The Final Authority of Scripture

[DHK]

DHK, to me you more than ever look like the RC you used to be before you joined "The First Baptist Church of Jerusalem".
Intimidating stuff this ...

And what would you call it? The Gerhard Reformed Church?
The RCC constantly refers to this as a Catholic church, and implies that it was and is part of the RCC.
I believe that it is much closer to the Baptists than any other position. Therefore I label it as such.
Why should you object?

 

[The American Dream]

We are completely familiar with the Scriptures and we also have the correct interpretation of them. Plus, we live them out in the way we worship - the Mass is the Scriptures in action.

Now let's be clear though, the Scriptures are not the final authority - they go hand in hand with the Magisterium of the Church. Not just one man deciding things, but with the authority God gave His Holy Church.

Baloney, Hebrews says the Bible is the final authority. It is quite clear. That makes whatever group you are trying to sell a cult. End of story.

 

[utilyan]

You do surprize me, Utilyan! I say it again, I cannot believe you are Roman Catholic. I can only understand it to some extent in view of your animosity towards the Scriptures.

You are one case that puzzles me. WHY DO YOU FIGHT THE SCRIPTURES? TO BE A ROMAN CATHOLIC?! MUST BE... You're caught brother; may God have mercy on your soul.

...RC devils, God will get you!

I love scriptures. My favorite chapters is 1 Corinthians 13 and 1 john 4. Love, Kindness and Compassion are the paramount highest priority of mine.

If your looking for my flaw I think it lies in the battle between my sense of trust in God vs. my trust in God.

Any prayers you have for me is certainly welcomed from anyone. I feel though I don't trust God as I ought to and through this God has taught me plenty about mercy for others.

God understand I don't want to rely on a sense, sensation, proof, acknowledgement or validation for me to trust God. I want it from a pure place and sometimes that means against frightening odds where the whole world even your own life curses God, abhors love, spits on kindness, throws away compassion........but I still believe.

 

[The Biblicist]

Because you and what you vend offend me; especially the haughty way in which you peddle your cart.

If your stuff isn't meant for me, or for everyone else, then what do you bring it here to a public forum for? Why don't you leave it in your books at home on the shelves?

Did you read what I was replying to? You shouldn't respond if you don't know what brought on that response. That is not my normal response but in this case it was called for. But you know Gerhard, I have known you via this forum for some time and you are really not the one to rebuke others for educational ego. I think when you look at the context of my statement you will understand why I responded that way. However, whether you agree or not makes little difference to me.

 

[utilyan]

Did you read what I was replying to? You shouldn't respond if you don't know what brought on that response. That is not my normal response but in this case it was called for. But you know Gerhard, I have known you via this forum for some time and you are really not the one to rebuke others for educational ego. I think when you look at the context of my statement you will understand why I responded that way. However, whether you agree or not makes little difference to me.

Bib, Gerhard can teach you a lot about mercy. Sometimes it helps to take a step back, maybe even laugh. =)

If I had my guess who's under God's care.........I think God likes the underdogs.

 

[The Biblicist]

Bib, Gerhard can teach you a lot about mercy. Sometimes it helps to take a step back, maybe even laugh. =)

If I had my guess who's under God's care.........I think God likes the underdogs.

We are all underdogs, there is none righteous no not one. If everyone would show equal respect we would not be even talking about this. BTW neither you or Gerhard know a thing about me or my history and therefore, need to be concerned more about yourself than talking down to others. That is what started this diversion.

 

[Adonia]

You do surprize me, Utilyan! I say it again, I cannot believe you are Roman Catholic. I can only understand it to some extent in view of your animosity towards the Scriptures.

You are one case that puzzles me. WHY DO YOU FIGHT THE SCRIPTURES? TO BE A ROMAN CATHOLIC?! MUST BE... You're caught brother; may God have mercy on your soul.

...RC devils, God will get you!

I say YOU are in league with the devil. He has total control of you and is leading you to spiritual destruction. God will deal with you for rejecting His Holy Church.

 

[The Biblicist]

I say YOU are in league with the devil. He has total control of you and is leading you to spiritual destruction. God will deal with you for rejecting His Holy Church.

I am not a great fan of Gerhard or his doctrinal views but if there is one institution on earth that is in league with the Devil it is the Roman Catholic Church. All one has to do is check the newspaper for the last ten years and see that sodomy is characteristic of its priesthood as its ministry preys on innocent children. Gerhard may have is faults, like all of us, but at least his ministry is not characterize by sodomy and drunkeness. Have you looked at the latest statistics of the percentage of these problems among within the "Holy" Catholic church's ministry? No denomination on earth has such a high rate of moral problems as yours.

