The Effects Of Calvinism On Scripture

[Walpole]

Big deal. Same church, just different title.
Essentially it's Roman Catholic light, which means it's synergist in teachings. Very much similar to free will Arminians like Nazarenes and Pentacostals. Poor theology, but a good apologist.

Evangelicals have difficulty with his theology for obvious reasons...

 

[MB]

And there we have the answer.
Despite the Sovereignty of God oozing from every page, word and letter of scripture, you reject it. You make God less than Supreme and less than perfect. The problem lies entirely with your self. You have made yourself your own god. Good luck with that MB. You can claim whatever you wish and whine about what I said, but you deny the Supremacy of God and see God as less than Supreme. The problem is entirely with you.

What you really mean is you have your own answer. I'm convinced you don't know or care about what you are saying you only wish to win the argument with insults. I'll not playing your little games any longer. I will not answer your hateful post anymore.
MB

 

[Particular]

Evangelicals have difficulty with his theology for obvious reasons...

Expand I this, cause it's not so obvious. Most evanjellyfish are synergists like Lewis.

 

[Particular]

What you really mean is you have your own answer. I'm convinced you don't know or care about what you are saying you only wish to win the argument with insults. I'll not playing your little games any longer. I will not answer your hateful post anymore.
MB

No.
I mean what I said.
The Bible oozes with God's Sovereignty from every word and letter. You simply won't accept it because you reject all the synonyms that speak to God's Sovereignty. Many English versions translate these as... Sovereign. You reject this. The problem is entirely yours. Keep setting up your crutch.

 

[Walpole]

Expand I this, cause it's not so obvious. Most evanjellyfish are synergists like Lewis.

Most Evangelicals have difficulty with Lewis because he did not have the same faith that they do. For he was a high church Anglican.

And of course Lewis was an synergist, for he was a devout Christian. "Seek", "forgive", "have faith", "believe", "practice charity" etc. etc ---> All things Christ implored man to do

 

[Particular]

Most Evangelicals have difficulty with Lewis because he did not have the same faith that they do. For he was a high church Anglican.

And of course Lewis was an synergist, for he was devote Christian. "Seek", "forgive", "have faith", "believe", "practice charity" etc. etc ---> All things Christ implored man to do

He struggled with grace...as do all synergists. Humans, by nature, want the law and works to be their saving merit. They struggle to accept or admit that their salvation was attained solely by God, without their assistance.

 

[Walpole]

He struggled with grace...as do all synergists. Humans, by nature, want the law and works to be their saving merit. They struggle to accept or admit that their salvation was attained solely by God, without their assistance.

Obviously you haven't read his works, for he wrote extensively on grace.

To the contrary, humans, by nature, want to avoid responsibility. They want cheap grace whereby they can stand by idle in the marketplace. The Kingdom of God is for the laborers.

---> Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 20:1-16 - New International Version


"Seek", "believe", "have faith", "practice charity", "obey the commandments", etc ---> Are things Christ implored man to do

 

[Particular]

Obviously you haven't read his works, for he wrote extensively on grace.

To the contrary, humans, by nature, want to avoid responsibility. They want cheap grace whereby they can stand by idle in the marketplace. The Kingdom of God is for the laborers.

---> Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 20:1-16 - New International Version


"Seek", "believe", "have faith", "practice charity", "obey the commandments", etc ---> Are things Christ implored man to do

I have. Mere Christianity and his chapter on "The Great Sin" is excellent. He was a great apologist, just a lousy theologian.
Seek: Romans 3 says no one seems God. You have to deal with that.
Believe: Dead men cannot believe. Only those whom God makes alive can believe.
Faith: Faith is a gift from God so that no one can boast in their own salvation.
Practice Charity: has nothing to do with salvation, but it is an evidence that God exists and His Spirit is active in the earth. Even atheists are charitable.
Obey the Commandments: has nothing to do with salvation, but can be an evidence of salvation. Jews and Muslims discipline themselves to obey commands in an attempt to merit God's favor. The Bible says that such an attempt results in missing the mark and spiritual death.

You don't seem to understand grace, Walpole. It means...unmerited favor. Unmerited means...we didn't work to get it.

 

[Walpole]

I have. Mere Christianity and his chapter on "The Great Sin" is excellent. He was a great apologist, just a lousy theologian.

Mere Christianity was but one of 19 books he wrote. Grace was a common theme of his, even in his fictional books. The first that comes to mind is The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, the great allegory of the Christian journey of self-sacrifice out of love for others, and abandonment to providence and grace.

I suspect you believe he was a lousy theologian because his theology conflicts with yours.

Seek: Romans 3 says no one seems God. You have to deal with that.

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you." - Matthew 7:7

Believe: Dead men cannot believe. Only those whom God makes alive can believe.

