The Free Offer Of The Gospel

[atpollard]

As I said do you think that God does not have the ability to reach those that cry out to Him wherever they may be?

Romans 10:13-15 [NASB95]

13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
​

synergism = unequal opportunity.
Capisci?

 

[atpollard]

According to calvinism those that God chooses for Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. Your own theology precludes this, but you just do not want to acknowledge that fact.

What harm is it to the free will of other men if God irresistibly Draws some? How has that harmed those NOT DRAWN? Nobody worth taking seriously has ever suggested that God actively shoves some away from salvation to prevent them from reaching Him. So those that are not IRRESISTIBLY DRAWN have the same chance as they do under Free Will theology ... none according to scripture because they desire to be enemies of God.

The only difference between Reformed Sotieriology and Free Will Sotieriology is that Reformed believes that God tries to save some and succeeds in saving all that He tries to save, while Free Will believes that God tries to save all and fails to save most of those He tried to save. The concept of a God that tries and fails runs contrary to scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

pt2;
For a man to suppose, to be persuaded, that he saves himself is a gross error and mistake. Can a temple build itself? We are God’s temple, of God’s own building [1 Corinthians 6:19]. God is the architect and the planner. God is the builder, and God created the materials and gathered them out of which His temple is made. Can creation create itself? Only in the foolishness of the pseudoscientific books; creation never creates itself. Out of nothing, nothing comes. Only by the divine fiat of God can there come out of nothing the universe in which we live and the establishment of our own souls and bodies [Genesis 1:1-28]. In nowise, in no time, in no place, out of nothing can something come.

Thus it is with our salvation. God creates and God recreates. He who made us in the first place can, does, and will remake us again [2 Corinthians 5:2]. And out of the dust of ground God shall raise these temples to live in His sight, glorified, immortalized, transfigured [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17], like the glorious house in which our Savior and elder Brother is now clothed in glory [Romans 8:29; Philippians 3:21].

Does death give birth to life? Could Lazarus raise himself? Dead, corrupting, lying there in the tomb and to lie there forever and forever and forever, were it not for the power of Him who can speak life and resurrection to the dead [John 11:43-44]. As a dead man cannot raise himself, as a dead man is hopeless before God and powerless to live in His sight, so we are in our souls and in our bodies, dead, buried, corrupting, under the judgment and penalty of sin and death [Genesis 3:19].

Salvation is of God. It is the voice of the mighty God who can speak and Lazarus come forth [John 11:43-44]. It is the voice of the mighty God who shall speak to these who sleep in the heart of the earth, in the depths of the sea, wasted in the dust of creation [John 5:25; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17]. They shall stand up like a mighty army [Ezekiel 37:10], and live in this His sight someday, some glorious day, in the power of God, “Who hath saved us, and called us . . . not according to our works, but according to His own purpose of grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began” [2 Timothy 1:9].

Just so you know I can do copy paste also.

Christians Courageous!
[2 Timothy 1:1-18] Wiersbe Bible Commentary: New Testament​

When Paul wrote the letter we know as 2 Timothy, his situation had changed drastically. But Paul’s great concern was not for himself; it was for Timothy and the success of the Gospel ministry. As we have learned, Timothy was timid, suffered from physical ailments, and was tempted to let other people take advantage of him and not assert his authority as a pastor.

The ministry of the Gospel is no place for a “timid soul” who lacks enthusiasm. In fact, courageous enthusiasm is essential for success in any kind of work. Paul compared this attitude to stirring up a fire into full flame (2Ti_1:6). We must not conclude that Timothy was backslidden or lacked spiritual fire. Rather, Paul was encouraging his associate to keep the fire burning brightly so that it might generate spiritual power in his life. Paul gave Timothy four encouragements.

Paul’s love (2Ti_1:1-2)

Paul’s prayers (2Ti_1:3-4)

Paul’s confidence in Timothy (2Ti_1:5)

God’s gift to Timothy (2Ti_1:6-7)

Be not ashamed of the Lord’s testimony (2Ti_1:8-10).

