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The Effects of Calvinism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salamander, Jun 19, 2006.

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  1. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    So are you some how saying that Jesus is powerless to save the world?:praying:
     
    #61 Salamander, Jun 26, 2006
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    That is the same question I asked a few pages back...
     
    #62 webdog, Jun 26, 2006
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    In the sense that is presented in John 1, yes, Jesus is the Word made flesh.

    In Hebrews 4, we see, however, that the Bible is the referred to as the Word of God in that it is God's written word to us:

    Hebrews 4:12-13

    The Bible also tells us that the Jews were entrusted with the Word of God, referring to Scripture:

    Romans 3:1-2

    Paul exhorts Timothy to Preach the Word in the following passage:

    2 Timothy 4:1-5

    Luke tells us that the people were gathered around Jesus as he was proclaiming the Word of God here:

    Luke 5:1

    Luke also tells us that Peter and John, after being filled with the Holy Spirit, preached the Word of God:

    Acts 4:31

    1 Thessalonians 2:13

    1 Corinthians 14:36-38

    2 Corinthians 2:17

    2 Corinthians 4:1-6

    Galatians 6:6

    Ephesians 6:17

    Collosians 1:24-27

    As to your assertion that Jesus came not to condemn the world:

    Romans 3:5-8

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #63 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 26, 2006
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I have said no such thing. Would you and webdog please quit slandering me by making things up and attributing them to me?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #64 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 26, 2006
  5. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    "Creative." But Calvinists admit that they are "totally depraved" to begin with as well -- so how is God their master any more that He is "Master" of the lost? All in the world that the lost are is "elect" before they are regenerated! I don't see your point at all.

    skypair
     
    #65 skypair, Jun 26, 2006
  6. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    It's just like Joseph said. We follow our master, our sin nature, until God sets us free. After He sets us free we have a new master, God, and we freely choose to follow Him.
     
    #66 whatever, Jun 26, 2006
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ...then why do those who are set free still follow the old master from time to time? What kind of master would allow a slave to return to his old master on occasion?
     
    #67 webdog, Jun 26, 2006
  8. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    I guess God just doesn't know what He is doing?
    :confused:
    Maybe you can tell me why.
     
    #68 whatever, Jun 26, 2006
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Maybe because the slave / master analogy is just that...an analogy, and doesn't fit freedom to choose. Ever think that unbelievers are slaves to their master (satan) because they CHOOSE to be? If you are going to use the master / slave analogy, it has to be applied across the board. If we are allowed freedom to choose while serving one master, the freedom has to be there for the other as well.
     
    #69 webdog, Jun 26, 2006
  10. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Of course unbelievers are slaves to their master because they choose to be. Absolutely.

    But to say that because those with two natures can choose according to either nature, then those with one nature can also choose according to either nature, is just illogical. (Not to mention unbiblical.)
     
    #70 whatever, Jun 26, 2006
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Webdog,

    My pastor is currently preaching on this very subject in the evening service. His main text is found in Romans 7 and 8. He is preaching on the doctrine of the mortification of sin.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #71 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 26, 2006
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    That's not what I'm saying. It's not about who has one nature, and who doesn't. You initially stated that once we have a "new master" our freedom to choose begins, which is illogical. Why, if God's grace is irresistable, would man not choose that which were irresistable, instead of sin? It is repeatedly stated that man in an unregenerated state will only choose that which his nature allows...sin. Well, the flip side is we are "new creations" when regenerated, so why would man EVER choose sin? The Holy Spirit seems powerless to keep His "new creation" from serving the old master. The only logical (and biblical) stance is man is free to choose in EITHER state.
     
    #72 webdog, Jun 26, 2006
  13. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Hmmm? So asking you a question is slander?

    Your "ascertain" that there are any differences in the referenced "Word" in all your verses contributed, undoubtedly enhance the fact that Jesus is the Word.

    Now if you're trying to separate Jesus from the Written Word, may I suggest you are in error to do so?

