The Flat Earth myth and the Bible.

[Reynolds]

This is such a easy question. Lets use math problem to solve it. This is what people are told. the earth is spinning a 60,000 mph through space, and the earth is rotating at 1000 mph. And the earth is spinning moving eastward kinda. Of course that is changing second by second. But lets start there.
If the earth was a globe a person as the smallest diameter of the globe would be moving faster then a person near the top of the globe. If the globe was spinning around a axis. The reason is less distance moving around the axis. Which does not happen. Thus we are not on a globe earth. If you were one a globe you could jump up and would come down 45 foot away from were you jumped up. And that does not happen. Math is a powerful tool. If you were own a globe and flew from Florida to LA. One way would be faster then the other way. If the earth is spinning below you.

Are you serious or being sarcastic? If you are being serious, maybe you should add Physics to your box of tools.


Having said that, as a long range shooter, I do know that you have to compensate for the rotation of the Earth. That is actually further evidence the Earth is a sphere, not evidence against.

 

[John of Japan]

What is it with you? I would prefer that you try to have a Christian discussion rather than name-calling and saying that I'm calling Jesus a liar? What makes you the expert on this topic?

Introduction to the Pentateuch

Look again. I called you no names. But you are following liberal "scholarship." I'm not saying you are a liberal, just that you are following liberals by your posts on this thread. And there is no need to give me a link to someone's study on the Pentateuch on the Internet. I have various books in my library on the subject, as well as Keil & Delitzsch (who opposed Wellhausen).

Wolf (An Introduction to the Old Testament Pentateuch) has noted that few subjects in Old Testament studies have generated more discussion and more disagreement than the question of who wrote the Pentateuch. Opinions range widely with some arguing that every word was written by Moses, while others insist that Moses had nothing whatever to do with the writing of the Pentateuch. Instead it is claimed that certain ancient sources, labeled J, E, P, and D, were the original documents from which the Pentateuch was formed, and that the writers of these alleged documents, the so-called Yahwist, Elohist, Priestly Code writer, and the Deuteronomist, are regarded as the true authors of the Pentateuch. (See, Archer 1985:83-108, and Wolf 1991:62-70, for a detailed discussion of the documentary hypothesis of the Pentateuch.)

I've known about the JEDP hypothesis (it doesn't rise to the level of theory) for decades. It was wrong when I learned about it, and it's still wrong. There is absolutely no real evidence for the JEDP hypothesis except for liberals feverishly tearing apart the Torah: no historical evidence, no internal evidence, no external evidence.

"Nonconservative scholars quietly ignore those who defend a traditional viewpoint on authorship" (Dillard and Longman, An Introduction to the Old Testament, p. 39).

The truth is, even liberal scholars are in disarray about JEDP, unable to agree. "A further indication of the collapse of the traditional documentary hypothesis is the widely expressed doubt that E was ever an independent source" (ibid, 46).

Herbert Martin Wolf was a Professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College and member of NIV Translation Committee. What are your credentials?

I'm a professor of ancient languages and Bible, and the lead translator for the Lifeline Japanese NT.

Besides, how do you explain the fact that the last chapter of Deuteronomy discusses Moses' death and burial?

Please be aware that you are now derailing the thread, but I'll answer this one question. I believe Joshua may have written the ending to the Torah, but Moses could very well have written it by divine revelation before his death. Other than that, conservative scholarship is unanimous about the authorship of the Torah being Moses. JEDP is strictly liberal.

 

[InTheLight]

Are you serious or being sarcastic? If you are being serious, maybe you should add Physics to your box of tools.

It is quite entertaining reading. Very similar to the entertainment gleaned by observing the laws of physics from watching Roadrunner cartoons!

 

[Reynolds]

It is quite entertaining reading. Very similar to the entertainment gleaned by observing the laws of physics from watching Roadrunner cartoons!

Very similar indeed.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Look again. I called you no names. But you are following liberal "scholarship." I'm not saying you are a liberal, just that you are following liberals by your posts on this thread. And there is no need to give me a link to someone's study on the Pentateuch on the Internet. I have various books in my library on the subject, as well as Keil & Delitzsch (who opposed Wellhausen).
I've known about the JEDP hypothesis (it doesn't rise to the level of theory) for decades. It was wrong when I learned about it, and it's still wrong. There is absolutely no real evidence for the JEDP hypothesis except for liberals feverishly tearing apart the Torah: no historical evidence, no internal evidence, no external evidence.