Timothy’s natural timidity might make it easy for him to avoid circumstances that demanded witness and involved suffering. Once again, Paul gave his associate needed encouragement.

God gives us power (2Ti_1:8). By nature, none of us enjoys suffering. Even our Lord prayed, “Father, if Thou be willing, remove this cup from Me” (Luk_22:42); and Paul prayed three times for God to remove his painful thorn in the flesh (2Co_12:7-8). But suffering may well be a part of a faithful Christian life. Christians should not suffer because they have done wrong (1Pe_2:20; 1Pe_3:17); rather, they sometimes suffer because they have done right and served God. When we suffer for doing good, then we are sharing Christ’s sufferings (Php_3:10) and suffering on behalf of the whole church (Col_1:24).

God has called us by His grace (2Ti_1:9). We are part of a great eternal plan that God determined “before the world began.” God knows the end from the beginning. He has purposes for His people to accomplish for His glory. Suffering is a part of His plan. Jesus Christ suffered in the will of God here on earth, and all those who trust in Him will also suffer.

The emphasis in this verse is on grace. God saved us; we did not save ourselves (

Eph_2:8-9; Tit_3:5). He called us, not on the basis of our good works, but wholly on the basis of His grace. It is His purposes that we are to fulfill; and if these purposes include suffering, then we can accept it by faith and know that God’s will is best. This is not fatalism. It is confidence in the wise plan of our gracious Heavenly Father.

All of this grace was given to us in Jesus Christ. We could not earn it; we did not merit it. This is the grace of God!

Christ has defeated death (2Ti_1:10). When we are timid it is because we are afraid. Of what are we afraid? Suffering and possible death? Paul himself was facing death as he dictated this letter. But Jesus Christ has defeated our last enemy, death! By His own death and resurrection, Christ has “abolished death” (made it inoperative, taken out the sting). “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1Co_15:55)

Be not ashamed of the Lord’s prisoner (2Ti_1:11-12).

Though a prisoner, Paul was still bearing witness for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Sad to say, the people in Ephesus had deserted Paul in his time of need (2Ti_1:15). It would have made Timothy’s ministry in Ephesus (and in the surrounding cities; see 2Ti_4:13) much easier if he had gone along with the crowd; but Paul admonished him to remain true. He gave four reasons why Timothy should not be ashamed of his association with Paul, the prisoner.

1] Paul was called by God (2Ti_1:11). Jesus Christ had met Paul on the Damascus road (Act_9:1-43) and had personally called him into the ministry.

Paul was a teacher of the Gentiles. This meant that he shepherded local churches. It was this word Gentiles that put him into prison in Rome the first time (Act_22:21).

2] Paul was not only a herald; he was also an apostle, “one sent with a commission.” Not every Christian was an apostle of Jesus Christ, for a person had to meet certain qualifications and be chosen by the Lord personally, or through His Spirit (see Act_1:15-26; 1Co_9:1; 2Co_12:12). An apostle represented Jesus Christ. To reject an apostle was to reject the Lord.

3] Paul was a teacher of the Gentiles. This meant that he shepherded local churches. It was this word Gentiles that put him into prison in Rome the first time (Act_22:21).

4] Paul was confident in Christ (2Ti_1:12). Paul was not ashamed! Why? Because he knew that Christ was faithful and would keep him. Note his emphasis on the person of Christ: “I know whom I have believed.” Salvation is not the result of believing certain doctrines, though doctrines are important. A sinner is saved because he believes in a Person — Jesus Christ the Saviour. Paul had deposited his soul in the care and keeping of the Saviour, and Paul was sure that Jesus Christ would faithfully guard that deposit. What difference did it make to Paul what happened on any certain day? What really mattered is what will happen on “that day” when Jesus Christ rewards His servants (see 2Ti_1:18; 2Ti_4:8).

 

[AustinC]

Just so you know I can do copy paste also.

