The flimsy foundation of ME

[Hope of Glory]

1. To the Corinthians who were riddled with problems Paul says, To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours... who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord (1 Cor 1:2, 8-9; emphasis mine).

Do you think that just because they had problems they didn't have an outward showing that they were saints?

Show me an assembly that doesn't have problems.

It's like the joke goes, there was a man who was stranded alone on a desert island, and after a few years, he was discovered. The people on the boat that rescued him asked him why he had three buildings. "Well, that one's my house, and the other one's my church."

"What about the third one?"

"Oh, that's where I used to go to church. They had problems, though."

There are many assemblies that have problems (all of them) to varying degrees. Doesn't mean they don't behave in a godly and upright manner overall.

 

[TCGreek]

Do you think that just because they had problems they didn't have an outward showing that they were saints?

Show me an assembly that doesn't have problems.

It's like the joke goes, there was a man who was stranded alone on a desert island, and after a few years, he was discovered. The people on the boat that rescued him asked him why he had three buildings. "Well, that one's my house, and the other one's my church."

"What about the third one?"

"Oh, that's where I used to go to church. They had problems, though."

There are many assemblies that have problems (all of them) to varying degrees. Doesn't mean they don't behave in a godly and upright manner overall.

1. They were divisive, taking each other to court, abusing the communion, spiritual gifts, one man sleeping with his stepmom, etc.

2. What about this is godly?

 

[Amy.G]

If it's a done deal and finished based on my one-time faith in the Substitute then why does the Bible require a life-long faith as well? Why do I need to be chastened if everything is finished. Finished means complete, correct? If I'm still being chastened it doesn't sound to me like everything is finished and a done deal.

Maybe you can explain that one to me?

It is finished in the judicial sense that God has pardoned us. We are no longer under the death penaltly and slavery or imprisonment of sin. We have been justified. We have been made right with God. The debt is settled. So in that respect we will never incur the wrath of God. But after justification, comes sanctification. We will be conformed to the image of Christ. This takes place first and foremost through the Holy Spirit, but also through discipline. This occurs in this lifetime. Once we die, the race is over. We will be reward for the good things we've done and we will lose rewards (that we could have had) for the bad things we've done. I believe the bad things include grieving the Holy Spirit, not conforming through discipline, or only conforming for brief periods, teaching false doctrines eek: ), lack of spiritual growth among others.

But, scripture is crystal clear that NO believer will receive God's wrath that has been set aside for the wicked.

The verses in Colossians prove that.

 

[Lazarus]

It is finished in the judicial sense that God has pardoned us. We are no longer under the death penaltly and slavery or imprisonment of sin. We have been justified. We have been made right with God. The debt is settled. So in that respect we will never incur the wrath of God. But after justification, comes sanctification. We will be conformed to the image of Christ. This takes place first and foremost through the Holy Spirit, but also through discipline. This occurs in this lifetime. Once we die, the race is over. We will be reward for the good things we've done and we will lose rewards (that we could have had) for the bad things we've done.

100% Amen!!!!!!!!:godisgood:

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

BGTF you gave two passages of Scripture of which neither was dealing with the bride of Christ.

It seems to me that "your" working definition of the church is a pretty typical Lordship salvation type definition and that is unless you really and truly believe and are producing the right walk you really don't belong to the church.

This can also be seen from the statement that I quoted here that most of the visible church today is lukewarm and will be spewed out. I'm taking that to mean that you think these people aren't really saved in the first place?

So we still have some stuff to get through before we move on.

Both passages were certainly dealing with the bride of Christ.

So do you belong to 'the true church' or not?

In regards to the spewing, it matters not what I think, I am not the final judge. You must take up your argument with Christ, they are His words for the church of this period in Rev 3:14-22.


BGTF

 

[Hope of Glory]

1. They were divisive, taking each other to court, abusing the communion, spiritual gifts, one man sleeping with his stepmom, etc.

2. What about this is godly?

Once again, who said that those specific bahaviors are godly?

Is it godly for a person to lie to save on his taxes? Can a person still be saintly and do so?

By the same token, an assembly full of people who are walking in the ordinaces of the Lord, with an outward showing of such, but with some who sin, even great sin.

 

[TCGreek]

Once again, who said that those specific bahaviors are godly?

Is it godly for a person to lie to save on his taxes? Can a person still be saintly and do so?

By the same token, an assembly full of people who are walking in the ordinaces of the Lord, with an outward showing of such, but with some who sin, even great sin.

What are you looking for?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God. (Psalms 9:17)

Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked. (Psalms 97:10)

It is the wicked who will go to hell, not the righteous.

God will no deliver His saints into the hand of the wicked. He will not put them in hell with the wicked.

 

[J. Jump]

Both passages were certainly dealing with the bride of Christ.

BGTF well I will have to back away from my previous statement because your second verse in the final analysis can be speaking on the bride of Christ now that the offer of the kingdom is open to Gentiles.

However when that was written it the audience it was written to was not speaking of the bride of Christ, but was actually speaking of Israel which is the bride of the Father not Christ, but that's a whole different matter.

