The flimsy foundation of ME

[Amy.G]

Slipped another comment in on me while I was typing.

And I've already proven that this statement is incorrect as well unless you want to say that some posters posting in these threads aren't saved, because you have some sin going on here that no one to date has made ammends for. I don't think that needs to be readdressed, but to say that your statement has no Scriptural validity to it at all.

David was unrepentant for quite a while after he committed adultery and then had a guy murdered.

But, he did repent. Unrepentant indicates a refusal to repent. We may resist for awhile, but through the discipline of God we turn back to Him, and "afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness".

 

[Amy.G]

JJump,
How are we made holy?

Is it possible to be holy as God is holy? If so, how?

 

[Lazarus]

Is a person that is rebellious, unrepentant, unfaithful, and is being overcome by Satan, the flesh and or the world a holy one?

A person who show's the above qualities is not saved. True salvation brings the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which convicts us of sin. A saved person has no desire to act in the above manor.

1Jo 2:1 ¶ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

A Christian isn't perfect and will sin on occasion. When we sin we have Jesus as our advocate. However, sinning and living in sin are two different things.

Your gospel J Jump just doesn't work in light of the gospel of grace.

 

[J. Jump]

But, he did repent.

Just because you have the final ending doesn't mean anything. All that does is leave you a loop hole to back out of your senseless theology.

Unrepentant indicates a refusal to repent.

Again are you reading the same posts I am?

We may resist for awhile

How long do you get? A day? A week? A month? A year? 5 years? 10 years? 25 years? 50 years?

but through the discipline of God we turn back to Him, and "afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness".

Again you keep posting but you have given NO Scripture to back up your claim. Please show me where is says we are guaranteed to repent.

I know that can't be true, because you have admitted several times before that people are going to die with unconfessed sin, which means guess what . . . that wasn't repented of either.

So many holes.

 

[J. Jump]

A person who show's the above qualities is not saved.

Sorry, but that's your opinion. That's not backed up by Scripture. Scripture says believe and you WILL BE SAVED. That doesn't say you WILL BE SAVED as long as you don't practice sin or you confess all your sin or whatever else you want to tag on. Believe and you are saved. Period. End of Biblical discussion. All else is added by man.

 

[J. Jump]

However, sinning and living in sin are two different things.

You are right they are two different things, but if you think a saved person can't live in sin then you are fooling yourself, because the Bible says you will reap what you sow. If you sow (that's not an occasional sin) to the flesh you are going to reap corruption.

There's just so many more examples that can be said to squash "your" theology.

 

[Lazarus]

Well J Jump the scripture says to believe in your heart. There is head belief and heart belief. Head belief is easy, heart belief comes only by the work of God.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If your belief doesn't come from the Father then you don't have heart belief. If you don't have heart belief you aren't saved.

Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

BGTF well I will have to back away from my previous statement because your second verse in the final analysis can be speaking on the bride of Christ now that the offer of the kingdom is open to Gentiles.

However when that was written it the audience it was written to was not speaking of the bride of Christ, but was actually speaking of Israel which is the bride of the Father not Christ, but that's a whole different matter.

The point was and still is that neither of the two verses say that all saved people are going to be included in the bride of Christ. Neither of the two verses even imply that. And you can't compare Scripture with Scripture and come to that conclusion either.

So the analysis that you are still short of Scriptural support for every saved person being a part of the bride still stands.

Here's one of the biggest reasons why no every saved individual is going to make up the bride and that's because there are saved individuals that are in open and active rebellion toward God. They are neither faithful nor obedient and they are being overcome by Satan, the flesh and/or the world.

Those people aren't going to be the bride of Christ. There's no way a Perfect Judge is going to allow the disobedient, unfaithful, non-overcoming folks to be part of His bride.

If He did then there would be absolutely no reason to go through the sanctification process, the disciplining process or the chastening process or whatever process you want to call it.

If He was going to accept you as is and marry you as is then you could live for the world and enjoy all the indulgences this world has to offer and then still enjoy all that being part of the bride means as well.

There is simply no Scriptural support for that. If there is please share it.

Repeating my question:
Do you belong to the true church or not?

And a couple new ones:
Will you spend the 1000 years in the lake of fire or not?

How did you arrive at your answer?



BGTF

 

[npetreley]

And a couple new ones:
Will you spend the 1000 years in the lake of fire or not?

How did you arrive at your answer?

Wow, I hope someone quotes the answer so I don't miss it. Wait until I get some popcorn, though, this should be good.

 

[Amy.G]

Sorry, but that's your opinion. That's not backed up by Scripture. Scripture says believe and you WILL BE SAVED. That doesn't say you WILL BE SAVED as long as you don't practice sin or you confess all your sin or whatever else you want to tag on. Believe and you are saved. Period. End of Biblical discussion. All else is added by man.