Christians Courageous!
[2 Timothy 1:1-18] Wiersbe Bible Commentary: New Testament​

When Paul wrote the letter we know as 2 Timothy, his situation had changed drastically. But Paul’s great concern was not for himself; it was for Timothy and the success of the Gospel ministry. As we have learned, Timothy was timid, suffered from physical ailments, and was tempted to let other people take advantage of him and not assert his authority as a pastor.

The ministry of the Gospel is no place for a “timid soul” who lacks enthusiasm. In fact, courageous enthusiasm is essential for success in any kind of work. Paul compared this attitude to stirring up a fire into full flame (2Ti_1:6). We must not conclude that Timothy was backslidden or lacked spiritual fire. Rather, Paul was encouraging his associate to keep the fire burning brightly so that it might generate spiritual power in his life. Paul gave Timothy four encouragements.

Paul’s love (2Ti_1:1-2)

Paul’s prayers (2Ti_1:3-4)

Paul’s confidence in Timothy (2Ti_1:5)

God’s gift to Timothy (2Ti_1:6-7)

Be not ashamed of the Lord’s testimony (2Ti_1:8-10).

Timothy’s natural timidity might make it easy for him to avoid circumstances that demanded witness and involved suffering. Once again, Paul gave his associate needed encouragement.

God gives us power (2Ti_1:8). By nature, none of us enjoys suffering. Even our Lord prayed, “Father, if Thou be willing, remove this cup from Me” (Luk_22:42); and Paul prayed three times for God to remove his painful thorn in the flesh (2Co_12:7-8). But suffering may well be a part of a faithful Christian life. Christians should not suffer because they have done wrong (1Pe_2:20; 1Pe_3:17); rather, they sometimes suffer because they have done right and served God. When we suffer for doing good, then we are sharing Christ’s sufferings (Php_3:10) and suffering on behalf of the whole church (Col_1:24).

God has called us by His grace (2Ti_1:9). We are part of a great eternal plan that God determined “before the world began.” God knows the end from the beginning. He has purposes for His people to accomplish for His glory. Suffering is a part of His plan. Jesus Christ suffered in the will of God here on earth, and all those who trust in Him will also suffer.

The emphasis in this verse is on grace. God saved us; we did not save ourselves (

Eph_2:8-9; Tit_3:5). He called us, not on the basis of our good works, but wholly on the basis of His grace. It is His purposes that we are to fulfill; and if these purposes include suffering, then we can accept it by faith and know that God’s will is best. This is not fatalism. It is confidence in the wise plan of our gracious Heavenly Father.

All of this grace was given to us in Jesus Christ. We could not earn it; we did not merit it. This is the grace of God!

Christ has defeated death (2Ti_1:10). When we are timid it is because we are afraid. Of what are we afraid? Suffering and possible death? Paul himself was facing death as he dictated this letter. But Jesus Christ has defeated our last enemy, death! By His own death and resurrection, Christ has “abolished death” (made it inoperative, taken out the sting). “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1Co_15:55)

Be not ashamed of the Lord’s prisoner (2Ti_1:11-12).

Though a prisoner, Paul was still bearing witness for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Sad to say, the people in Ephesus had deserted Paul in his time of need (2Ti_1:15). It would have made Timothy’s ministry in Ephesus (and in the surrounding cities; see 2Ti_4:13) much easier if he had gone along with the crowd; but Paul admonished him to remain true. He gave four reasons why Timothy should not be ashamed of his association with Paul, the prisoner.

1] Paul was called by God (2Ti_1:11). Jesus Christ had met Paul on the Damascus road (Act_9:1-43) and had personally called him into the ministry.

Paul was a teacher of the Gentiles. This meant that he shepherded local churches. It was this word Gentiles that put him into prison in Rome the first time (Act_22:21).

2] Paul was not only a herald; he was also an apostle, “one sent with a commission.” Not every Christian was an apostle of Jesus Christ, for a person had to meet certain qualifications and be chosen by the Lord personally, or through His Spirit (see Act_1:15-26; 1Co_9:1; 2Co_12:12). An apostle represented Jesus Christ. To reject an apostle was to reject the Lord.