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” - Mark 1:15

"If you find that I do not act like the son of my Father, then put no trust in me; but if I do, then let my actions convince you where I cannot; so you will recognize and learn to believe that the Father is in me, and I in him." - John 10:37-38

Faith: Faith is a gift from God so that no one can boast in their own salvation.

"And Jesus answered them, 'Have faith in God.'" - Mark 11:22

Practice Charity: has nothing to do with salvation, but it is an evidence that God exists and His Spirit is active in the earth. Even atheists are charitable.

"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." - 1 Cor 13:13

Obey the Commandments: has nothing to do with salvation, but can be an evidence of salvation. Jews and Muslims discipline themselves to obey commands in an attempt to merit God's favor. The Bible says that such an attempt results in missing the mark and spiritual death.

"And behold, a man came up to him, saying, 'Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?' 'If you would enter life, keep the commandments.'” - Matthew 19:16-17

"Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God." - 1 Cor 7:19

You don't seem to understand grace, Walpole. It means...unmerited favor. Unmerited means...we didn't work to get it.

Grace is a gift of God and does not have its origin in man. It is not something man does...

---> “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. - Eph 2:8-9

This is Christianity 101.

 

[Particular]

Mere Christianity was but one of 19 books he wrote. Grace was a common theme of his, even in his fictional books. The first that comes to mind is The Hobbit, the great allegory of the Christian journey of self-sacrifice out of love for others, and abandonment to providence and grace.

I suspect you believe he was a lousy theologian because his theology conflicts with yours.




"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you." - Matthew 7:7




"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” - Mark 1:15

"If you find that I do not act like the son of my Father, then put no trust in me; but if I do, then let my actions convince you where I cannot; so you will recognize and learn to believe that the Father is in me, and I in him." - John 10:37-38




"And Jesus answered them, 'Have faith in God.'" - Mark 11:22




"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." - 1 Cor 13:13




"And behold, a man came up to him, saying, 'Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?' 'If you would enter life, keep the commandments.'” - Matthew 19:16-17

"Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God." - 1 Cor 7:19




Grace is a gift of God and does not have its origin in man. It is not something man does...

---> “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. - Eph 2:8-9

This is Christianity 101.

None of those verses pertain to salvation.
Second, the Hobbit was written by Tolkien, a Roman Catholic.
So, you wiff and strike out with your post.

 

[Walpole]

None of those verses pertain to salvation.
Second, the Hobbit was written by Tolkien, a Roman Catholic.
So, you wiff and strike out with your post.

You don't think "eternal life" pertains to salvation?

You don't think "faith" pertains to salvation?

You don't think "love" pertains to salvation?

Yes...my typo. I meant, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. (I'll correct the post.)

 

[Particular]

You don't think "eternal life" pertains to salvation?

You don't think "faith" pertains to salvation?

You don't think "love" pertains to salvation?

Yes...my typo. I meant, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. (I'll correct the post.)

Not in the verses you are claiming.

The Chronicles of Narnia are not theology. They have some basic analogy, but no one will be saved by reading the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

 

[Walpole]

Not in the verses you are claiming.

Really? What exactly do you think this is referencing:

"And behold, a man came up to him, saying, 'Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?' 'If you would enter life, keep the commandments.'” - Matthew 19:16-17

The Chronicles of Narnia are not theology. They have some basic analogy, but no one will be saved by reading the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

Straw man ---> No one argued one will be saved by reading The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

Rather, it was introduced as an example of Lewis' understanding of grace, which permeates the Christian allegory that is The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

 

[Particular]

Really? What exactly do you think this is referencing:

"And behold, a man came up to him, saying, 'Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?' 'If you would enter life, keep the commandments.'” - Matthew 19:16-17




Straw man ---> No one argued one will be saved by reading The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

Rather, it was introduced as an example of Lewis' understanding of grace, which permeates the Christian allegory that is The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

The man wanted to be saved by his good works. Let us read the entire passage and the final statement by Jesus. You should see how grossly wrong you are in missing Jesus point.

Matthew 19:16-26 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

 

[Walpole]

The man wanted to be saved by his good works. Let us read the entire passage and the final statement by Jesus. You should see how grossly wrong you are in missing Jesus point.

Matthew 19:16-26 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

How much clearer can Jesus be?

