Brother Bob
New Member
Why don't you go back and read this entire page. We both made mistakes and admitted it completely without you.
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The Freewillers Shell Game part 1.
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Brother Bob
New Member
Its ok............
Brother Bob
New Member
Ok everyone, I got a long day tomorrow. I know you all think I don't do anything else but I am a preacher first and foremost and I hope the Lord will bless us all tomorrow. Good nite all and It has been tough but turned out just fine so God Bless,
Brother Bob said:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5
The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 . Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA
GordonSlocum
New Member
How convenient - yet another re-definition of normal understanding. There really is no end to the depth of blindness Tuplipitis leads one into. What a shame.
The real problem is that Philosophy, blinds. The effect of philosophical Calvinism or Tuplipitis is that it forces the followers to twist and re-define for the purpose of holding in captivity the carnal mind. Fatalism (Tuplipitis / Calvinism ) is truly a blinding philosophy. It re-defines simple Biblical truth by twist Scripture. A philosophy that from a Sound Biblical understanding dishonors God's Holiness. Tuplipitis puts God in a box, and from there it tries to explain Him based upon humanistic philosophy, with a false pretense that this false doctrine is the ultimate and supreme defense of God's grace, in fact it is just the opposite. God did not invent Calvinism - philosophy did - man's pride did.
This false philosophy "philosophical Calvinism or Tulipitis" can be CURED.
C- Conditional salvation
Luke 15:7. "I tell you that in the same way, there will be {more} joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Acts 17: 30. "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all {people} everywhere should repent,
II Peter 3: 9. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Acts 16: 30. and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31. They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Romans 4:5. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
I Corinthians 1:21. For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not {come to} know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
U- Unlimited Atonement
John 1: 4. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6. There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.
John 3:16. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
John 12:32. "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.";
John 12:47. "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
I Timothy 2: 6. who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony {given} at the proper time.
I Timothy 4:10. For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
Hebrews 2:9. But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, {namely,} Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
II Peter 2:1. But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
I John 2: 2. and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for {those of} the whole world
R- Resistible Grace
Acts 28: 24. Some were being persuaded by the things spoken, but others would not believe.
Acts 17:0. "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all {people} everywhere should repent,
John 5:40. and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
II Peter 3:9. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Luke 7:30. But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
Acts 7:51. "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Matthew 23:37. "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
John 7:17. "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or {whether} I speak from Myself.
E - Eternal Security
John 10:9. "My Father, who has given {them} to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch {them} out of the Father's hand. 30. "I and the Father are one."
John 6:39. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day
John 14:16. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
II Corinthians 1: 22. who also sealed us and gave {us} the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
Ephesians 4:30. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
Philippians 1: 6. {For I am} confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 7:25. Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
I Peter 1: 5. who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
D- Delivered from being Dead in Trespasses and sin
Eph. 2: 1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2. in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5. even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6. and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly {places} in Christ Jesus, 7. so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {salvation is} the gift of God; 9. not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Romans 5: 20. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21. so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with {Him,} in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
Romans 8: 10. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
II Corinthians 5: 19. namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
I Corinthians 15:56. The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
57. but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Galatians 3:22. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe
Ephesians 1: 19. namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
The real problem is that Philosophy, blinds. The effect of philosophical Calvinism or Tuplipitis is that it forces the followers to twist and re-define for the purpose of holding in captivity the carnal mind. Fatalism (Tuplipitis / Calvinism ) is truly a blinding philosophy. It re-defines simple Biblical truth by twist Scripture. A philosophy that from a Sound Biblical understanding dishonors God's Holiness. Tuplipitis puts God in a box, and from there it tries to explain Him based upon humanistic philosophy, with a false pretense that this false doctrine is the ultimate and supreme defense of God's grace, in fact it is just the opposite. God did not invent Calvinism - philosophy did - man's pride did.
This false philosophy "philosophical Calvinism or Tulipitis" can be CURED.
C- Conditional salvation
Luke 15:7. "I tell you that in the same way, there will be {more} joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Acts 17: 30. "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all {people} everywhere should repent,
II Peter 3: 9. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Acts 16: 30. and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31. They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Romans 4:5. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
I Corinthians 1:21. For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not {come to} know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
U- Unlimited Atonement
John 1: 4. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6. There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.
John 3:16. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
John 12:32. "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.";
John 12:47. "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
I Timothy 2: 6. who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony {given} at the proper time.
I Timothy 4:10. For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
Hebrews 2:9. But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, {namely,} Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
II Peter 2:1. But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
I John 2: 2. and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for {those of} the whole world
R- Resistible Grace
Acts 28: 24. Some were being persuaded by the things spoken, but others would not believe.