3] Paul was a teacher of the Gentiles. This meant that he shepherded local churches. It was this word Gentiles that put him into prison in Rome the first time (Act_22:21).

4] Paul was confident in Christ (2Ti_1:12). Paul was not ashamed! Why? Because he knew that Christ was faithful and would keep him. Note his emphasis on the person of Christ: “I know whom I have believed.” Salvation is not the result of believing certain doctrines, though doctrines are important. A sinner is saved because he believes in a Person — Jesus Christ the Saviour. Paul had deposited his soul in the care and keeping of the Saviour, and Paul was sure that Jesus Christ would faithfully guard that deposit. What difference did it make to Paul what happened on any certain day? What really mattered is what will happen on “that day” when Jesus Christ rewards His servants (see 2Ti_1:18; 2Ti_4:8).

From Wiersby:
"The emphasis in this verse is on grace. God saved us; we did not save ourselves

(Eph_2:8-9; Tit_3:5). He called us, not on the basis of our good works, but wholly on the basis of His grace. It is His purposes that we are to fulfill; and if these purposes include suffering, then we can accept it by faith and know that God’s will is best. This is not fatalism. It is confidence in the wise plan of our gracious Heavenly Father.

All of this grace was given to us in Jesus Christ. We could not earn it; we did not merit it. This is the grace of God!"

Silverhair, Wiersby sounds like a calvinist. He pretty much debunks your theology.

 

[Silverhair]

Read the whole instead of cherry picking, Silverhair.
Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Your "order" is not supported by the whole of the text. Essentially, you want God to make you the king while God becomes your advisor. You consistently shock me with your selfishness as you demand your self to be the driver of your life.

As to Romans 10,the entire passage and indeed all of Romans supports the truth that God chooses to make people alive, call their name, give them faith and cause them to believe even as they repent.

All glory to God alone and no glory to yourself.
Yet, you keep arguing that you deserve the glory.

You just will not trust what the bible says if it does not support your calvinism, that view has been determined for you by your version of god. But the God of the bible does not does not decide for people He has given man the free will to make real eternal choices. Just because you do not like that man can make real choices doe not alter the fact that he does.

 

[Silverhair]

From Wiersby:
"The emphasis in this verse is on grace. God saved us; we did not save ourselves

(Eph_2:8-9; Tit_3:5). He called us, not on the basis of our good works, but wholly on the basis of His grace. It is His purposes that we are to fulfill; and if these purposes include suffering, then we can accept it by faith and know that God’s will is best. This is not fatalism. It is confidence in the wise plan of our gracious Heavenly Father.

All of this grace was given to us in Jesus Christ. We could not earn it; we did not merit it. This is the grace of God!"

Silverhair, Wiersby sounds like a calvinist. He pretty much debunks your theology.

"God saved us; we did not save ourselves" agree
"He called us, not on the basis of our good works, but wholly on the basis of His grace." agree

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Salvation results from two things: grace and faith. So what is the role that each plays? The answer is found in the prepositions “by” and “through.”
Who saves us? God saves us. How, by his grace. So what, then, is the role of faith? The key preposition for faith G4102 is “through," G1223 which refers to the means or instrumentality by which we are saved {because of, for this reason}.
We are saved by God’s grace (grace is the ground and agency of our salvation) through faith, which is the reason we receive the gift of salvation. Our faith is viewed as that way by which God’s gracious gift of salvation is received — because of our faith.
Eph_1:13 We hear the gospel, we believe {verb G4100} the gospel, we place our faith {noun G4102} in Christ Jesus, God saves us.

 

[Iconoclast]

Just so you know I can do copy paste also.