Jesus —> 'If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

 

[Aaron]

Yes, even Spurgeon rebuked Calvinists for their wrenching of I Timothy 2:4 to fit their grand scheme:

"What then? Shall we try to put another meaning into the text than that which it fairly bears? I trow not. You must, most of you, be acquainted with the general method in which our older Calvinistic friends deal with this text. "All men," say they, —"that is, some men": as if the Holy Ghost could not have said "some men" if he had meant some men. "All men," say they; "that is, some of all sorts of men": as if the Lord could not have said "all sorts of men" if he had meant that. The Holy Ghost by the apostle has written "all men," and unquestionably he means all men. I know how to get rid of the force of the "alls" according to that critical method which some time ago was very current, but I do not see how it can be applied here with due regard to truth. I was reading just now the exposition of a very able doctor who explains the text so as to explain it away; he applies grammatical gunpowder to it, and explodes it by way of expounding it. I thought when I read his exposition that it would have been a very capital comment upon the text if it had read, "Who will not have all men to be saved, nor come to a knowledge of the truth."Had such been the inspired language every remark of the learned doctor would have been exactly in keeping, but as it happens to say, "Who will have all men to be saved," his observations are more than a little out of place. My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the word of God. I never thought it to be any very great crime to seem to be inconsistent with myself, for who am I that I should everlastingly be consistent? But I do think it a great crime to be so inconsistent with the word of God that I should want to lop away a bough or even a twig from so much as a single tree of the forest of Scripture. God forbid that I should cut or shape, even in the least degree, any divine expression. So runs the text, and so we must read it, "God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."" —"Salvation By Knowing the Truth"

Do you show the same "reverence" for inspiration?

And yet, God is not equal to all men. He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardeneth.

God dragged a prophet to Nineveh resisting, kicking and screaming and looking for every opportunity to escape that He might have mercy on them.

He did not deal thusly with Sodom.

He sent a prophet to Egypt. Each time Pharaoh softened, God hardened his heart that He might judge Him, and show that election is NOT of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. (At least according to Paul, who applied this to the spread of the Gospel.)

And you think the Calvinist has a problem with the Scriptures? Let the noncalvinist wresting of these be a lesson to anyone.

As Spurgeon said, "Calivinism is the gospel, and nothing else." Charles Spurgeon: “Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus also calls Peter, Satan. (cf. Mt. 16:23)



Jesus explicitly calls Peter and Judas sheep.

"Behold, I am sending you [the twelve] out as sheep in the midst of wolves." (Mt. 10:16)

"And Jesus said to them [the twelve], 'You will all fall away, for it is written, 'I will strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered.'" (Mk 14:27)





Sometimes sheep, like Judas, get lost and fall away. (Acts 1:25). You cannot fall away from that which you never belonged to.

What is with this Judas love?
Judas was never one of the sheep of Christ, Chris't sheep never go to hell.
Jesus did not pray for Judas.
When Satan desired to sift Peter like wheat, Jesus tells Peter he had prayed for Peter and that Peter would return to Him.
Jesus only prays for those the Father has given Him, you will find no scripture that says Jesus prayed for Judas when Judas acted like a devil, he lived up to his true nature. After Judas agreed to betray Christ, Jesus did not say He was praying for Judas, Jesus tells Judas to do it quickly.

John 17:9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

The Father did not give Judas to Christ as a believer in Him.
The Father did NOT give Judas to Christ as one of His sheep. John 10:25-29
If Judas was one of Christ's sheep, he would not have been lost and a devil. Christ would have given Judas eternal life and Judas would not have gone to hell.

Sheep are saved, there are no lost sheep that remain lost. None of those that the Father gives to Christ are lost, all are saved.
John 10, specifically says certain things about the sheep, and none of them have to do with damnation.

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

 

[Aaron]

Google "Judas Iscariot".

Judas, before he would "fall away" (Acts 1:25), was explicitly called the following by our Blessed Lord / Scripture:

- A "disciple" (Mt. 10:1)
- An "Apostle" (Mt. 10:2-4)
- "One of the twelve" (Luke 22:47)
- Sent "to proclaim the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:2)
- "Chosen" (John 6:70)
- A "sheep" (Mt. 10:16)
- A "friend" (Mt. 26:50)

Furthermore, Judas was predestined to reign and rule with Christ...

"So Jesus said to them [the twelve], 'Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'" Matthew 19:28

---> Judas not only resisted grace, but he resisted He who is the source of all grace. That fact pretty much destroys Calvinism.

So, Jesus did lose one after all. Glad you were here to clarify that. Otherwise I might have believed Him when He said He would lose none.

 

[Aaron]

Well, you have no clue what intellectual dishonesty is - so there is no need in continuing this.

Hey look. It's MartyF (or is that F and Marty? ) Have nothing to do with this scoffer. He openly denies the Omniscience and Omnipresence of God, and paganizes the Gospel. I'm wondering why the high council of moderators haven't yet acted.

 

[Scott Downey]

John 5:21
For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.
John 6:39
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

I suppose non calvinists must believe God's will can be prevented, but it can't.

Romans 9
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?”

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Ephesians 1:11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will