Particular
Well-Known Member
How much clearer can Jesus be?
“Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
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The Effects Of Calvinism On Scripture
- Thread starter MB
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“Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Particular
Well-Known Member
Do you show the same "reverence" for inspiration?
And yet, God is not equal to all men. He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardeneth.
That's what He said and you don't believe Him. You believe the man has to be elect first. A false doctrine.restricting God on who He can save.
Not true. Is that all the scripture you know Funny God has never dragged anyone anywhere. Jonah resisted God. Then God caused a large fish to swallow him. We have to remember Jonah was already God's servant..He was an elect Jew the only elect of God.
Not true at all Pharaoh's heart was already hard and election had nothing to do with it. You must not read very well
And you think the Calvinist has a problem with the Scriptures? Let the noncalvinist wresting of these be a lesson to anyone.
oooooh I'm so scared of the big bad Calvinist. Calvinism is only half truths which means it's completely nonsense and confusion.
Absolute nonsense
I don't think he would acknowledge you as a Calvinist but rather pridefully agnostic.
MB
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Being born of God is nothing to do with our will, only God's will.
Unless you are born of God first, you wont receive Him as your Lord.
That truth goes contrary to what most people think happens about being born again.
A baby naturally born has no control over its existence, and neither does any person have any control over their new birth.
And unless you are born again you can not 'see' (perceive) the kingdom of God, or heaven, which is all about Christ.
John 1 specifically excludes the will of the man in being born of God. So we did not desire Him. He desired us first, so then we love God because He first loved us. And God demonstrates to us that love by making us begotten again and so we then receive him.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
We are born again according to His mercy and not by anything we do.
We sealed in the Holy Spirit after we believe unto salvation as a guarantee, the outcome of Him making us born again is we believe from the heart and we confess Him as Lord.
1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
And we are kept by the power of God through means of the gifting of faith. All His people have been gifted their faith.
Romans 12:3
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
Oh sacrilegious! The word Sovereign is not in scripture. Sovereignty is what Calvinist call Him. The Bible calls Him God..God is what He is and there is nothing higher.
MB
Particular
Well-Known Member
Indeed, there is nothing higher. He is Supreme. He is Sovereign.
The term Lord, means Sovereign. You attempt to strain a gnat in order to demand that you have control over your self.
MB, we are either subjects under Satan or under Christ Jesus. We never rule our selves. We are never free. We are always subject under someone who rules over us.
You claim Jesus is your Lord and Savior. In so doing, you declare that he is your Sovereign.
Yet, you fight at the bit against God, declaring that God is not your King, your Sovereign. Somehow you want him to be your Savior, but not your Sovereign King.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Bingo!
With God's grace, man can not only keep the commandments, but do so with love.
"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome." - 1 John 5:2-3
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Glad to help. Sometimes I wonder if you guys read the Scriptures...
"While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost EXCEPT the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled." - John 17:12
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Walpole
Well-Known Member
Jesus explicitly calls Judas a sheep. Unless you believe Judas is in heaven looking down upon you in glory, then his example destroys Calvinism. For Judas not only resisted grace, he resisted He who is the source of all grace.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Sheep are elect. Judas might not have been.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Most Protestants believe sheep to be synonymous with "the saved." I have demonstrated our Blessed Lord explicitly calls Judas a sheep.
Hence, if Calvinism is true, Judas must be its patron saint. He must be looking down upon them now from the glory of heaven.
Particular
Well-Known Member
No
Keeping commandments doesn't save you. Jesus said that with man it is impossible.
You are confusing salvation, which is by grace alone (unmerited on our part), with sanctification, which works in us, who have been saved, to follow God's commands.
You are rejecting grace and attempting to be saved by works (keeping commandments). Paul's letter to the Galatians condemns your legalistic attempt to keep salvation by works. The entire letter is aimed toward calling your thinking "anathema."
Your error is a significant error that God directly addresses through Paul. You should read Galatians because it condemns your theology.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
No, Judas was a wolf among the sheep and never a believer. He was a devil. Chosen by Christ according to prophecy to be the betrayer. Judas also was not around for all the teaching past the middle of John 13, so the things Christ said to the disciples, Judas had no part of. Judas did not take part in the last supper, he left after the bread was being distributed, and it does not say he ate it, this was a shared experience, they were to eat it together and he left, and never took the cup. He had no part in Christ.
Why Was Judas Carrying the Moneybag?
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Walpole
Well-Known Member
Odd that you would invoke St. Paul's letter to the Galatians, for in it, he warns the faithful there (what you would presumably call "the saved") that if they fail to keep the commandments, they will not inherit the kingdom of God...
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Sorry but Jesus calls Judas a sheep. He never calls him a wolf.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Wow! You completely miss the entire meaning of the letter don't you.
Galatians 1:6-8 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 2:4-5 Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
Galatians 2:16-21 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Galatians 3:1-7 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”? Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Galatians 3:10-18 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. To give a human example, brothers:even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
Galatians 3:19-29 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one. Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Galatians 4:1-9 I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God. Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
Galatians 4:21-31 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.” Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
Galatians 5:1,7-10,13-25 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion is not from him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view, and the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is. For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another. But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.
Nothing original here. Calvinist must have a book of responses
They can't think for them selves.More quotes from there book of responses. Noting original.
Yet Christ said;
Mat_7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
There is no such thing as gifted faith. The Gift is Salvation. All men are dealt a measure of faith. It's up to us to place that faith in Christ by being convinced of the gospel..
And Calvinist say we can't believe because we are dead.
MB
Doesn't matter what Sovereign means. It isn't in scripture so why are you so concerned with it. I disagree with your terminology and not the position of God. You attempt to make God helpless by election. According to Calvinism God cannot save a man unless he is elect. This is placing restrictions on God and election is not for Gentiles but the Jews only. No where in scripture does it ever say Gentiles are elect.
MB
Walpole
Well-Known Member
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