Christians Courageous!
[2 Timothy 1:1-18] Wiersbe Bible Commentary: New Testament​

When Paul wrote the letter we know as 2 Timothy, his situation had changed drastically. But Paul’s great concern was not for himself; it was for Timothy and the success of the Gospel ministry. As we have learned, Timothy was timid, suffered from physical ailments, and was tempted to let other people take advantage of him and not assert his authority as a pastor.

The ministry of the Gospel is no place for a “timid soul” who lacks enthusiasm. In fact, courageous enthusiasm is essential for success in any kind of work. Paul compared this attitude to stirring up a fire into full flame (2Ti_1:6). We must not conclude that Timothy was backslidden or lacked spiritual fire. Rather, Paul was encouraging his associate to keep the fire burning brightly so that it might generate spiritual power in his life. Paul gave Timothy four encouragements.

Paul’s love (2Ti_1:1-2)

Paul’s prayers (2Ti_1:3-4)

Paul’s confidence in Timothy (2Ti_1:5)

God’s gift to Timothy (2Ti_1:6-7)

Be not ashamed of the Lord’s testimony (2Ti_1:8-10).

Timothy’s natural timidity might make it easy for him to avoid circumstances that demanded witness and involved suffering. Once again, Paul gave his associate needed encouragement.

God gives us power (2Ti_1:8). By nature, none of us enjoys suffering. Even our Lord prayed, “Father, if Thou be willing, remove this cup from Me” (Luk_22:42); and Paul prayed three times for God to remove his painful thorn in the flesh (2Co_12:7-8). But suffering may well be a part of a faithful Christian life. Christians should not suffer because they have done wrong (1Pe_2:20; 1Pe_3:17); rather, they sometimes suffer because they have done right and served God. When we suffer for doing good, then we are sharing Christ’s sufferings (Php_3:10) and suffering on behalf of the whole church (Col_1:24).

God has called us by His grace (2Ti_1:9). We are part of a great eternal plan that God determined “before the world began.” God knows the end from the beginning. He has purposes for His people to accomplish for His glory. Suffering is a part of His plan. Jesus Christ suffered in the will of God here on earth, and all those who trust in Him will also suffer.

The emphasis in this verse is on grace. God saved us; we did not save ourselves (

Eph_2:8-9; Tit_3:5). He called us, not on the basis of our good works, but wholly on the basis of His grace. It is His purposes that we are to fulfill; and if these purposes include suffering, then we can accept it by faith and know that God’s will is best. This is not fatalism. It is confidence in the wise plan of our gracious Heavenly Father.

All of this grace was given to us in Jesus Christ. We could not earn it; we did not merit it. This is the grace of God!

Christ has defeated death (2Ti_1:10). When we are timid it is because we are afraid. Of what are we afraid? Suffering and possible death? Paul himself was facing death as he dictated this letter. But Jesus Christ has defeated our last enemy, death! By His own death and resurrection, Christ has “abolished death” (made it inoperative, taken out the sting). “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1Co_15:55)

Be not ashamed of the Lord’s prisoner (2Ti_1:11-12).

Though a prisoner, Paul was still bearing witness for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Sad to say, the people in Ephesus had deserted Paul in his time of need (2Ti_1:15). It would have made Timothy’s ministry in Ephesus (and in the surrounding cities; see 2Ti_4:13) much easier if he had gone along with the crowd; but Paul admonished him to remain true. He gave four reasons why Timothy should not be ashamed of his association with Paul, the prisoner.

1] Paul was called by God (2Ti_1:11). Jesus Christ had met Paul on the Damascus road (Act_9:1-43) and had personally called him into the ministry.

Paul was a teacher of the Gentiles. This meant that he shepherded local churches. It was this word Gentiles that put him into prison in Rome the first time (Act_22:21).

2] Paul was not only a herald; he was also an apostle, “one sent with a commission.” Not every Christian was an apostle of Jesus Christ, for a person had to meet certain qualifications and be chosen by the Lord personally, or through His Spirit (see Act_1:15-26; 1Co_9:1; 2Co_12:12). An apostle represented Jesus Christ. To reject an apostle was to reject the Lord.