    Oh no! I just "slandered" you again, sorry.:rolleyes: :eek:

    The effects of Calvinism are this: less witnessing, less commitment to continue to witness, and complacency towards lost souls and seeing to it they are witnessed to regularly.

    Jesus will judge the world after the Millenium, just before He judges the nations as either sheep or goat nations, until then: Jesus came not into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.:praise: :Fish:
     
    #73 Salamander, Jun 27, 2006
  14. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Umm, the passage is perfectly clear, in the KJB anyway. You are servant to whom you obey, that is done by choice. But it is also accomplished by the snatching of the flesh-hook one is become ensnared with when they become addicted to sin. regardless, choice was first.

    Did Eve choose to sin? Or was it ordained of God for all men to fall? She chose, God chose to redeem all who will obey His Gospel. Adam and Eve obviously chose to put on the skins of the animals instead of the fig leaves they originally tried.

    Jesus condescended to reason with all men over their sin nature and offer them ALL salvation. men choose to believe and be converted by the Spirit of God or they choose not to obey.:praying:

    Obedience to the Gospel is the key, one does that by choice.
    :praise: :Fish: :praise:
     
    #74 Salamander, Jun 27, 2006
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    How old are you? 12? Come back when you grow up a bit and learn how to have an intelligent conversation. You have not mastered that skill yet. I am finished casting pearls before swine here.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #75 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 27, 2006
  16. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    That's not what I said at all. While lost we freely choose according to our sin nature. When God gives us a new nature we freely choose according to that new nature.
    I could explain what irresistible grace means, and more importantly what it doesn't mean, but that would take us further outside the topic. Want to go?
    Nope, you're missing it again. Two natures = conflicting choices. One nature = consistent choices. That's the logical and biblical stance. If you were correct then what Paul said about natural man not being able to understand spiritual things would have to go out the window. "Sure", you would have to say, "he can understand spiritual things. He just doesn't choose to."
     
    #76 whatever, Jun 27, 2006
  17. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    It may be, Brother, that you are posting in the wrong topic. the "ad homenim" topic is different than this one. This one is about the effects of Calvinism.

    Since you seem to advocate Calvinism, your response is just another effect transposed by the Calvinist.

    Also, since your comment to the effect of "casting pearls before swine" is such of the general application, may I suggest you don't call everyone on the BB "swine"?

    If I were only 12 years old, then one might consider how it is I have amazed such a "scholar" as yourself, but since I am a little older than 12, you must not be the "scholar" you think you are?

    I can only suppose you to think you have "mastered" the skill of intelligent conversation, but if I did, I would have to correct myself.

    Must you come across so angry every time some one asks you a question?:praying:

    :praise: :Fish: :praise:
     
    #77 Salamander, Jun 28, 2006
  18. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Umm, the natural man cannot discern the things of the Spirit for he is yet carnal, just as the Corinthians were yet carnal.

    But the natural man by his conscience can discern things that are spiritual, but he has no power to recognize them as from God. He is not subject to only discern natural things limited to only sin, his conscience will not permit that unless he is reprobate.

    All men cannot discern the Spirit until conviction for sin occurs, when that does occur, it is man who chooses to obey the Spirit or turn a deaf ear.

    The regenerate man can discern the things of the Spirit as they that are of God, but his choices will lead him in either direction to whom it is he is the servant to: the nature of sin, or the Spirit.

    For one to maintain a consistent walk with the Lord, one must obey the Spirit fully. One who isn't fully consistent in their walk will make accusations against their brethren. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who fits that description.:praying:

    :praise: :Fish: :praise:
     
    #78 Salamander, Jun 28, 2006
  19. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    I dont think your 'sarcasm' is a fruit of the Spirit!

    For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God!
    James 1 : 20

    Kindness and brotherly love accomplish much more for the Lord!
     
    #79 2BHizown, Jun 28, 2006
  20. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    What "sarcasm"?

    And why do you exhibit wrath?

    Then why the judgemental attitude?:praying:
     
    #80 Salamander, Jun 28, 2006
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