The False Doctrine of Purgatory

[MarysSon]

The Holy Spirit immerses us when God makes us alive with Christ. From that moment we are held and sealed by God. He will not leave us nor forsake us.

oment we are held and sealed by God. He will not leave us nor forsake us.[/QUOTE]
Provided we remain faithful and in His kindness - otherwise, we will LOSE our security . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

 

[MarysSon]

In His sight fully accepted in the Beloved, are you?

Yup - unless I choose to walk away.
Same goes for YOU . . .

 

[Walter]

We at this BAPTIST BOARD should lump all of you together as being Biblical Cults!​

You know, it would make you feel so much better to go find a priest or nun and beat them to a bloody pulp. Then spit on them and tell them about your love for Jesus and your Pauline justification theory.

 

[Revmitchell]

I just wish that we woulkd treat RCC and Sda in same light as we do Mormons and Jw, and

Not sure what you mean by that.

 

[Yeshua1]

You know, it would make you feel so much better to go find a priest or nun and beat them to a bloody pulp. Then spit on them and tell them about your love for Jesus and your Pauline justification theory.

I would much more prefer that the Lord would wake all of you up to what the real Gospel is!

 

[Yeshua1]

Not sure what you mean by that.

I meant that I wish we would see Sda and RCC as we do Mormons and Jw, as all Biblical Cults!

 

[Adonia]

I meant that I wish we would see Sda and RCC as we do Mormons and Jw, as all Biblical Cults!

Anyone who is not a Baptist is in a cult to you. The constant spewage of your garbage is getting old and like a worn out record it is all played out! You add nothing to the conversation with such drivel and it shows you to be a person of limited intelligence who likes to keep things on the lowest level possible. Have a nice day!

 

[Yeshua1]

Anyone who is not a Baptist is in a cult to you. The constant spewage of your garbage is getting old and like a worn out record it is all played out! You add nothing to the conversation with such drivel and it shows you to be a person of limited intelligence who likes to keep things on the lowest level possible. Have a nice day!

No, rather its any group or church whose doctrines deny those of Bible, and also add extra authority and revelation to that of scripture that is a Cult to me!

 

[MarysSon]

No, rather its any group or church whose doctrines deny those of Bible, and also add extra authority and revelation to that of scripture that is a Cult to me!

Such as??

 

[Yeshua1]

Such as??

Wored of Faith, Jesus only, Sda, RCC, Mormons, Jw to name just a few!

 

[MarysSon]

Wored of Faith, Jesus only, Sda, RCC, Mormons, Jw to name just a few!

No - I meant which doctrines that "deny those of Bible" is the Catholic Church guilty of??

 

[Yeshua1]

No - I meant which doctrines that "deny those of Bible" is the Catholic Church guilty of??

Mass, water baptismal regeneration, papacy, Mother Church, Mariology, PurgeotoryITS RATHER ENDLESS!

 

[AustinC]

oment we are held and sealed by God. He will not leave us nor forsake us.

Provided we remain faithful and in His kindness - otherwise, we will LOSE our security . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)[/QUOTE]No. Your provision makes salvation and maintaining salvation a work of men. You strip God of his rightful place as Savior. You deny him his promises and call him a liar. You make the blood of Jesus ineffective. How horrifyingly wrong you are.

 

[Walpole]

No. Your provision makes salvation and maintaining salvation a work of men. You strip God of his rightful place as Savior. You deny him his promises and call him a liar. You make the blood of Jesus ineffective. How horrifyingly wrong you are.

Your provision renders salvation to be nothing more than a license.

The Protestant who believes in justification by faith alone is operating under forensic justification and the alien righteousness of Christ, even if he doesn't know it. Justifying righteousness, according to Protestantism, is alien to man; outside of him, not belonging to him nor residing with him. Hence according to this belief, if justifying righteousness is outside of you and belongs to someone else, then logically it's not your responsibility to maintain it. Since it's foreign, it can't be impacted by your choices, actions or sins. Therein is the lie of Protestantism.

The Jewish understanding of justification, like the Christian one, is about relationship with God. The concept of forensic justification (faith alone) is foreign to both Judaism and Christianity. It was an invention of Protestantism, a "theological ovum" as one Protestant theologian admitted.

That there exists both an old law and a new one of Christ's (grace / love) demonstrates that God has always required something of man. To believe otherwise, one would have to truncate / ignore enormously large portions of the Gospels, Pauline epistles and catholic epistles (e.g. the epistle of James).

 

[MarysSon]

No. Your provision makes salvation and maintaining salvation a work of men. You strip God of his rightful place as Savior. You deny him his promises and call him a liar. You make the blood of Jesus ineffective. How horrifyingly wrong you are.

WRONG.

I'll use the "boat" analogy again to prove my point . . .

You are adrift at sea and a man in a boat comes along and saves you.
YOU climbed into the boat - but HE still saved you.

The man has given you the means to stay safe and dry until you reach land.
However, YOU choose whether or not to jump overboard or stay on the boat in safety.

It's the SAME with salvation and God's grace. We must cooperate with His grace.
He doesn't drag us kicking and screaming onto the boat against our will.