3] Paul was a teacher of the Gentiles. This meant that he shepherded local churches. It was this word Gentiles that put him into prison in Rome the first time (Act_22:21).

4] Paul was confident in Christ (2Ti_1:12). Paul was not ashamed! Why? Because he knew that Christ was faithful and would keep him. Note his emphasis on the person of Christ: “I know whom I have believed.” Salvation is not the result of believing certain doctrines, though doctrines are important. A sinner is saved because he believes in a Person — Jesus Christ the Saviour. Paul had deposited his soul in the care and keeping of the Saviour, and Paul was sure that Jesus Christ would faithfully guard that deposit. What difference did it make to Paul what happened on any certain day? What really mattered is what will happen on “that day” when Jesus Christ rewards His servants (see 2Ti_1:18; 2Ti_4:8).

Good . I like reading copied and pasted things. Warren Weirsbe is a good and helpful source. I have heard many of his sermons on the radio. I wish I could have more of his graceful way of presenting truth.I like the majority of what he offers. I think sometimes he goes a liitle bit soft.

 

[Silverhair]

Romans 10:13-15 [NASB95]

13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
​

synergism = unequal opportunity.
Capisci?

What is unequal if each person has the same chance to trust in God. Now under your monergism that is true. If only those that are picked out can come to God then all those not picked really do not have an equal chance do they. So the correct equation would b:

synergism = equal opportunity
monergism = unequal opportunity

 

[atpollard]

What is unequal if each person has the same chance to trust in God.

Person A hears the Gospel 10,000 times over 10 years because they live in Tennessee and can't swing a dead cat without hitting a radio playing a gospel song or a Church building with a preacher reading from the bible.

Person B lives in the mountains of Western China, in a Muslim community where they speak a language that the NT has not been fully translated into yet and have NEVER EVEN MET a Christian.

Explain to me how they have the same chance to trust in God?
If you are correct, then we can stop wasting time and effort spreading the Gospel ... it just doesn't matter (according to you).

Frankly, I do believe that they have exactly the same chance ... because GOD can choose to IRRESISTIBLY DRAW either one and without that Irresistible Draw, all of the preaching in the world will remain "foolishness" to the natural man. However, I am a Calvinistic monergist and you are supposed to be disagreeing with me and thinking that "hearing" and "free will" are what makes the difference. So your claim that both men have the same chance to hear and free-will believe seems like nonsense.

 

[AustinC]

"God saved us; we did not save ourselves" agree
"He called us, not on the basis of our good works, but wholly on the basis of His grace." agree

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Salvation results from two things: grace and faith. So what is the role that each plays? The answer is found in the prepositions “by” and “through.”
Who saves us? God saves us. How, by his grace. So what, then, is the role of faith? The key preposition for faith G4102 is “through," G1223 which refers to the means or instrumentality by which we are saved {because of, for this reason}.
We are saved by God’s grace (grace is the ground and agency of our salvation) through faith, which is the reason we receive the gift of salvation. Our faith is viewed as that way by which God’s gracious gift of salvation is received — because of our faith.
Eph_1:13 We hear the gospel, we believe {verb G4100} the gospel, we place our faith {noun G4102} in Christ Jesus, God saves us.

We are saved by grace.
We are justified by faith.
The faith we receive as a gift of salvation is that which justifies us in our belief.

 

[Silverhair]

What harm is it to the free will of other men if God irresistibly Draws some? How has that harmed those NOT DRAWN? Nobody worth taking seriously has ever suggested that God actively shoves some away from salvation to prevent them from reaching Him. So those that are not IRRESISTIBLY DRAWN have the same chance as they do under Free Will theology ... none according to scripture because they desire to be enemies of God.

The only difference between Reformed Sotieriology and Free Will Sotieriology is that Reformed believes that God tries to save some and succeeds in saving all that He tries to save, while Free Will believes that God tries to save all and fails to save most of those He tried to save. The concept of a God that tries and fails runs contrary to scripture.

