The first Pope was a married Priest

[Walpole]

I expect the Protestants to now start accusing the Catholic Church of forbidding adultery (divorce and remarriage)!

 

[church mouse guy]

Of course not. Here is why the Protestants who think they found a loophole allowing them to divorce and remarry and thereby justify their perpetual state of adultery is demonstrably fallacious.

There are two problems with the Protestant loophole. The first is that it make Jesus contradict Himself, as He is explicit that divorce and remarriage is adultery in all four Gospels. Secondly, there is a reason why only St. Matthew quotes Jesus using this so-called allowance. The reason being is that St. Matthew's Gospel was written to a Jewish audience. (This is the key to understanding and destroys the Protestant loophole belief.)

The word St. Matthew uses for "sexual immorality" is porneia (πορνεία). This word does NOT mean adultery. It is better translated as fornicate. The word for adultery is μοιχεύω and it is used explicitly and exclusively for adultery both in St. Matthew's Gospel and throughout the New Testament. For example...

---> "He saith unto him, 'Which?' Jesus said, 'Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery (μοιχεύω), Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness..." (Mt. 19:18)

St. Paul also distinguishes μοιχεύω from πορνεία in his epistles both to the faithful at Corinth and Galatia...

---> "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators (πόρνος), nor idolaters, nor adulterers (μοιχός), nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind..." (1 Cor 6:9)

---> "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery (μοιχεία), fornication (πορνεία), uncleanness, lasciviousness..." (Gal 5:19)



So what is Jesus saying as recording by St. Matthew? We know that spouses, by definition, cannot fornicate, unless we are speaking of "spouses" as used in Jewish antiquity. In Jewish antiquity, a betrothal was considered a marriage contract, even though the parties were not yet officially married. Thus St. Matthew's reference to the law of Moses and Deuteronomy (v. 31), and the use of fornication (porneia) by our Blessed Lord describe this Jewish betrothal period. A "spouse" can only commit fornication in a betrothal period, which again is how the Jews contracted marriage in antiquity. This is explicitly demonstrated by St. Matthew in the story of St. Joseph and the Virgin Mary, who while not yet married, were betrothed and thereby "spouses". Thus Joseph was going to "divorce" Mary quietly. (cf. Mt 1:19)


Sorry Protestants, but there is no justifying adultery (divorce and remarriage), no matter how hard you try.

Well, Moses did allow divorce according to Jesus and according to Deuteronomy so it seems that the RCC departed from that. As for your use of Greek, it was Greek to me and I don't see how that improves your case. I also disagree with your stuff about betrothal, which I consider beside the point since it clearly means that Joseph was going to break up the engagement and is not a divorce by any stretch of the law. Fornication is a form of adultery since it is sex outside of marriage, which is one man and one woman so all same-sex is adultery.

You do not have to stay married to a woman who commits adultery. With so many incurable STDs and AIDS, it is foolhardy to stay in a relationship that could mean your death or your permanent disease.

 

[church mouse guy]

I expect the Protestants to now start accusing the Catholic Church of forbidding adultery (divorce and remarriage)!

Most Protestants just indulge Catholics. The liberals have taken over that denomination as evidenced by the costume party called the Amazon Synod where paganism prevails and filth abounds. This does not include the child molesting scandals and openly-gay churches in NYC and elsewhere that threaten to drag the RCC down. The RCC blames Vatican II but I think that it is the incorporation of custom and tradition that has caused the problem. The majority of American RCC are liberals in all things; the traditionalists in the RCC are occasional political allies of conservatives but I don't count on them for much because they are by definition different in most subjects of discussion. I would like to see people like Fr. Jim Martin silenced but Pope Francis likes him and the next pope probably will be like Francis since cardinals over 80 have lost the right to vote and Francis has appointed a majority of cardinals now. The Germans are running things now, perhaps because of the wealth of Germany combined with their leftism. Protestants are not the particular enemies of the RCC as much as the leftists in the RCC are seeking to remake it in the image of Karl Marx. Vigano is in hiding because the Vatican could hunt him down and execute him.

 

[Walpole]

Well, Moses did allow divorce according to Jesus and according to Deuteronomy so it seems that the RCC departed from that. As for your use of Greek, it was Greek to me and I don't see how that improves your case. I also disagree with your stuff about betrothal, which I consider beside the point since it clearly means that Joseph was going to break up the engagement and is not a divorce by any stretch of the law. Fornication is a form of adultery since it is sex outside of marriage, which is one man and one woman so all same-sex is adultery.

You do not have to stay married to a woman who commits adultery. With so many incurable STDs and AIDS, it is foolhardy to stay in a relationship that could mean your death or your permanent disease.

It's amazing to see Protestants justify their adultery.

It is important to contrast that belief with the light of the truth of Catholic Church's teaching, which is that divorce and remarriage is adultery, as our Blessed Lord explicitly states.

 

[Walpole]

Most Protestants just indulge Catholics. The liberals have taken over that denomination as evidenced by the costume party called the Amazon Synod where paganism prevails and filth abounds. This does not include the child molesting scandals and openly-gay churches in NYC and elsewhere that threaten to drag the RCC down. The RCC blames Vatican II but I think that it is the incorporation of custom and tradition that has caused the problem. The majority of American RCC are liberals in all things; the traditionalists in the RCC are occasional political allies of conservatives but I don't count on them for much because they are by definition different in most subjects of discussion. I would like to see people like Fr. Jim Martin silenced but Pope Francis likes him and the next pope probably will be like Francis since cardinals over 80 have lost the right to vote and Francis has appointed a majority of cardinals now. The Germans are running things now, perhaps because of the wealth of Germany combined with their leftism. Protestants are not the particular enemies of the RCC as much as the leftists in the RCC are seeking to remake it in the image of Karl Marx. Vigano is in hiding because the Vatican could hunt him down and execute him.

