The Elect, The Sheep, and the Like

[Scott Downey]

And scoffers HAVE come in the form of calvinists, besides many others, including cultists. Calvinists say God created people automatically predestinated for hell, no matter what, while still saying He's perfectly just. Yes, calvinists sell God short !

If everyone is predestinated, no matter what, why bother to worship or spread the Gospel ? Jesus didn't give the "Great Commission" for just a hobby!

Nope that is a lie including Calvinists as the scoffers mentioned. The scoffing is denying the promised coming destruction of the wicked who are saying God will not destroy the evil people of this world or make a new earth. Those people claim this earth is eternal and wicked forever.

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

 

[AustinC]

Again, who does ALL leave out ?

God does not create anyone predestinated for hell, with no chance for salvation. If He did, would He then not be perfectly-just?

Remember, Jesus even gave JUDAS the chance to repent! He made it plain to Judas that He knew of his plan to betray Him by pointing Him out with a kiss to the temple cops who didn't know Him by sight. He even told Judas to go & do what he must do quickly. But Judas had allowed Satan to enter into him.

Can you name anyone now living that has no chance at all for salvation ?

Again...read the passage and see that Peter is addressing all the elect. Please stop abusing 2 Peter 3:9 to fit your agenda.

 

[AustinC]

And scoffers HAVE come in the form of calvinists, besides many others, including cultists. Calvinists say God created people automatically predestinated for hell, no matter what, while still saying He's perfectly just. Yes, calvinists sell God short !

If everyone is predestinated, no matter what, why bother to worship or spread the Gospel ? Jesus didn't give the "Great Commission" for just a hobby!

Sigh, you come in with a bias, a prejudice and agenda and then you utterly butcher what God says to fit your agenda. Please stop being so dishonest.

 

[robycop3]

Predestination refers only to salvation, other predestined to Hell part sounds like Allah!

Yes, everyone is predestined to go either to heaven or hell, but we can determine which one by coming to Jesus or not coming to Him.

 

[robycop3]

Sigh, you come in with a bias, a prejudice and agenda and then you utterly butcher what God says to fit your agenda. Please stop being so dishonest.

I came in with the TRUTH, as God presents in His word.

 

[robycop3]

Again...read the passage and see that Peter is addressing all the elect. Please stop abusing 2 Peter 3:9 to fit your agenda.

He is addressing those who professed to be Christians at that time. And, on authority of Jesus, he wrote "all", not "all of you".

 

[AustinC]

I came in with the TRUTH, as God presents in His word.

No, you didn't. You used the Bible as a prooftext to your bias and prejudice.

 

[AustinC]

He is addressing those who professed to be Christians at that time. And, on authority of Jesus, he wrote "all", not "all of you".

I have bolded exactly what Peter wrote. Peter does not proclaim what you proclaim and 2 Peter 3:9 does not support your prejudice.

 

[Scott Downey]

He is addressing those who professed to be Christians at that time. And, on authority of Jesus, he wrote "all", not "all of you".

Peter was writing to the beloved, so this has nothing to do with the world, the unbelieving world won't be reading what Peter wrote, that was not his audience. God is not willing any of the sheep be lost, this theme is played throughout the NT scriptures, salvation for the sheep alone, damnation for the goats. Scripture explains why people believe in Christ and why they dont believe. Peter was writing to the church, of 'believers'. Same as Paul wrote his letters to the churches, so when you see 'you', 'us', or 'we' it is talking about the church, not the unbelieving world. As in all of the church, not all of the world.

Honestly the objections are not even logical.

 

[Scott Downey]

Peter is writing to who exactly? it can only be for the church, not the unbelieving world. To say otherwise is illogically dumb, maybe just an emotional response coming from a carnal thought, the influence of years of false thinking, and not being spiritually minded.

2 Peter 3:1
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder),

"9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise,"

What exactly is His promise? It is eternal life for the sheep.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us (beloved), not willing that any (of us) should perish but that all (of us) should come to repentance.

That is who Peter is talking about, 'US'

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, everyone is predestined to go either to heaven or hell, but we can determine which one by coming to Jesus or not coming to Him.