 

[Adonia]

I am not a great fan of Gerhard or his doctrinal views but if there is one institution on earth that is in league with the Devil it is the Roman Catholic Church. All one has to do is check the newspaper for the last ten years and see that sodomy is characteristic of its priesthood as its ministry preys on innocent children. Gerhard may have is faults, like all of us, but at least his ministry is not characterize by sodomy and drunkeness. Have you looked at the latest statistics of the percentage of these problems among within the "Holy" Catholic church's ministry? No denomination on earth has such a high rate of moral problems as yours.

Oh please. Not too long ago in Florida a Baptist preacher was arrested in a sting when he went to meet a young boy he met on the internet, but instead the cops were waiting. And somewhere else in the south another couple of Baptist "holy men" were convicted of abusing young girls and are now in jail for a long, long time. And in another incident a Baptist minister was arrested when his wife found thousands of the most vile child porn images on his computer. So that's three incidents I took off the top of my head and I bet if I did an internet search I would be here for an hour typing about them. Face it, while you would like to think so, you people are no better than us - the Catholic Church is just the whipping boy of Christianity.

As for Mr. Gerhards ministry not being soiled, how do you know? Most likely such evil things are going on and the fact that his adherants are so small in number, no one has heard about the serious problems that exist. Don't worry, if he and his fellow adherants are humans you can take my word for it, they have the same serious problems any other group of people have in the realm of moral living.

 

[The Biblicist]

Oh please. Not too long ago in Florida a Baptist preacher was arrested in a sting when he went to meet a young boy he met on the internet, but instead the cops were waiting. And somewhere else in the south another couple of Baptist "holy men" were convicted of abusing young girls and are now in jail for a long, long time. And in another incident a Baptist minister was arrested when his wife found thousands of the most vile child porn images on his computer. So that's three incidents I took off the top of my head and I bet if I did an internet search I would be here for an hour typing about them. Face it, while you would like to think so, you people are no better than us - the Catholic Church is just the whipping boy of Christianity.

As for Mr. Gerhards ministry not being soiled, how do you know? Most likely such evil things are going on and the fact that his adherants are so small in number, no one has heard about the serious problems that exist. Don't worry, if he and his fellow adherants are humans you can take my word for it, they have the same serious problems any other group of people have in the realm of sex and morals.

You are not being real honest here. 3400 cases have been reported to the Vatican since 2004. The percentage that go unreported is thought to many more times the number reported. No denomination on earth is more characterized by this than Rome's ministry - none. Sure you can find a few here and there within Baptists but it is not a characteristic of our ministry but it is lingering characteristic within the Roman Priesthood and continues to be. The Roman heirarchy has sheilded and hidden sodomy within its priesthood for years until within this past decade when they were forced to stop hiding their "holiness" behind walls. The precentage that is estimated to be sodomites among your ministry is staggering. In Rome alone there is a staggering number of open gay priests. Just in the past few years a complete documentary has been released on this very problem in the Vatican itself.

See - http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vatican-reveals-how-many-priests-defrocked-for-sex-abuse-since-2004/

 

[Smyth]

You are not being real honest here. 3400 cases have been reported to the Vatican since 2004. The percentage that go unreported is thought to many more times the number reported. No denomination on earth is more characterized by this than Rome's ministry - none.

The Roman Catholic Church has been ground zero for homosexual church leaders molesting teenage boys. But, any church guilty of the same would be rightly condemned the same. The Catholic Church has had a homosexual subculture for many decades, and Pope Frances seems to be winking at it.

 

[The Biblicist]

A recent video documentary reveals it is rampant in Vatican Rome and a major force within the vatican. This documentary is open to the public and can be found on Netflick now.

The Roman Catholic Church has been ground zero for homosexual church leaders molesting teenage boys. But, any church guilty of the same would be rightly condemned the same. The Catholic Church has had a homosexual subculture for many decades, and Pope Frances seems to be winking at it.

 

[Adonia]

You are not being real honest here. 3400 cases have been reported to the Vatican since 2004. The percentage that go unreported is thought to many more times the number reported. No denomination on earth is more characterized by this than Rome's ministry - none. Sure you can find a few here and there within Baptists but it is not a characteristic of our ministry but it is lingering characteristic within the Roman Priesthood and continues to be. The Roman heirarchy has sheilded and hidden sodomy within its priesthood for years until within this past decade when they were forced to stop hiding their "holiness" behind walls. The precentage that is estimated to be sodomites among your ministry is staggering. In Rome alone there is a staggering number of open gay priests. Just in the past few years a complete documentary has been released on this very problem in the Vatican itself.

See - http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vatican-reveals-how-many-priests-defrocked-for-sex-abuse-since-2004/

Yes, I am being completely honest here. The Catholic Church has admitted it sins, asked forgiveness of those who were abused, and paid compensation.

Now you are the one who does not want to face the facts regarding all kinds of evil sexual immorality in your ranks. So please on tell me which is worse, a pedophile Catholic priest or a pedophile Baptist minister? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, right my friend?