Then why do you say that a person can stop believing, yet they are still saved?

Also, you didn't answer my questions:

How are we made holy?

Is it possible for human beings to be holy as God is holy?

 

[TCGreek]

If you are not a "holy one" (saint), then you are not saved.

We are made holy by our faith in Christ.

1. "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours" (1 Corinthians 1:2).

2. At the moment of trust in Christ, at salvation, we are sanctified, and we are saints by calling.

3. Do saints sin? Absolutely!

 

[Amy.G]

Well, maybe JJump will answer our questions tomorrow. I will bring them up again. I would like to know how he thinks we are made holy.

 

[J. Jump]

Then why do you say that a person can stop believing, yet they are still saved?

I've already answered that Amy. The Bible doesn't require faith outside of the very moment a person believes. If after that person believes and 15 years goes by and they suddenly decide that they don't believe in God/Christ/Spirit anymore it doesn't matter because they are not required to believe 15 years after. There everlasting life was secured 15 years prior.

Is it possible for human beings to be holy as God is holy?

Do you think God would demand something of you that was impossible? He commanded us to be holy as He is holy. Does God require the impossible and then not provide a way? I don't think so. Scripture doesn't indicate that in any way.

 

[TCGreek]

I've already answered that Amy. The Bible doesn't require faith outside of the very moment a person believes. If after that person believes and 15 years goes by and they suddenly decide that they don't believe in God/Christ/Spirit anymore it doesn't matter because they are not required to believe 15 years after. There everlasting life was secured 15 years prior.

Is every profession of faith in Christ genuine and therefore pronounces the person saved?

 

[J. Jump]

Is every profession of faith in Christ genuine and therefore pronounces the person saved?

If a person professes that Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God died on their behalf a sinner then absolutely yes everyone of those professions pronounces that person saved according to Scripture.

 

[TCGreek]

If a person professes that Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God died on their behalf a sinner then absolutely yes everyone of those professions pronounces that person saved according to Scripture.

Is everyone profession of faith in Christ genuine?

 

[Lacy Evans]

Well, maybe JJump will answer our questions tomorrow. I will bring them up again. I would like to know how he thinks we are made holy.

I'll Jjump in here, but you probably won't like my answer. I would hope you would at least prayerfully consider my argument before popping off with some sarcastic remark about how I believe this or that.

You and jump are both correct. (Although he might agree with your side, but say you're missing the other side of the coin)

There are two kinds of Righteousness in the Bible, positional (When God looks at me all he sees is Jesus) and practical. (This is the kind attained by obeying the scriptures that tell (those already "positionally" holy) to resist temptation, to mortify the flesh, to wrestle, to run, to fight, to work, etc.

Let me show you some examples in scripture:

Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Here is, in my opinion, Paul just saying, "Hey! I am speaking to Christians here!" So this holiness is the absolute holiness of Christ that we all have automatically as a free gift when we believe. This holiness is based on Christ's atoning blood alone, and can have no help from anything that we do.

1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

OTOH, here are some clear examples of commands for those of us already made holy in an absolute and positional sense, to WALK holy. There is a holiness that we must attain to, fight for, and work toward. This holiness is based on the blood of Christ now acting as our high priest and sanctifying our filthy-rag works. Now our works are made acceptable to the Father, (and neither automatic, nor optional.)

2 Peter 3:10-14
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

In this passage you again see that we are to walk in "holy conversation" (lifestyle), not just walk in holy salvation.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Is everyone profession of faith in Christ genuine?

The thing is, if "professors" are being addressed, then there is one gospel for an unbeliever, "Believe on the finished work of Christ" and another gospel for "False professors", "Be a good boy and don't sin."

You end up with much more serious problems than a believer in Hell for 1000 years. You end up with a works based doctrine.

 

[TCGreek]

The thing is, if "professors" are being addressed, then there is one gospel for an unbeliever, "Believe on the finished work of Christ" and another gospel for "False professors", "Be a good boy and don't sin."

You end up with much more serious problems than a believer in Hell for 1000 years. You end up with a works based doctrine.

1. Your either/or fallacy has failed to answer my question.

2. I will ask it again: Is every profession of faith in Christ genuine?

 

[Lacy Evans]

1. Your either/or fallacy has failed to answer my question.

2. I will ask it again: Is every profession of faith in Christ genuine?

It's not your question that i have a problem with. It's the apparant implication. You seem to be saying that, since their might be some folks who are unsaved (false professors) hanging around, that the warnings are somehow directed to them, rather than the "true" Christians.

I cannot say whether or not a man's confession is genuine. I can say that if he has ever once believed, in the finished work of Christ's atoning sacrifice on his behalf, that he is saved.

I also believe that whether or not a "confession is genuine" makes no difference doctrinally in the passages we are discussing, because it doesn't change who the warnings are addressed to.


In Christ, lacy