Lost sinners unaided will always choose the darkness though

 

[robycop3]

Peter is writing to who exactly? it can only be for the church, not the unbelieving world. To say otherwise is illogically dumb, maybe just an emotional response coming from a carnal thought, the influence of years of false thinking, and not being spiritually minded.

2 Peter 3:1
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder),

"9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise,"

What exactly is His promise? It is eternal life for the sheep.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us (beloved), not willing that any (of us) should perish but that all (of us) should come to repentance.

That is who Peter is talking about, 'US'

"Of us" is not in the verse.
Besides, God preserved it & made it available to all.

 

[robycop3]

No, you didn't. You used the Bible as a prooftext to your bias and prejudice.

No, YOU have the prejudice, as you're supporting a false doctrine.

 

[robycop3]

Peter was writing to the beloved, so this has nothing to do with the world, the unbelieving world won't be reading what Peter wrote, that was not his audience. God is not willing any of the sheep be lost, this theme is played throughout the NT scriptures, salvation for the sheep alone, damnation for the goats. Scripture explains why people believe in Christ and why they dont believe. Peter was writing to the church, of 'believers'. Same as Paul wrote his letters to the churches, so when you see 'you', 'us', or 'we' it is talking about the church, not the unbelieving world. As in all of the church, not all of the world.

Honestly the objections are not even logical.

Actually, they're quite logical. God did NOT create anyone to have no chance for salvation. He even provides for people who've never heard of Him.

I'd hearda Him & believed in Him my whole life, but it took me til age 30 to choose to come to Jesus in repentance & submission & ask Him to accept me & forgive my sins, including my attitude.

Do I believe I was predestinated to come to Him? Of course not. I had to make the choice. Whether God caused me to make that choice, I dunno. I only know I was lost before I made it, & now I'm saved !

 

[AustinC]

No, YOU have the prejudice, as you're supporting a false doctrine.

Your prejudice shows in your statement.
2 Peter proves you to be wrong, yet you still make assertion despite knowing you are asserting falsely.
As for your claim that I support a false doctrine...you realize that election comes directly from the Bible, while you cannot find free will salvation found anywhere in the Bible.
Your prejudice is obvious.

 

[Scott Downey]

Actually, they're quite logical. God did NOT create anyone to have no chance for salvation. He even provides for people who've never heard of Him.

I'd hearda Him & believed in Him my whole life, but it took me til age 30 to choose to come to Jesus in repentance & submission & ask Him to accept me & forgive my sins, including my attitude.

Do I believe I was predestinated to come to Him? Of course not. I had to make the choice. Whether God caused me to make that choice, I dunno. I only know I was lost before I made it, & now I'm saved !

What does God provide for people who have never herd of Christ today?

 

[robycop3]

Your prejudice shows in your statement.
2 Peter proves you to be wrong, yet you still make assertion despite knowing you are asserting falsely.
As for your claim that I support a false doctrine...you realize that election comes directly from the Bible, while you cannot find free will salvation found anywhere in the Bible.
Your prejudice is obvious.

Where does Scripture say the thief on the cross was already elected ? How about Zacchaeus? How about the Roman with the ill servant? That's just a short list.

 

[robycop3]

What does God provide for people who have never herd of Christ today?

Same thing He provided for the ancient North Americans.
(Romans 1:19-20, Romans 2:14-15)

 

[Scott Downey]

Same thing He provided for the ancient North Americans.
(Romans 1:19-20, Romans 2:14-15)

There is no salvation concept mentioned there.

keep reading and you find this in v16
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

So clearly they are judged according to the gospel of Christ. Paul later says no flesh shall be justified in God's sight by observing the law. So what Romans 2 is saying, is they will be judged by the law, they can try to excuse themselves like Adam did, but God wont excuse them their sins, thinking God will is antichrist.

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[AustinC]

Where does Scripture say the thief on the cross was already elected ? How about Zacchaeus? How about the Roman with the ill servant? That's just a short list.

Scripture doesn't need to tell us each elected person's name. This is a criterion you are demanding. What scripture tells us is that God elects/chooses his children/sheep. This is a fact that you seem to want voided from the Bible.