Like your previous post advocating adultery, it is important that all this from the Amazon Synod comes to light. We need a clear idea and separation of truth and evil. For example, we know at least where you stand, advocating adultery in your previous post, whereas we know Christ condemns it. You have made your stance clear. With this Amazon Synod, the more they are exposed for what is really happening, the better in the long run. Their proposals, ceremonies and everything and important to see as it shows us where they stand and what we are fighting against.

Sometimes God works by way of contrasts. Now we are seeing what happens when the forces the Church previously fought gain traction and prevail temporarily. It’s no longer theoretical or a threat. It is a reality and the faithful must lead to suffer faithfully and to persevere.

Trent came after the Protestant Reformation...

 

[robycop3]

I'm throwing a no hitter here as you are STILL batting 0.000...

The gnostics forbade marriage. The Catholic Church does not forbid marriage. The Church teaches marriage is a sacrament! (Actually it's the only sacrament explicitly called a sacrament in Scripture.) It is promoted and the Catholic Church is the only institution anywhere on the planet protecting the sanctity of it.

As with the other poster, you are conflating forbidding with impediments. Using your argument and logic, you must also say your church forbids marriage because it refuses to marry you and your daughter.

Still throwing eephus balls!

Every time ya invent a new excuse for your false doctrine, I'll wave the flag of SCRIPTURE & blow it away.

You simply CANNOT show us a Scripture forbidding clergy to marry, and without Scripture, that doctrine is FALSE. aLL THERE IS TO IT !

 

[robycop3]

Non-sequitur. (No one is forbidden from getting married in the Catholic Church.)

---> Read this

NOT EVEN ORDAINED CLERGY???????????????

 

[church mouse guy]

It's amazing to see Protestants justify their adultery.

It is important to contrast that belief with the light of the truth of Catholic Church's teaching, which is that divorce and remarriage is adultery, as our Blessed Lord explicitly states.

Really? Advocating divorce, which Jews practiced, is the same as advocating adultery? Moses allowed it according to Deuteronomy and Jesus remarked about that in a verse that you quoted but the RCC says that Moses was wrong on that point.

What are you going to say when Pope Francis at the Amazon Synod rules that divorced and remarried Catholics will now be allowed communion? That is on the agenda.

 

[church mouse guy]

Like your previous post advocating adultery, it is important that all this from the Amazon Synod comes to light. We need a clear idea and separation of truth and evil. For example, we know at least where you stand, advocating adultery in your previous post, whereas we know Christ condemns it. You have made your stance clear. With this Amazon Synod, the more they are exposed for what is really happening, the better in the long run. Their proposals, ceremonies and everything and important to see as it shows us where they stand and what we are fighting against.

Sometimes God works by way of contrasts. Now we are seeing what happens when the forces the Church previously fought gain traction and prevail temporarily. It’s no longer theoretical or a threat. It is a reality and the faithful must lead to suffer faithfully and to persevere.

Trent came after the Protestant Reformation...

Pope Francis does not support Trent and wants to move on to a new paganism. One of the churches near the Vatican has a photograph showing an Amazon woman nursing both a dog and a human baby. That is what the Amazon Synod is all about. You are going to have women deacons and maybe women priests. Frances is a Jesuit. He thinks that homosexuality is natural. He was caught lying by Vigano. He should resign but he won't. He may get worse as he gets older.

 

[Walter]

Priests are not allowed to marry after their ordination. You are the one telling lies here.

So you are calling me a liar. How very Christ-like of you! I said you were 'perpetuating a lie', I believe innocently. You are blatantly calling me a liar. Shame on you!

If a person wants to marry then the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church is probably the choice. The person can opt for one of the MANY other rites of the Catholic Church. If they marry in one of those other rites while a deacon then they will be married as a priest. However, if they are celibate when ordained to the priesthood the mutual understanding is that they agree to remain celibate during their ministry. This is all clearly understood before a man begins the process of discernment for the ministry.

 

[Salty]

Since things have not tone down - this thread will closed no sooner than 10 pm EDT tonight.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

In the RCC, in the Latin Rite married Anglican\Episocopal priests are allowed to "lateral" over to the RCC priesthood. The RCC also had Easter Rite parishes with marrried priests.

Priests are not allowed to marry after their ordination. You are the one telling lies here.

 

[robycop3]

There's a RC church about 6 blox from my home, which is has a large bingo game every week, drawing many fairly-wealthy people from Huntington, WV as well as the Ohio locals. I've known its priest for years, & he told me a few years ago that once a man enters priesthood training, he's not permitted to marry. (Far as I know, this priest is above reproach.)

But I will always maintain that there's no Scripture forbidding married clergy, & thus, that RC "discipline" is wrong. Nothing will change my mind on that, as I have many Bibles that tell me so.

 

[JoeT]

Really? Advocating divorce, which Jews practiced, is the same as advocating adultery?

Moses allowed it according to Deuteronomy and Jesus remarked about that in a verse that you quoted but the RCC says that Moses was wrong on that point.

So, I guess you have a choice to make, Moses or Jesus.

What are you going to say when Pope Francis at the Amazon Synod rules that divorced and remarried Catholics will now be allowed communion? That is on the agenda.

Shouldn't we wait to see what the Pope does say. Let's see if he goes against 2,000 years of history.

JoeT

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

Since things have not tone down - this thread will closed no sooner than 10 pm EDT tonight.