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The Elect, The Sheep, and the Like

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Revmitchell

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MB said:
National election is true for the Jews. This is the election that Calvinist claim is from birth. There is a choosing of Gentiles for Salvation This below is when.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified..

When we are justified we are then IMO chosen to be saved By Jesus Chrst. Only when we believe in Christ. We are not chosen for Salvation until we are justified. It is not called election. The only elect in the Bible are the Jews. Scripture never calls Gentiles elect I know every one tells me that both words mean the same thing. If so please explain why two different words.? You may think it's strange but everything is in the Bible. Philosophy is what Calvinist use to interpret scripture. Call it dispensationism
MB
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I agree we are elect when we are born again and not until then. The pedantic play on elect and election is not really necessary and only works to muddy the waters. Anyone who is saved is elect both Jew or gentile.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Why? It's Jesus tat saves not election. There are thousands of Jews who are lost and yet are elect. You believe in Christ I can respect that. No where does scripture ever say your Salvation is a done deal because of election.
MB
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If they never receive Christ they are not elect and not part of True Israel.
 
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Yeshua1

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davidtaylorjr said:
To continue so as not to keep hijacking the other thread, MB asked that I prove Gentiles were called elect in Scripture.

2 Timothy 2:10
Titus 1:1
Those are just a couple of instances. We know that those who are saved are part of the elect and Scripture makes clear that is both Jew and Gentile.
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One can only be part of the Elect by being saved!
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

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MB said:
That is not my meaning this is your philosophy again. No where have you ever proven that election is necessary for Salvation. Prove that it is and I'll take off my hat to you.
MB
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You won't be saved if you aren't elect because you weren't chosen to be saved. He died for the sheep. Not everyone. That's Scripture. And no, it isn't philosophy, that is what you said.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

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Revmitchell said:
So why do you believe Paul needs to endure all things for the elects sake that they may be saved.? If they are elect according to the reformed definition how is Pauls efforts (human effort) effective in the salvation of gentiles?
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God uses us as a means to reveal his grace. They must hear the preaching of the Word.
 
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Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
davidtaylorjr said:
I disagree. You were elect before the foundation of the world. You are elect even before you are saved you are just under wrath until you are saved.
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Yes, we are this here, elect means chosen for salvation
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love

If he chose us in Him we are elect, and since this happened before time began, we were elect before our existence.
 
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Revmitchell

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We are chosen "in Him" meaning we must be in Him to be elect. Before the foundation of the world as in we were chose to be what before the foundation of the world? That is the important question.

Eph_1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

That those who are "in Him" would be holy and without blame. Both elect and holy and without blame come after in Him. Cant be in Him until one believes.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
Revmitchell said:
I agree we are elect when we are born again and not until then. The pedantic play on elect and election is not really necessary and only works to muddy the waters. Anyone who is saved is elect both Jew or gentile.
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I disagree with you more often for the simple reason like the Calvinist you always think you are absolutely right your just an arminian who like the Calvinist believe in your philosophy. Which is why your hear trying to correct me. Take your nonsense else where fruit inspector
MB
 
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Revmitchell

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MB said:
I disagree with you more often for the simple reason like the Calvinist you always think you are absolutely right your just an arminian who like the Calvinist believe in your philosophy. Which is why your hear trying to correct me. Take your nonsense else where fruit inspector
MB
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Im not an arnminian but you are welcome to your misguided view.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
davidtaylorjr said:
You won't be saved if you aren't elect because you weren't chosen to be saved. He died for the sheep. Not everyone. That's Scripture. And no, it isn't philosophy, that is what you said.
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No sir it is not scripture. this is why you can't show anything that says so:) It's just your philosophy
MB
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

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MB said:
Gentiles are never called elect in the Bible.
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11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? Ro 9
 
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MB

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? Ro 9
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Find it easy to put a view verses together to make it say what you think is right the last two verses have nothing to do with election but instead being called.
MB
 
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