"Nonconservative scholars quietly ignore those who defend a traditional viewpoint on authorship" (Dillard and Longman, An Introduction to the Old Testament, p. 39).

The truth is, even liberal scholars are in disarray about JEDP, unable to agree. "A further indication of the collapse of the traditional documentary hypothesis is the widely expressed doubt that E was ever an independent source" (ibid, 46).

I'm a professor of ancient languages and Bible, and the lead translator for the Lifeline Japanese NT.
Please be aware that you are now derailing the thread, but I'll answer this one question. I believe Joshua may have written the ending to the Torah, but Moses could very well have written it by divine revelation before his death. Other than that, conservative scholarship is unanimous about the authorship of the Torah being Moses. JEDP is strictly liberal.

I respect your background and knowledge on this subject. I talked to my brother who graduated from the Southern Baptist Seminary about this. He agreed there has been and still is a debate on the timing and authorship of the Pentateuch.

Actually, I would be the first one to say that I am certainly not (nor is Jim) an authority on this. I was simply making an assumption about the timing of the writing of the OT to look at the principal question of this thread which is whether or not the writers of the Bible ever believed in a flat earth. Taking the authorship back 500 years earlier than I assumed simply reinforces my argument. Most certainly, in 1300-1200 BC a flat earth would have been the prevailing world view. I'm sorry to have been a bit argumentative about this and apologize.

 

[John of Japan]

I'm sorry to have been a bit argumentative about this and apologize.

That's gracious. Thanks and God bless.

 

[TCassidy]

Most certainly, in 1300-1200 BC a flat earth would have been the prevailing world view.

The prevailing world view of that time would have also denied the LORD. "Prevailing world view" is, in my opinion, not only a poor argument, but one that is contra-factual to anyone of faith.

 

[John of Japan]

It is quite entertaining reading. Very similar to the entertainment gleaned by observing the laws of physics from watching Roadrunner cartoons!

Cartoon physics is, of course, a separate discipline from regular physics. Or maybe a subset of regular physics, like particle physics.

 

[rlvaughn]

We took a trail of discussion about whether Moses wrote the Pentateuch earlier. I thought it worthy of its own thread, so I started one -- Jesus and the Books of Moses.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I've known about the JEDP hypothesis (it doesn't rise to the level of theory) for decades. It was wrong when I learned about it, and it's still wrong. There is absolutely no real evidence for the JEDP hypothesis except for liberals feverishly tearing apart the Torah: no historical evidence, no internal evidence, no external evidence.

I wonder if you've ever read the spoof JEPD article on Winnie the Pooh. It's a scream!
New Directions in Pooh Studies: Überlieferungs- und traditionsgeschichtliche Studien zum Pu-Buch
You have to scroll down just a bit to get the article. It requires some knowledge of the Winnie the Pooh children's books by A.A. Milne to appreciate the joke.

 

[rsr]

But how can we take the analysis seriously when he declines to address the totemic function of the Honey Pot? Obviously he need to expand his explication.

 

[Joseph shall add]

And, of course, the atmosphere rotates at the same speed as the planet itself

If the atmosphere rotates at the same speed as the planet then why would it produce wind. Bullets drop over a distance has nothing to do with the curvature of the earth.
The power of the mussel pressure has dropped off. Bullets are moving in a ocean of H20. Resulting in drag & the Bullet weight is bringing it down. That is why you can shoot a bullet straight up and it will come straight down. I would not advise that as it has not worked out to well for people whom did it.
Simple said you live in a world of illusion. A good measure in the real world of things is to go to the average Joe that works for a living and ask what he has seen. I ask a Guy that sets up the missiles for the Navy if he allowed for the curvature of the earth in setting up missiles. He said not once in 30 years. And no airline pilot makes corrections for the curvature of the earth. So if it walks like a duck it is indeed a duck.
Why do people rust to agree with the world over God is the question. As you know that the bible states every man is a liar. The only real place you can get truth is in Gods word. But there is common since which God gives men also. If science is saying something different then is in Gods word. Why would you want to believe the people to allow them to be your gods. As in come and fallow us and not God.
These things are all new age religions evolution, metaphysics, psychology, new age science, Naturphilosophie, [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift']paradigm shift, New Physics and traditional forms of [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism']mysticism. The list is extensive. [/URL][/URL]
[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift'][/URL]
Could the world make up be this simple. We live in a protective enclosure covered with a protective dome. Above us is a ocean of water and below us is a ocean of water.
We are on a disk shaped land mass that is round with a thickness to that land mass. We have drilled to a depth of 12 miles and found water all 12 miles then could drill no more. When you see the stars above you are seeing them in the dome. The earth does not move the dome moves about the axis of the north pole. Which means the stars move. The sun and moon move with in that dome. Creating tidal forces at times. Could it be that there are channels in the mist of the sea. And there are rivers currents in the sea. and the tidal forces work with these to produce high and low pressure zones thus resulting in wind and weather. Could be you never know.