Acts 17:0. "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all {people} everywhere should repent,
John 5:40. and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
II Peter 3:9. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Luke 7:30. But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
Acts 7:51. "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Matthew 23:37. "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
John 7:17. "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or {whether} I speak from Myself.
E - Eternal Security
John 10:9. "My Father, who has given {them} to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch {them} out of the Father's hand. 30. "I and the Father are one."
John 6:39. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day
John 14:16. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
II Corinthians 1: 22. who also sealed us and gave {us} the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
Ephesians 4:30. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
Philippians 1: 6. {For I am} confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 7:25. Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
I Peter 1: 5. who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
D- Delivered from being Dead in Trespasses and sin
Eph. 2: 1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2. in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5. even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6. and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly {places} in Christ Jesus, 7. so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {salvation is} the gift of God; 9. not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Romans 5: 20. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21. so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with {Him,} in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
Romans 8: 10. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
II Corinthians 5: 19. namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
I Corinthians 15:56. The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
57. but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Galatians 3:22. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe
Ephesians 1: 19. namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
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Brother Bob
New Member
Thanks Pete............His works were finished on the 6 day after man was created and He rested on the 7th right? Still kinda makes you wonder though. His works were finished from the foundation of the world (after the creation of man).
I find where He knew John "before" the foundation of the world.
Jhn 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
But Jesus stood slain "from" the foundation of the world after man was created.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Just some thoughts I have had over the years. doesn't change anything Pete but was wondering if anyone else had thought on it?
I find where He knew John "before" the foundation of the world.
Jhn 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
But Jesus stood slain "from" the foundation of the world after man was created.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Just some thoughts I have had over the years. doesn't change anything Pete but was wondering if anyone else had thought on it?
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Jarthur001
Active Member
It is my guess that freewillers believe with OP. I have posted this many times, and noone disagrees.
Therefore the "foreknowing" cry is nothing but a shell game as stated.
Last day for this, if there be no reply we will go to shell game #2.
Therefore the "foreknowing" cry is nothing but a shell game as stated.
Last day for this, if there be no reply we will go to shell game #2.
Jarthur001
Active Member
Hello Gordon,
I'll go as long as I can...before church starts.
You have posted this ((CURED)) a few times...little has been said about it. Lets take a look as to why.
PLEASE!!! Look..a Change happens after salvation. One does not need to stop sinning 1st. Please do not twist Gods Word.
U- Unlimited Atonement
We shall see...
1st...check out the word MIGHT. God say he loves the world here. To be short...I say I love basketball(world)....but I dislike some teams...and love my team. Understand?
Jhn 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Jhn 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
No wait...that is not what that means. Does it mean...Christ is the only way to come to God...for only He saves and this applies to ALL men of the world?
Church time...I'll address you other little letters later. Say that 5 times fast.
In Christ...James
I'll go as long as I can...before church starts.
You have posted this ((CURED)) a few times...little has been said about it. Lets take a look as to why.
The Tuplipitis you keep using must be a made up thing. I never heard of it used before, of course me not hearing means little. But I notice that no non-Calvinist has jumped on your bandwagon, which tells me a lot. We all seem to pat the poster from our side on the back alot. Just part of the debate I guess. Maybe others from the freewill side has seen nothing new just as I. The name...Tuplipitis...that is cute. You think of this yourself?
If this is such a major problem with Calvinism, why are you speaking in philosophical ways, and not just post the problems found in the doctrine
It would have been nice if you had back this philosophy of the blinding philosophy up with the verses that are twisted. I have yet to see this...just more philosophy from you.
You have just shown, you have not a clue of the Bible, nor what you are talking about.
The CURED thing must be a home-made job too. Cute name....lets see if it holds up.
For by grace you are saved..and nothing...NOTHING....NOTHING...NOTHING else. Please do not twist Gods word.
OK...and this is conditional in what way? Repent?
PLEASE!!! Look..a Change happens after salvation. One does not need to stop sinning 1st. Please do not twist Gods Word.
I see now. It is repent...right? Repenting happens AT salvation showing real faith, and is not needed a week before as a conditional for salvation. This is silly.
1st...this verse is used out of context. 2nd...you should know by now the error you place in the word repent.
SEE!! What did I tell you?? I'm not talking "easly believe", for one must repent. But one can only change and really change when they have the power of Holy Spirit in them, not as a conditional for salvation.
You have seemed to change from "repent" to "believe". Maybe you do not know this, but all Calvinist say one must have faith.
Humm this should be good. Addressing the verse above...How can they hear?
