The Eternal Son.

[37818]

Micah 5:2 tells us the Messiah originated from old, everlasting, from eternity itself....

That would mean not begotten to be the second distinct Person of the Trinity who became the Son of God as the Messiah.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are playing word games.

One Being, in 3 distinct persons!

 

[37818]

He was God the Son before He incarnated!

Now I believe that presonally based on Him being "the unique Son" according to that being the original reading of John 1:18 as the word of God.

 

[HankD]

I made no claim about which Creed is considered more or less Arian than the other. I was only pointing it appeared to me the guys here were following the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381. I said this because I saw the phrase "before all worlds" which is not in the Nicene Creed.

You would have to provide some primary historical source for that claim. As far as I know the answer is no.

Never happened

yes it did just not sure of the actors.

 

[37818]

He was God the Son before He incarnated!

Not if He was "unique God" according to John 1:18.

 

[HankD]

It is not hard to find.

You could simply check the Eyclopedia Britannica.

Koine | ancient Greek language

Or you could check out:

Hellenistic Koine

Or this site from Ohio State University department of linguistics:

GREEK, Ancient

Or you could read: Greek: A History of the Language and its Speakers by Geoffrey Horrocks

 

[HankD]

You are playing word games.

no it it is not a game it is true.

 

[Yeshua1]

Not if He was "unique God" according to John 1:18.

There is only One God,so all 3 are "unique God"

 

[HankD]

It is not hard to find.

You could simply check the Eyclopedia Britannica.

Koine | ancient Greek language

Or you could check out:

Hellenistic Koine

Or this site from Ohio State University department of linguistics:

GREEK, Ancient

Or you could read: Greek: A History of the Language and its Speakers by Geoffrey Horrocks

OK still the differences are there because they indeed misquoted scripture.

 

[Origen]

yes it did just not sure of the actors.

Then cite a primary source.

 

[HankD]

Exactly. This is an English translation of the Greek, which substitutes the word “begotten” instead of conveying your intended meaning “emanates from” thus introducing confusion, if the latter is truly meant.

on the contrary my translation clears the matter.

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

 

[Origen]

OK still the differences are there because they indeed misquoted scripture.

You have provided no analysis of the text.

 

[HankD]

You have provided no analysis of the text.

you can do that.

 

[Origen]

you can do that.

No reason since there is no evidence to believe it.

 

[HankD]

No reason since there is no evidence to believe it.

suit yourself.

 

[HankD]

Then cite a primary source.

"In the following years the political foes continue to struggle and finally the Arians misused their power and were overthrown. The religious/political controversy caused widespread bloodshed and killing. In 381 AD, Emperor Theodosius (a Trinitarian) convened a council in Constantinople. Only Trinitarian bishops were invited to attend. 150 bishops attended and voted to alter the Nicene creed to include the Holy Spirit as a part of the Godhead. The Trinity doctrine was now official for both the church and the state.

Dissident bishops were expelled from the church, and excommunicated.

THE ATHANASIUS CREED COMPLETES THE TRIUNE GODHEAD
The Athanasius (Trinitarian) Creed was finally established in (probably) the 5th century. It was not written by Athanasius but adopted his name. It stated in part:
"We worship one God in Trinity . . . The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; and yet they are not three gods, but one God."
By the 9th century the creed was established in Spain, France and Germany. It had taken centuries from the time of Christ for the trinity doctrine to catch on. Government and church politics were the reasons the trinity came into existence and became church orthodoxy.

As you have seen, the Trinitarian doctrine came from deceit, politics, a pagan emperor and warring factions who brought about death and bloodshed."


"The Trinity Doctrine/Dogma Exposed"

 

[Origen]

"In the following years the political foes continue to struggle and finally the Arians misused their power and were overthrown. The religious/political controversy caused widespread bloodshed and killing. In 381 AD, Emperor Theodosius (a Trinitarian) convened a council in Constantinople. Only Trinitarian bishops were invited to attend. 150 bishops attended and voted to alter the Nicene creed to include the Holy Spirit as a part of the Godhead. The Trinity doctrine was now official for both the church and the state.

Dissident bishops were expelled from the church, and excommunicated.

THE ATHANASIUS CREED COMPLETES THE TRIUNE GODHEAD
The Athanasius (Trinitarian) Creed was finally established in (probably) the 5th century. It was not written by Athanasius but adopted his name. It stated in part:
"We worship one God in Trinity . . . The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; and yet they are not three gods, but one God."
By the 9th century the creed was established in Spain, France and Germany. It had taken centuries from the time of Christ for the trinity doctrine to catch on. Government and church politics were the reasons the trinity came into existence and became church orthodoxy.

As you have seen, the Trinitarian doctrine came from deceit, politics, a pagan emperor and warring factions who brought about death and bloodshed."


"The Trinity Doctrine/Dogma Exposed"

First that is not a primary source. Primary sources "are immediate, first-hand accounts of a topic, from people who had a direct connection with it. Second, no qualified historians of any kind are cited. Third, in fact no sources are named in order to check the veracity of the claims.

Only Robert G. Ingersoll is quoted and his quote is irrelevant to your claim.

That sites offers nothing that can support your claim. I will see what I can find on the matter when I have time.

 

[Yeshua1]

"In the following years the political foes continue to struggle and finally the Arians misused their power and were overthrown. The religious/political controversy caused widespread bloodshed and killing. In 381 AD, Emperor Theodosius (a Trinitarian) convened a council in Constantinople. Only Trinitarian bishops were invited to attend. 150 bishops attended and voted to alter the Nicene creed to include the Holy Spirit as a part of the Godhead. The Trinity doctrine was now official for both the church and the state.

Dissident bishops were expelled from the church, and excommunicated.

THE ATHANASIUS CREED COMPLETES THE TRIUNE GODHEAD
The Athanasius (Trinitarian) Creed was finally established in (probably) the 5th century. It was not written by Athanasius but adopted his name. It stated in part:
"We worship one God in Trinity . . . The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; and yet they are not three gods, but one God."
By the 9th century the creed was established in Spain, France and Germany. It had taken centuries from the time of Christ for the trinity doctrine to catch on. Government and church politics were the reasons the trinity came into existence and became church orthodoxy.

As you have seen, the Trinitarian doctrine came from deceit, politics, a pagan emperor and warring factions who brought about death and bloodshed."


"The Trinity Doctrine/Dogma Exposed"

it might have taken 500 years to officially be codified, but the trinity was being spoken about in the Bible itself!

 

[37818]

He was God the Son before He incarnated!

Saying what I prefer to be true does not make it true. You have provided no real evidence of that popular belief being the truth.

 

[Yeshua1]

Saying what I prefer to be true does not make it true. You have provided no real evidence of that popular belief being the truth.

is it due mainly to the only begotten aspect?