But one thing we know for sure is you can't trust the illusion of this world.

 

[TCassidy]

If the atmosphere rotates at the same speed as the planet then why would it produce wind.

This objection has already been answered. Due to Coriolis force. Winds are the result of cyclones and anticyclones, low and high pressure systems move air from high pressure areas to low pressure areas.

Bullets drop over a distance has nothing to do with the curvature of the earth.

It is not the drop that is the problem. It is the movement from left to right, or vice versa. Caused, of course, by the Coriolis force.

 

[FollowTheWay]

That's gracious. Thanks and God bless.

I try (seriously) to be more like Jesus but like all of us I forget that sometimes.

 

[FollowTheWay]

The prevailing world view of that time would have also denied the LORD. "Prevailing world view" is, in my opinion, not only a poor argument, but one that is contra-factual to anyone of faith.

It most certainly is true on matters of faith. One of my favorite passages is:

Mat 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

This is not the case on matters of science. Many great scientists such as Copernicus, Galileo, Servetus (a Spanish physician credited with discovering pulmonary circulation), Descartes, Newton, Hubble, etc. were persecuted by the church.

From the writers of the Old Testament to the popes and prophets of the modern Christian Church, the authors of Judeo-Christianity have attempted to explain just about everything that piqued their curiosity. This ranged from disease (a possession of devils) to the earth's origins (a six-day Creation week), from rain (an opening of water windows in the sky) to the arrangement of planets (hung like ornaments from the giant tent covering that formed the earth's sky). I was told in the 1990's by a fellow deacon that depression is caused by demon possession.

A good introduction to this question can be found here: There is no war between science and Christianity

 

[John of Japan]

I try (seriously) to be more like Jesus but like all of us I forget that sometimes.

Me, too.

 

[Yeshua1]

It most certainly is true on matters of faith. One of my favorite passages is:

Mat 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

This is not the case on matters of science. Many great scientists such as Copernicus, Galileo, Servetus (a Spanish physician credited with discovering pulmonary circulation), Descartes, Newton, Hubble, etc. were persecuted by the church.

From the writers of the Old Testament to the popes and prophets of the modern Christian Church, the authors of Judeo-Christianity have attempted to explain just about everything that piqued their curiosity. This ranged from disease (a possession of devils) to the earth's origins (a six-day Creation week), from rain (an opening of water windows in the sky) to the arrangement of planets (hung like ornaments from the giant tent covering that formed the earth's sky). I was told in the 1990's by a fellow deacon that depression is caused by demon possession.

A good introduction to this question can be found here: There is no war between science and Christianity

The war is between fake science and faith, such as evolution, and denying the literal facts historically of genesis!

 

[FollowTheWay]

The war is between fake science and faith, such as evolution, and denying the literal facts historically of genesis!

Wrong. The contest is between creation science and evolution as scientific theories. I don't accept evolution as a scientific theory entirely because it doesn't account for the major difference between man and all the rest of creation (an eternal soul). Creation theory doesn't yet have enough facts or a theory as robust as Evolution theory. This is NOT a question of faith. I just don't accept the statement that God provided us with all the details about HOW he created the universe in Genesis. That doesn't bother me nor does it affect my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Revmitchell]

Wrong.

no not wrong quite right.

Creation theory doesn't yet have enough facts or a theory as robust as Evolution theory.

Yes they do.

This is NOT a question of faith.

Yes it is.

I just don't accept the statement that God provided us with all the details about HOW he created the universe in Genesis. That doesn't bother me nor does it affect my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I do not think anyone claims this, however where God has given us details they are correct and literal. Denying the creation account as literal effects the gospel.

 

[rlvaughn]

This part is a matter of faith:

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.