U- Unlimited Atonement
We shall see...
??? And this proves Unlimited Atonement how? Do you know what atonement means? It means the blood of Christ makes men right before God. It cleans...wipes/ the sin away. If God washes the sins away for the whole world, then noone has sinned..and ALL is right before God. So...is the atonement for all? If so...all are or their way to heaven, for sins places us in hell
Man this is to easy. You post the verses...i'll point out what they mean. We can work as a team.
1st...check out the word MIGHT. God say he loves the world here. To be short...I say I love basketball(world)....but I dislike some teams...and love my team. Understand?
Ol great...all men are saved. Ooops maybe you should read down a few more verses.
Jhn 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Maybe you should read above a few veses.
Jhn 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
ol great..then we are all paid for. Who owns us now? Who is the all that Christ owns?
Yes...Christ saved all of us. He has saved each man in the world.
No wait...that is not what that means. Does it mean...Christ is the only way to come to God...for only He saves and this applies to ALL men of the world?
Why stop at this verse? The 1st part of this chapter tells of MAN being made lower then the angels. Verse 9 begins with subject of Christ and the reason for His coming. Near the end of the chapter we see the subject to be the same...That being the death of Christ. Notice as you read the chapter what was meant by.."tasted death for everyone". Its always best to read things in context.
Deny Christ? Yes..sometimes this is done. Peter did this 3 times. Will Peter be in heaven? In this case above those that this were dealt with. God only chasens those He loves. right?
Propitiation means the sins are paid for. Just as in the garden, the "covering" of the sin was not based on the person, but based upon what God did. Just as in Lev, the blood was for the sins of the Whole nation. So does this mean Christ paid for all the sins of each person in the world, so they are now right before God, or does it mean that each believer from all over the world had his sins paid for and they will be saved?
Church time...I'll address you other little letters later. Say that 5 times fast.
In Christ...James
Brother Bob
New Member
Well, I guess if you lose the debate you can still claim victory for its all in your own mind. When the mind is closed then no one is allowed in. :sleep:
Jarthur001 said:
Yep, saved by grace THROUGH FAITH
Believe and then you are saved by grace. (Not saved by grace and then given the ability to believe) Belief precedes salvation everytime in scripture.
BTW, I would give Gordon a pat on the back, but he is trying to help you understand some things. He is not looking for my approval. :smilewinkgrin:
GordonSlocum
New Member
Brother Bob said:
So it is with the sickness know as Tulipitis.
The person infected with Tulipitis has a serious ailment. However, it can be CURED. See my post above.
I have heard it told that those infected with Tulipitis that it damages the brain so bad that they even see their kids in hell because some how or the other they were predetermined to go there. Poor Mon and Dad who teach such a God dishonoring hateful man made philosophy.
I am so Glad My God is not like that. He is not willing that anyone perished and that everyone come to repentance.
Now the odds are this. Take all the Fatalistic infected Philosophical Calvinist with Tulipitis and put them in one room.
Now what part of the whole of these fatalist are elect? God reaches down and thumps one on the head and says son I chose your mom and I am sending your dad to hell. I am sending you to hell too but will save your sister.
For God so loved the whole world that whosoever. Jesus came to save.
The god of Tulipitis is not my God and I serve the God of the Bible that is how it is and how I see it.
:godisgood:
Amen Brother Bob
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Correct me if I am wrong in my take of what you just said, but are you saying that the Tulipitis as you call us, are not serving God? If so, do you believe we are not saved? And also, give me a definition of what you think repentance is. I know Bob identified with you as did Blammo, but if I have not seen either one of them say we are serving a god & they are serving God. It appears to me that you do not accept that we are as saved as you. Is this right?GordonSlocum said:
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Brother Bob
New Member
Amen Gordon..........:jesus:
Brother Bob
New Member
No, jne;
I wouldn't say that you were not saved for my life. I disagree with you on the scripture and have had some hot debates with you and James but I will never say that you are not God's Children. It is only by God's Grace through faith that any of us will make it. I look in the mirror when I get too self righteous.
I wouldn't say that you were not saved for my life. I disagree with you on the scripture and have had some hot debates with you and James but I will never say that you are not God's Children. It is only by God's Grace through faith that any of us will make it. I look in the mirror when I get too self righteous.
Blammo said:
As far as I know, you're right. But belief isn't the first thing in the list. For example:
In this case, appointment to eternal life precedes belief.
Now check out this order:
Foreknew->predestined->called->justified->glorified.
Belief isn't mentioned, but where would it go? Can you believe before you are called? Before you are predestined, or foreknown?
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