 

[Adonia]

A recent video documentary reveals it is rampant in Vatican Rome and a major force within the vatican. This documentary is open to the public and can be found on Netflick now.

Oh wow, a documentary, really? Gee, I wonder when someone will do a video documentary of all that occurs in your Christian community regarding sexual abuse, as it would be an interesting thing to see for sure and quite possibly eye opening. Like I said, the Catholic Church is the Christian whipping boy.

 

[Adonia]

The Roman Catholic Church has been ground zero for homosexual church leaders molesting teenage boys. But, any church guilty of the same would be rightly condemned the same. The Catholic Church has had a homosexual subculture for many decades, and Pope Frances seems to be winking at it.

So tell me, which sexual sins are worse? Homosexuality, fornication, adultery? Come on, surely you realize that members of your Christian sects routinely take part in all of the above.

No one is winking at anything, it all is out in the open and great strides have been made to lesson the problem.

 

[The Biblicist]

Oh wow, a documentary, really? Gee, I wonder when someone will do a video documentary of all that occurs in your Christian community regarding sexual abuse, as it would be an interesting thing to see for sure and quite possibly eye opening. Like I said, the Catholic Church is the Christian whipping boy.

What you really mean to say is that the Vatican was FORCED by public outcry to confess it. has been INTENTIONALLY covering it for years, denying it, until public outcry forced it to be honest. You are still not being honest. The numbers among the Roman Priesthood are staggering and there is NO COMPARISON between it and any other denomination. The Vatican itself is still plagued by it. There are open Gay Preist bars in Rome. There is no denomination you can point to that is so characterized as Rome by this issue. - NONE!

 

[The Biblicist]

I have presented my case on the final authority of Scripture according to the scripture itself. None have yet been able to overthrow the evidence and that evidence can be summarized by four points.

1. Isaiah 8:16-20 is clear Messianic prophecy that the Old Testament and New Testament or the testimony of Jesus would be bound up and sealed among the disciples of Christ in the first century and when bound and sealed "this word" is final authority over the oral testimony of anyone ("speak") - Isa. 8:20

2. Jesus subjected oral tradition to the scriptures as final authority and for correcting it but NEVER subjected scriptures to oral traditions for proper interpretation or correction, and Christ NEVER referred to oral tradition as authority for his own teaching but repeatedly and consistently appeal to Scripture "It is written" to validate his own teaching.

3. Paul praised the Bereans for submitting his own oral apostolic teaching to the scriptures as final authority to test his speech.

4. Paul clearly and explicitly states that "scripture" is all that the Christian ministry needs for doctrine, teaching, correction, reproof as it completely furnishes the man of God with everything needed for faith and practice.

 

[The Biblicist]

So tell me, which sexual sins are worse? Homosexuality, fornication, adultery? Come on, surely you realize that members of your Christian sects routinely take part in all of the above.

No one is winking at anything, it all is out in the open and great strides have been made to lesson the problem.

Not being honest again. It is not which sin is worse, and it is not about "members" in denominations including the Catholic Denomination that we are speaking about. It is the ORDAINED LEADERSHIP of Rome that is completely characterized by such immorality far more so than almost all other denominations combined on earth.

3400 since 2004 is estimated to be just the tip of the iceberg for the real numbers which go unreported by contining cover ups. Rome was FORCED to admit it as it INTENTIONALLY hid the problem for years until it had no option to save face. Now the pretending apology, and it is pretended, as it had been HIDING the truth until being FORCED by public outcry. You are simply providing the Vatican talking points to literally cover their behinds.

 

[Adonia]

Not being honest again. It is not which sin is worse, and it is not about "members" in denominations including the Catholic Denomination that we are speaking about. It is the ORDAINED LEADERSHIP of Rome that is completely characterized by such immorality far more so than almost all other denominations combined on earth.

3400 since 2004 is estimated to be just the tip of the iceberg for the real numbers which go unreported by contining cover ups. Rome was FORCED to admit it as it INTENTIONALLY hid the problem for years until it had no option to save face. Now the pretending apology, and it is pretended, as it had been HIDING the truth until being FORCED by public outcry. You are simply providing the Vatican talking points to literally cover their behinds.

Your continuing desire to harp on the sins of the Catholic Church is nothing new. You are the folks who keep saying all sins are the same and there is nothing different in the Catholic Church regarding this against all other denominations or sects. Sin is sin - no matter where it originates.

God has forgiven us because we asked for forgiveness as a whole. If Jesus could forgive the unforgivable with Peter denying him not once, but three times, the offer of forgiveness and mercy still stands for the Catholic Church.

Now go find another dead horse to beat.

 

[Smyth]

So tell me, which sexual sins are worse? Homosexuality, fornication, adultery? Come on, surely you realize that members of your Christian sects routinely take part in all of the above.

I've yet to hear about an Adultery Pride Parade, how about you?