 

[MarysSon]

Mass, water baptismal regeneration, papacy, Mother Church, Mariology, PurgeotoryITS RATHER ENDLESS!

The Mass is taken right out of Scripture:
Rev. 1:10 speaks of the heavenly liturgy being celebrated on the Lord's day. Catholics are obliged to attend mass on Sunday (the Lord’s Day).
Rev. 1:12, 2:5 speaks of lampstands or “Menorahs” in heaven. They are also used in the mass here on earth.
Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 tells us about priests wearing special vestments in the heavenly liturgy. Here on earth, Catholic priests also wear liturgical vestments when celebrating Mass.
Rev. 2:5, 16, 21; 3:3; 16:11 speaks of a penitential rite going on in heaven – just like the in the Mass on earth.
Rev. 15:3-4 speaks of the “Gloria” being recited in heaven. You will hear this recited during the Mass on earth.
Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 mentions the presbuteros(oi) (priests) in heaven. On earth, the priest offers Jesus’ eternal and ongoing sacrifice during the Mass.
Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4 speaks of the saints in heaven interceding on our behalf – just as they are petitioned in the Mass.
Rev. 4:8 speaks of heaven's un-ending hymn of praise to God, “Holy, Holy, Holy”. This very same prayer is recited in the Mass.
Rev. 2:17 speaks of manna in heaven that is given to the faithful. Likewise, during the Mass, we receive the true manna - the Eucharist.
Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 speaks of incense being used in heaven which has been part of the celebration of the Mass from the beginning.
Rev. 6:9 tells us about the martyrs under the heavenly altar which is mirrored by the Church's tradition of having relics of saints under the altars of our churches on earth.
Rev. 5 speaks of the Lamb (describing Jesus). During the Mass, Jesus is described as the Lamb of God during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 speaks of an altar being present in heaven – which illustrates that an eternal sacrifice is being offered. That sacrifice is the very same one being offered on the altar during the Mass.
Rev. 14:4 speaks of those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They are celibate. In the same way, our celibate priests and religious here on earth follow the Lord.
Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4, 8, 10, 12, 17; 21:9 speaks of chalices (bowls) being used in the heavenly liturgy. Likewise, chalices are used to offer our Lord’s eternal sacrifice on earth during the Mass.
Rev. 17, 19:9 speaks of consuming the Lamb at the marriage celebration in Heaven. This is done at every single Mass on earth during Communion.
Rev. 19:1, 3, 4, 6 speaks of the “Alleluia” being recited in heaven. You will find this recited at every Mass here on earth.

Baptismal Regeneration:
(Ezek. 36:25-28, Matt. 28:19, John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:37-38, Acts 10:48, Acts 19:1-7, Acts 22:16, Rom. 6: 3-4, Gal. 3:27, Col. 2:11-12, Eph. 4:5, Tit. 3:4-8, 1 Pet. 3:21)

The Papacy:
(Matt. 16:18-19, Luke 22:31, John 21:15:19)

Purgatory:
(2 Macc. 12:42-46, 1 Cor. 3:10-15, Mal. 3:3, Jer. 6:27-30, Ezek. 22:18, Psalm 119:119, Psalm 37:20, Zech. 13:9, Isa 48:10, Matt. 5:25-26, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35, Luke 12:58-59)

Mariology
Immaculate Conception:
Luke 1:28

Perpetual Virginity:
Luke 1:34

Queenship:
Rev. 11:19 - 12:1-5

Can I help you with anything else??

 

[Yeshua1]

The Mass is taken right out of Scripture:
Rev. 1:10 speaks of the heavenly liturgy being celebrated on the Lord's day. Catholics are obliged to attend mass on Sunday (the Lord’s Day).
Rev. 1:12, 2:5 speaks of lampstands or “Menorahs” in heaven. They are also used in the mass here on earth.
Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 tells us about priests wearing special vestments in the heavenly liturgy. Here on earth, Catholic priests also wear liturgical vestments when celebrating Mass.
Rev. 2:5, 16, 21; 3:3; 16:11 speaks of a penitential rite going on in heaven – just like the in the Mass on earth.
Rev. 15:3-4 speaks of the “Gloria” being recited in heaven. You will hear this recited during the Mass on earth.
Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 mentions the presbuteros(oi) (priests) in heaven. On earth, the priest offers Jesus’ eternal and ongoing sacrifice during the Mass.
Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4 speaks of the saints in heaven interceding on our behalf – just as they are petitioned in the Mass.
Rev. 4:8 speaks of heaven's un-ending hymn of praise to God, “Holy, Holy, Holy”. This very same prayer is recited in the Mass.
Rev. 2:17 speaks of manna in heaven that is given to the faithful. Likewise, during the Mass, we receive the true manna - the Eucharist.
Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 speaks of incense being used in heaven which has been part of the celebration of the Mass from the beginning.
Rev. 6:9 tells us about the martyrs under the heavenly altar which is mirrored by the Church's tradition of having relics of saints under the altars of our churches on earth.
Rev. 5 speaks of the Lamb (describing Jesus). During the Mass, Jesus is described as the Lamb of God during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 speaks of an altar being present in heaven – which illustrates that an eternal sacrifice is being offered. That sacrifice is the very same one being offered on the altar during the Mass.
Rev. 14:4 speaks of those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They are celibate. In the same way, our celibate priests and religious here on earth follow the Lord.
Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4, 8, 10, 12, 17; 21:9 speaks of chalices (bowls) being used in the heavenly liturgy. Likewise, chalices are used to offer our Lord’s eternal sacrifice on earth during the Mass.
Rev. 17, 19:9 speaks of consuming the Lamb at the marriage celebration in Heaven. This is done at every single Mass on earth during Communion.
Rev. 19:1, 3, 4, 6 speaks of the “Alleluia” being recited in heaven. You will find this recited at every Mass here on earth.