“What harm is it to the free will of other men if God irresistibly Draws some?” Do you not see the problem in this comment. We are talking about salvation here and when you look at your TUILP it should quickly point out the problem to you.

Those that God chooses for Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. Your own theology precludes this, but you just do not want to acknowledge that fact.

How does this not impact the free will of those not part of ULI? How has that NOT harmed those NOT DRAWN? You can not claim all have a free will and then exclude most from having a free choice.

What doe s the bible say about the enemies of God:

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
To get the full impact of that verse read Rom 5:1-11 or better yet read from Rom 4:1 through to Rom 5:11

And what can these enemies of God do? Well they can hear the gospel and they can believe the gospel and God will save them. Well that's what the bible say right Eph 1:13 or do you think Paul got it wrong?

The real difference between Reformed Sotieriology and Free Will Sotieriology is that under REFORMED God saves a small group and condemns the rest before time began while under FREE WILL God saves all those that freely trust in His son and the rest are condemned because they rejected Christ Jesus.

You say “God tries to save” well that is wrong, “He actually saves” and He saves those that freely trust in His son. So I agree with your last sentence, the concept of a God that tries and fails runs contrary to scripture.

 

[atpollard]

Those that God chooses for Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. Your own theology precludes this, but you just do not want to acknowledge that fact.

There is a logical flaw in your argument. (Giving to one takes nothing from everyone else). However it has been explained to you several times already. I can tell it to you, but I cannot understand it for you.

So carry on without me.

 

[Silverhair]

Person A hears the Gospel 10,000 times over 10 years because they live in Tennessee and can't swing a dead cat without hitting a radio playing a gospel song or a Church building with a preacher reading from the bible.

Person B lives in the mountains of Western China, in a Muslim community where they speak a language that the NT has not been fully translated into yet and have NEVER EVEN MET a Christian.

Explain to me how they have the same chance to trust in God?
If you are correct, then we can stop wasting time and effort spreading the Gospel ... it just doesn't matter (according to you).

Frankly, I do believe that they have exactly the same chance ... because GOD can choose to IRRESISTIBLY DRAW either one and without that Irresistible Draw, all of the preaching in the world will remain "foolishness" to the natural man. However, I am a Calvinistic monergist and you are supposed to be disagreeing with me and thinking that "hearing" and "free will" are what makes the difference. So your claim that both men have the same chance to hear and free-will believe seems like nonsense.

"Explain to me how they have the same chance to trust in God?"

Explain to me why you want to restrict our sovereign God in doing what He wants in order to reach people. As I said before, have you not heard of creation. When people cry out to God do you think He just ignores them? For a group that trumpets that you believe in the sovereign God you sure do not treat Him like He is the sovereign God.

You have to have God IRRESISTIBLY DRAW as that is the way you view the bible, through your calvinist lens. But I do not have that calvinist restriction that you are under. The God of the bible will reach people through creation, the gospel etc. However they come to know God they still have to make a choice either to accept or reject Him, that is free will.

For the calvinist you love to pat yourselves on the back and say look God IRRESISTIBLY SAVED these people but what you fail to realize or rather just ignore is the fact that that means He IRRESISTIBLY REPROBATES all the rest of humanity.

Only God saves but God only saves those that believe.



Freely trusting in God does not necessitate

 

[AustinC]

"Explain to me how they have the same chance to trust in God?"

Explain to me why you want to restrict our sovereign God in doing what He wants in order to reach people. As I said before, have you not heard of creation. When people cry out to God do you think He just ignores them? For a group that trumpets that you believe in the sovereign God you sure do not treat Him like He is the sovereign God.

You have to have God IRRESISTIBLY DRAW as that is the way you view the bible, through your calvinist lens. But I do not have that calvinist restriction that you are under. The God of the bible will reach people through creation, the gospel etc. However they come to know God they still have to make a choice either to accept or reject Him, that is free will.