The point was and still is that neither of the two verses say that all saved people are going to be included in the bride of Christ. Neither of the two verses even imply that. And you can't compare Scripture with Scripture and come to that conclusion either.

So the analysis that you are still short of Scriptural support for every saved person being a part of the bride still stands.

Here's one of the biggest reasons why no every saved individual is going to make up the bride and that's because there are saved individuals that are in open and active rebellion toward God. They are neither faithful nor obedient and they are being overcome by Satan, the flesh and/or the world.

Those people aren't going to be the bride of Christ. There's no way a Perfect Judge is going to allow the disobedient, unfaithful, non-overcoming folks to be part of His bride.

If He did then there would be absolutely no reason to go through the sanctification process, the disciplining process or the chastening process or whatever process you want to call it.

If He was going to accept you as is and marry you as is then you could live for the world and enjoy all the indulgences this world has to offer and then still enjoy all that being part of the bride means as well.

There is simply no Scriptural support for that. If there is please share it.

 

[J. Jump]

God will no deliver His saints into the hand of the wicked.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! That's what we have always said. But your going to have to show were Scripture says that all saved people are saints. I find no evidence of that.

Saints are those that are faithful, obedient and overcoming. Those that are not those things are not saints.

 

[Amy.G]

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! That's what we have always said. But your going to have to show were Scripture says that all saved people are saints. I find no evidence of that.

Saints are those that are faithful, obedient and overcoming. Those that are not those things are not saints.

No. The word saints means holy ones.

How are they made holy?

 

[J. Jump]

No. The word saints means holy ones.

Makes no difference the same still stands. Scripture does not equate all saved people as holy ones. If you are disobedient, unfaithful and non-overcoming you are NOT a holy one.

We are commanded to be holy as He is holy, so that's not talking about what happens the moment we are saved. If it is then there would be no need to command us to be something we already are.

I don't command my son to be a Jump, because he already is. Just as God doesn't command us to be His child, because we already are. However we can't be holy in the way that the verse is speaking contextually, because He commands us that we be holy as He is holy.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Saints are those that are faithful, obedient and overcoming. Those that are not those things are not saints.

Chapter and verse, please!

 

[J. Jump]

Chapter and verse, please!

Well just answer this question. Is a person that is rebellious, unrepentant, unfaithful, and is being overcome by Satan, the flesh and or the world a holy one?

If you say yes then I think it is you that needs to put for some Scripture that says as much.

I find no Scripture that saint includes all saved people. If you have it then you should be able to readily quote it or at least find it.

 

[Amy.G]

Makes no difference the same still stands. Scripture does not equate all saved people as holy ones. If you are disobedient, unfaithful and non-overcoming you are NOT a holy one.

We are commanded to be holy as He is holy, so that's not talking about what happens the moment we are saved. If it is then there would be no need to command us to be something we already are.

I don't command my son to be a Jump, because he already is. Just as God doesn't command us to be His child, because we already are. However we can't be holy in the way that the verse is speaking contextually, because He commands us that we be holy as He is holy.

If you are not a "holy one" (saint), then you are not saved.

We are made holy by our faith in Christ.

 

[Amy.G]

Well just answer this question. Is a person that is rebellious, unrepentant, unfaithful, and is being overcome by Satan, the flesh and or the world a holy one?

If you say yes then I think it is you that needs to put for some Scripture that says as much.

I find no Scripture that saint includes all saved people. If you have it then you should be able to readily quote it or at least find it.

It doesn't have to say expicitly that "saint means holy one". Holy one is the Greek for saint. Can't you understand that?

How is a person made holy?????


An unrepentant person is unsaved.

 

[J. Jump]

If you are not a "holy one" (saint), then you are not saved.

Scripture?

We are made holy by our faith in Christ.

I have already shown you this statement is false according to Scripture, because I'm going to assume that you are speaking of the faith that allows us to receive everlasting life. Scripture tells us that we are to be holy as He is holy. That was a command to folks that were already "saved." The faith that gave us everlasting life is NOT the same thing that makes us holy or God would not have commanded these saved people to be holy.

That makes about as much sense as you telling me that I have to seek forgiveness for something that has already been forgiven. That just doesn't even make sense even using human reasoning much less Biblical reasoning. You don't seek forgiveness for something that is already forgiven. That would be pointless.

 

[J. Jump]

An unrepentant person is unsaved.

Slipped another comment in on me while I was typing.

And I've already proven that this statement is incorrect as well unless you want to say that some posters posting in these threads aren't saved, because you have some sin going on here that no one to date has made ammends for. I don't think that needs to be readdressed, but to say that your statement has no Scriptural validity to it at all.

David was unrepentant for quite a while after he committed adultery and then had a guy murdered.

 

[npetreley]

If you are not a "holy one" (saint), then you are not saved.

We are made holy by our faith in Christ.

Amen, Amy. Paul addresses epistles to the saints because the letters were to believers.

 

[J. Jump]

It doesn't have to say expicitly that "saint means holy one". Holy one is the Greek for saint. Can't you understand that?

Not only do I understand that, but I have made that abundantly clear if you would actually take the time to read my posts.

But can't you understand that God wouldn't command someone to be something they already are?