Baptismal Regeneration:
(Ezek. 36:25-28, Matt. 28:19, John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:37-38, Acts 10:48, Acts 19:1-7, Acts 22:16, Rom. 6: 3-4, Gal. 3:27, Col. 2:11-12, Eph. 4:5, Tit. 3:4-8, 1 Pet. 3:21)

The Papacy:
(Matt. 16:18-19, Luke 22:31, John 21:15:19)

Purgatory:
(2 Macc. 12:42-46, 1 Cor. 3:10-15, Mal. 3:3, Jer. 6:27-30, Ezek. 22:18, Psalm 119:119, Psalm 37:20, Zech. 13:9, Isa 48:10, Matt. 5:25-26, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35, Luke 12:58-59)

Mariology
Immaculate Conception:
Luke 1:28

Perpetual Virginity:
Luke 1:34

Queenship:
Rev. 11:19 - 12:1-5

Can I help you with anything else??

Mass is Blasphemy to God!

 

[MarysSon]

Mass is Blasphemy to God!

HOW so?
I just showed you that it is completely Scriptural.

 

[AustinC]

Your provision renders salvation to be nothing more than a license.

The Protestant who believes in justification by faith alone is operating under forensic justification and the alien righteousness of Christ, even if he doesn't know it. Justifying righteousness, according to Protestantism, is alien to man; outside of him, not belonging to him nor residing with him. Hence according to this belief, if justifying righteousness is outside of you and belongs to someone else, then logically it's not your responsibility to maintain it. Since it's foreign, it can't be impacted by your choices, actions or sins. Therein is the lie of Protestantism.

The Jewish understanding of justification, like the Christian one, is about relationship with God. The concept of forensic justification (faith alone) is foreign to both Judaism and Christianity. It was an invention of Protestantism, a "theological ovum" as one Protestant theologian admitted.

That there exists both an old law and a new one of Christ's (grace / love) demonstrates that God has always required something of man. To believe otherwise, one would have to truncate / ignore enormously large portions of the Gospels, Pauline epistles and catholic epistles (e.g. the epistle of James).

Is Jesus sacrificial atonement a license? Hardly. It is an act of love that is greater than anything ever done by man.
Question: Is Jesus the Sovereign Ruler of All Creation?
My answer is...Yes. I hope you answer the same.
Question: Does the Supreme Ruler have the right to choose whatever he wills?
My answer is...Yes. I hope you answer the same.
Question: Is there anything in humanity that makes humans deserving of being Redeemed of their sin and rebellion?
My answer is No. I hope you answer the same.
Question: If God chose to Redeem one human and no other, would God be a God of love, even though God justly condemned all others because of their rebellious sin?
My answer is...Yes. I hope you answer the same.
Question: Would you go to that one person and tell them the Supreme King gave you a license and we all hate that God did such a thing?
My answer is...No. I would not. I hope you answer the same.

God, from the very moment of Adam's fall revealed his Supreme Right to choose to either Redeem or to justly condemn. When God chose to Redeem Adam and Eve by the blood of a sacrifice, he established covenantal relationship with men. He chose with whom He would be in covenant and with whom he would not have covenant. He elected to have mercy upon whom he wills and not to grant mercy to whom He wills. He elected to extend grace to whom He wills and to not extend grace to whom He wills. Such is the authority He has as the Supreme Ruler.
Will you or I blame God and cry that He did not give us a choice? Do we, who are stained by our rebellious sins even dare to accuse God when He acts according to His Supreme Right to choose?

Romans 9:14-24 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

 

[AustinC]

WRONG.

I'll use the "boat" analogy again to prove my point . . .

You are adrift at sea and a man in a boat comes along and saves you.
YOU climbed into the boat - but HE still saved you.

The man has given you the means to stay safe and dry until you reach land.
However, YOU choose whether or not to jump overboard or stay on the boat in safety.

It's the SAME with salvation and God's grace. We must cooperate with His grace.
He doesn't drag us kicking and screaming onto the boat against our will.

You and I are so wretchedly incapable that neither you nor I have the capacity to climb in the boat. You and I are like a total paraplegic who cannot do anything to save himself. That person who comes along must do ALL the work to save you.

STOP glorifying your SELF. You and I are complete utter wretches. We are incapable of saving our selves. As long as we hold a glimmer of prideful idea that we could climb in the boat, we utterly deny the glorious work of God in saving us.
I admit my utter wretchedness and incapacity. Do you?