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The Elect, The Sheep, and the Like

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kyredneck

kyredneck

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MB said:
Find it easy to put a view verses together to make it say what you think is right the last two verses have nothing to do with election but instead being called.
MB
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Election is defined in v 11, 'not of works good or bad but of God who calls'.

V 11:
for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

V 24:
even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles
 
Y

Yeshua1

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davidtaylorjr said:
I disagree. You were elect before the foundation of the world. You are elect even before you are saved you are just under wrath until you are saved.
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I agree with you, but my point was that salvation confirms and proves that our election was sure! So both Jews and Gentiles had to be elect in order to be saved!
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

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Revmitchell said:
We are chosen "in Him" meaning we must be in Him to be elect. Before the foundation of the world as in we were chose to be what before the foundation of the world? That is the important question.

Eph_1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

That those who are "in Him" would be holy and without blame. Both elect and holy and without blame come after in Him. Cant be in Him until one believes.
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No, it means that in Him, in what He would do on the cross, we were chosen. He died for the sheep. We were bought. But our salvation still must be activated by faith.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

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MB said:
No sir it is not scripture. this is why you can't show anything that says so:) It's just your philosophy
MB
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Sure I can. The book of John is rife with proof of this talking about those who belong to him hear him. The elect know his voice and they come to him.
 
S

SGO

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Wow! What a beehive of activity. In an election year yet.
I guess you did not want to even touch 1 Corinthians 10:4 where they drank of the Rock and the Rock was Christ yet most of them died in the desert. (That is not dessert, fellows.)
All written to teach us something, I guess than in an election year not everyone wins the prize.

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:4

For many years I thought I would die in the desert, as a Christian, but now I have hope, only through Him, and certainly not by me.
 
I

Iconoclast

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kyredneck said:
Election is defined in v 11, 'not of works good or bad but of God who calls'.

V 11:
for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

V 24:
even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles
Click to expand...
Game ,set ,and match. Well played Kyred
 
Y

Yeshua1

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davidtaylorjr said:
No, it means that in Him, in what He would do on the cross, we were chosen. He died for the sheep. We were bought. But our salvation still must be activated by faith.
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That is what Peter meant by making sure that our election was true and sure...
 
B

Barry Johnson

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Yeshua1 said:
One can only be part of the Elect by being saved!
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Scott Downey said:
Yes, we are this here, elect means chosen for salvation
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love

If he chose us in Him we are elect, and since this happened before time began, we were elect before our existence.
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Its not chosen to be saved . How silly is it to believe that people were chosen to be saved before Adam and Eve existed , then sinned..Before the fall , before Moses , before the law , before Jesus was born , before the apostles, before Jesus is crucified, before the giving of the Holy Spirit, before Paul before the completion of the bible, before your parents gave birth to you , before you sinned , before you believed the Gospel. And you think you were chosen in Christ to be converted ? No where in the bible says this . You imagine Eph 1 .4 says this . Not because of any context, but because of the doctrines of men. We become In Him Chosen to be holy and blameless. THIS is the spiritual blessings that we get once we are in Him . This was what was chosen before . Eph 2.11-12 completely refutes the western ' me ' centred doctrines of Augustine..
 
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Barry Johnson

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davidtaylorjr said:
Sure I can. The book of John is rife with proof of this talking about those who belong to him hear him. The elect know his voice and they come to him.
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To both Calvinists and Arminians, the identity of “the elect” is widely accepted as “the saved ones”. Even if the sides disagree how one becomes saved the usual consensus is that new covenant believers are “the elect”. To see if that definition fits, let’s take a look at one passage in the New Testament where the term “the elect” is used as well as the term’s Old Testament roots .

2 Timothy 2:10 (NKJV), “Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.”

Who were/are “the elect” for whom Paul was willing to suffer with much hardship?

The two most widely accepted interpretations are the unconditional elect and/or the conditional elect. According to Calvinism, the former, the elect are those predestined and predetermined by God for salvation from eternity past. This group is certain and locked in. The elect will be saved and the non-elect will be lost. Period. According to Arminianism the elect are those foreseen by God who will accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior by their own free will; ie. conditional elect. Those who are “in Christ” are the elect of God. In short, one becomes elect when he or she elects to believe. However, neither of these widely accepted interpretations fit the content and grammar of the text.

WHO ARE THE “THEY ALSO”?
Look, again, at the text….

“Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.”
 
M

MB

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kyredneck said:
I hope so.
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Rev_2:9 I have known thy works, and tribulation, and poverty—yet thou art rich—and the evil-speaking of those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but are a synagogue of the Adversary.
Still hoping?
MB
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

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MB said:
Hoping will never make you a Jew.
MB
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Don't you hope that you belong to the Israel of God?

MB said:
Rev_2:9 I have known thy works, and tribulation, and poverty—yet thou art rich—and the evil-speaking of those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but are a synagogue of the Adversary.
Still hoping?
MB
Click to expand...

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:
29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2
6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed. Ro 9

3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3

15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6
 
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