chosen only to be the betrayer, there was never any plan of God or Christ for Judas Iscariot to be saved. Judas was never a saved believer in Christ, Judas Iscariot was unclean.

10 Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.”

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

Sometimes sheep, like Judas, get lost and fall away. (Acts 1:25). You cannot fall away from that which you never belonged to.

 

[Particular]

Nothing you wrote addresses the fact, Judas, before he would "fall away" (Acts 1:25), was explicitly called the following by our Blessed Lord / Scripture:

- A "disciple" (Mt. 10:1)
- An "Apostle" (Mt. 10:2-4)
- "One of the twelve" (Luke 22:47)
- Sent "to proclaim the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:2)
- "Chosen" (John 6:70)
- A "sheep" (Mt. 10:16)
- A "friend" (Mt. 26:50)

---> You cannot fall away from that which you did not belong. Judas not only resisted grace, he resisted Him who is the source of all grace.

God created and called Pharoah to harden his heart. God created and called the Babylonians to overthrow Judah. God created Judas to betray Christ.
The passages I provided show Jesus Sovereign control over Judas and his betrayal. You have to wrestle with what scripture declares. Your argument is not with me, it is with God.

 

[Particular]

Nothing you wrote addresses the fact, Judas, before he would "fall away" (Acts 1:25), was explicitly called the following by our Blessed Lord / Scripture:

- A "disciple" (Mt. 10:1)
- An "Apostle" (Mt. 10:2-4)
- "One of the twelve" (Luke 22:47)
- Sent "to proclaim the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:2)
- "Chosen" (John 6:70)
- A "sheep" (Mt. 10:16)
- A "friend" (Mt. 26:50)

---> You cannot fall away from that which you did not belong. Judas not only resisted grace, he resisted Him who is the source of all grace.

Your reference to John 6:70 actually condemns your argument.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

Notice that Jesus tells Judas, ahead of time, that he is destined to destruction.
Jesus chose him, not unto salvation, but to fulfill the role of betrayer as God declared.

 

[Walpole]

God created and called Pharoah to harden his heart. God created and called the Babylonians to overthrow Judah. God created Judas to betray Christ.
The passages I provided show Jesus Sovereign control over Judas and his betrayal. You have to wrestle with what scripture declares. Your argument is not with me, it is with God.

No, my argument is with you, not with God. The words of Scripture are plain. For you cannot fall away from that which you never belonged.

"While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled." - John 17:12

Judas not only resisted grace, he resisted He who is the source of all grace.

 

[Particular]

No, I'm talking about every single human being, who is made in the image and likeness of God. This means man can know and love. For love necessitates free will, since it is an act of the will.

If man is not free, then he cannot be rewarded for his choices (e.g. faith, hope, charity, etc.), nor can he be punished for his actions. You cannot have a moral universe unless man is free.

"Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." - C.S. Lewis

C.S. Lewis was an apologist, not a theologian. C.S. Lewis was utterly wrong about free will. It was his synergist teachings within the Episcopal Church that lead him down a theological dead end that he could not resolve.
As an apologist, brilliant. As a theologian, weak.

 

[Walpole]

Your reference to John 6:70 actually condemns your argument.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

Notice that Jesus tells Judas, ahead of time, that he is destined to destruction.
Jesus chose him, not unto salvation, but to fulfill the role of betrayer as God declared.

Jesus is God, and as such, knows all things from the beginning...

"But Jesus would not entrust Himself to them, for he know all people. He did not need any testimony about mankind, for He know what was in each person." - John 2:24-25

Scripture clearly says Judas was chosen by Christ and was one of the twelve. Judas is explicitly called:

- A "disciple" (Mt. 10:1)
- An "Apostle" (Mt. 10:2-4)
- "One of the twelve" (Luke 22:47)
- Sent "to proclaim the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:2)
- "Chosen" (John 6:70)
- A "sheep" (Mt. 10:16)
- A "friend" (Mt. 26:50)


You cannot fall away from that which one never belonged. Judas not only resisted grace, he resisted He who is the source of all grace.

 

[Walpole]

C.S. Lewis was an apologist, not a theologian. C.S. Lewis was utterly wrong about free will. It was his synergist teachings within the Episcopal Church that lead him down a theological dead end that he could not resolve.
As an apologist, brilliant. As a theologian, weak.

C.S. Lewis was not Episcopal; he was Anglican.

Many Evangelicals struggle with Lewis for obvious reasons...

 

[Particular]

Jesus is God, and as such, knows all things from the beginning...

"But Jesus would not entrust Himself to them, for he know all people. He did not need any testimony about mankind, for He know what was in each person." - John 2:24-25

Scripture clearly says Judas was chosen by Christ and was one of the twelve. Judas is explicitly called:

- A "disciple" (Mt. 10:1)
- An "Apostle" (Mt. 10:2-4)
- "One of the twelve" (Luke 22:47)
- Sent "to proclaim the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:2)
- "Chosen" (John 6:70)
- A "sheep" (Mt. 10:16)
- A "friend" (Mt. 26:50)


You cannot fall away from that which one never belonged. Judas not only resisted grace, he resisted He who is the source of all grace.

Judas was chosen to be the betrayer. Your own verses show this.

 

[Particular]

C.S. Lewis was not Episcopal; he was Anglican.

Many Evangelicals struggle with Lewis for obvious reasons...

Same thing. Look it up.

 

[Walpole]

Same thing. Look it up.

FYI, Lewis was not an American.

---> Anglican, or Episcopalian? | Jordan Hylden

 

[Walpole]

Judas was chosen to be the betrayer. Your own verses show this.

Only in Calvin's supralapsarianism.

However, Scripture states Judas was chosen as one of the twelve. He was chosen to be a "disciple" (Mt. 10:1), an "Apostle" (Mt. 10:2-4), "to proclaim the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:2), a "sheep" (Mt. 10:16) a "friend" (Mt. 26:50), and to reign and rule with Christ (Mt. 19:28).

But, like some sheep, Judas fell away (Acts 1:25). You cannot fall away from that which you never belonged.


If Calvinism were true, then Judas should be the poster child of this belief. He would have to be the religion’s patron saint, looking down on you now from the glory of heaven.

The reality is some people believe and end up losing their faith and falling away, as Jesus Himself said happens. (cf. Luke 8:13). In the case of Judas, he not only resisted grace, he resisted Him who is the source of all grace.

 

[Particular]

FYI, Lewis was not an American.

---> Anglican, or Episcopalian? | Jordan Hylden

Big deal. Same church, just different title.
Essentially it's Roman Catholic light, which means it's synergist in teachings. Very much similar to free will Arminians like Nazarenes and Pentacostals. Poor theology, but a good apologist.