For the calvinist you love to pat yourselves on the back and say look God IRRESISTIBLY SAVED these people but what you fail to realize or rather just ignore is the fact that that means He IRRESISTIBLY REPROBATES all the rest of humanity.

Only God saves but God only saves those that believe.



Freely trusting in God does not necessitate

You have a high view of man and a low view of God.

The way you just twisted atpollard's words to state the opposite of what he said is not what the Holy Spirit ever does.

 

[Silverhair]

We are saved by grace.
We are justified by faith.
The faith we receive as a gift of salvation is that which justifies us in our belief.

So you think like Loraine Boettner
"A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved."

You have a warped view of salvation, but that I have pointed out to you a number of times. You want people to be saved before they believe but then again that calvinist theology isn't it.

 

[Silverhair]

There is a logical flaw in your argument. (Giving to one takes nothing from everyone else). However it has been explained to you several times already. I can tell it to you, but I cannot understand it for you.

So carry on without me.

If you fail to see the problem in your theology I can not make you see it. I have explained this to you a number if times but it just goes over your head it would seem.

 

[Silverhair]

You have a high view of man and a low view of God.

The way you just twisted atpollard's words to state the opposite of what he said is not what the Holy Spirit ever does.

Why do you have such a low view of our sovereign God. Calvinism wants to restrict what He can do so that He fits into their theology. How did I twist his words, he has one view I have another. Are people not supposed to point out the errors of your theology to you?

Does the Holy Spirit convict YES, draw YES, enlighten YES, force NO. You want God to "DRAG", your words, people to Himself. That is a strange view of God you have there.

 

[AustinC]

If you fail to see the problem in your theology I can not make you see it. I have explained this to you a number if times but it just goes over your head it would seem.

This is rich. I color coded your contradiction in an earlier post you made and am still waiting for you to recognize how your comments cancel themselves out.
Silverhair, get your house in order first, then get back to others.

 

[AustinC]

Why do you have such a low view of our sovereign God.

I don't. God chooses whom He wills. He is Sovereign, I am not.

Calvinism wants to restrict what He can do so that He fits into their theology.

Not at all. Your claim here shows your ignorance.

How did I twist his words, he has one view I have another.

He gave his view. You twisted it and claimed he said something else. You do this consistently by distorting another person's position.

Are people not supposed to point out the errors of your theology to you?

People can point to scripture and show how I have misinterpreted a passage. You rarely, if ever, do that. You immediately fall on your strawman.

Does the Holy Spirit convict YES, draw YES, enlighten YES, force NO.

What does this have to do with your twisting and distorting what others write?

You want God to "DRAG", your words, people to Himself.

Actually, Jesus words.
The word Jesus uses in John 6:44 is the word helkō, which can mean either “draw / attract” (like a magnet) or “drag.” The word is used eight times in the New Testament. The best example where the word arguably means “draw” rather than “drag” is John 12:32, where Jesus says that when he is crucified, “I will draw all people to myself.”
Otherwise, the New Testament meanings of this word all lean toward “drag.” In John 18:10, the word is used to describe Peter pulling his sword out of its sheath. In John 21:6, the disciples are barely able to “drag” in the net because of the huge catch of fish (see also 21:11). In Acts 16:19, the owners of the fortune-telling slave girl “dragged” Paul and Silas into court. In Acts 21:30, the mob “dragged” Paul out of the Temple, intending to lynch him. And in James 2:6, James argues that it is the rich who “drag” his readers into court. None of these examples can be easily taken to mean persuasion or attraction rather than pulling by force; indeed, the dragging is done against people’s will, wherever people are involved.
Drag Versus Draw: How Does God Bring People to Faith?

That is a strange view of God you have there.

Well, you certainly think it is a strange view, though many others think it is taught by Jesus himself.

 

[Silverhair]

This is rich. I color coded your contradiction in an earlier post you made and am still waiting for you to recognize how your comments cancel themselves out.
Silverhair, get your house in order first, then get back to others.

What do you not understand in what was written? I ca explain to to you if you would like.