The Future of Small Rural Churches

[jonthebaptist]

I would not worry about any judgements made. As someone once said, if you find a perfect church, dont join it because it wont be perfect anymore.

 

[freeatlast]

I would not worry about any judgements made. As someone once said, if you find a perfect church, dont join it because it wont be perfect anymore.

There is no doubt this is exactly the attitude of most today who claim to be Christian. They actually seek churches that are so off track that they love the sin of the church because it agrees with their lifestyle. They seek to have their ears tickled. They do not want to hear about sin and especially theirs. They do not want to be held accountable for their sin, and worst of all they do not want Jesus as Lord because if they did they would be seeking a church that obeys His word. Finding a church that is obedient to the Lord of the church is not perfect, but it is His church.

 

[freeatlast]

Are we to deduce from this that your church is one of the few "holy" churches. Are you guys the 1 in 1000?

How do YOU define holiness?

You cerainly must have not read my posts. I am saying that in this area there is not a single church that meets the Lord's callings and it includes where I attend. :tear:

 

[Luke2427]

You cerainly must have not read my posts. I am saying that in this area there is not a single church that meets the Lord's callings and it includes where I attend. :tear:

No, I did not. I read the post to which I responded which is generally what is done on these things.

I am glad to hear you are not one of these who pounds his chest about how FEW people he has as if that is a sign of how holy his people are and how much in the will of God they are.

I am still curious about your definition of holiness since you sweepingly declared that 99.9% percent of churches on earth do not meet these your stringent standards of holiness.

 

[freeatlast]

No, I did not. I read the post to which I responded which is generally what is done on these things.

I am glad to hear you are not one of these who pounds his chest about how FEW people he has as if that is a sign of how holy his people are and how much in the will of God they are.

I am still curious about your definition of holiness since you sweepingly declared that 99.9% percent of churches on earth do not meet these your stringent standards of holiness.

I have no standards except that which the Lord has given. Holiness is complete surrender to His standards.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Let's keep to the point of the thread.

Start a new one on "standards" or "holiness" (falsely so-called, keeping to the traditions of modern pharisees) and I will join in!!

 

[blackbird]

The thread subject is the future of small rural churches----to which many who have posted can't see ANY future

to which I will add

The small rural church has just about as much of a future as some rather large surburban and urban churches of the past I am familiar with

I can name you a dozen large suburban churches that WERE rather healthy in the PAST---but whos doors are now locked up tighter than Fort Knox----in the Baton Rouge area

A good majority of the small rural churches will still "click'" along long after many large(and even mega) churches surrender their property to their association or state conventions and hand the door keys over to the convention presidents!!!

 

[Bob Alkire]

What a fantastic topic!
I pastor a church in a town, literally, that has NO red light.
But there are needs here. I ask God to burden me with those needs and enable me to burden the people with them.

That souls be rescued from eternal judgment is another.

I believe the small church and the small rural church is here to stay, it is safe.

Some of the greatest works of God that I've seen came out of small churches. God put me in, a places similar to your town that you described above.

One in a town of about 1200 people, when I went to the church is was averaging about 20 folks, when I left in three years the average was about 125 folks and we had started another church out in the country about 6 miles away and their average was about 75. That isn't the story, out of that church has come three men call to preach His Word and two missionaries. When one sees God's hand at work like that, you thank God for putting you in places like that.

So if one is counting numbers, how big is that small church in a small town? The pastors God called to that church over the years must have followed the Holy Spirit lead, because the families did a great job with their children. A lot like John and Charles Wesley mother a shame that the only people she had been used to plant the seeds of Salvation was here children, her children was used to plant a lot of seeds. We could even talk about D.L. Moody's Sunday school teacher. Much to the glory of God comes out of so called small workers.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Here is a GREAT book on the subject

http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Small-Church-Diagnosis-Treatment/dp/0834122405

 

[glfredrick]

Not so sure that the Bible instructs all of us to do these things. Can you give me a scripture?

Are you asking me to "proof text" the work of a local church?

How about this:

Act 2:38-47 (KJV) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Act 4:1-4 (KJV) And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, 2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead. 3 And they laid hands on them, and put [them] in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide. 4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

Act 4:19-21 (KJV) But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. 20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard. 21 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all [men] glorified God for that which was done.

 

[dh1948]

What can I say except, "thank you! thank you! thank you!" I have received some excellent response, and my insight into the mentality of the small rural church.

I am not sure in what direction the Lord will lead me. I am open to the possibility of a bi-vocational pastorate in a small church. It will take a lot of changing on my part, but if the Lord wills, I am available. In the meantime I will continue to welcome opportunities to preach anywhere, anytime.

Thanks again to all of you who responded with such wisdom! Blessings!

 

[glfredrick]

Hello glfredrick. I have no doubt that YOU believe that your church is spiritual. Just about anyone will make that claim, but the truth is that they have been put to sleep about real holiness. I mean you no ill from what I am saying but I can tell you that your church is not spiritual by what you described. It is modern, It is contemporary, but not spiritual. Yes you may pray a lot, visit and witness and even fast, but without holiness no one will see the Lord. If I were a betting person I would bet that your church does not obey scripture. By the way I am not suggesting that there is no church that is in obedience, but they are few and far between. I seriously doubt that 1 out of 1000 is in obedience. And like I mentioned a church that grows in numbers does not make it of God even in the mist of many so called spiritual claims. I am reminded of what the Lord said in Matt.
[SIZE=-1]21 [/SIZE]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. [SIZE=-1]22 [/SIZE]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? [SIZE=-1]23 [/SIZE]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Thanks for your concern, but you REALLY do not know much about our church. In fact, you have just about totally missed what it is that we do concerning the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Others have asked you to define holiness -- I see that term as meaning "set apart for God's use" in short form, and that could be filled in some with a longer, more theological explanation of each of the words used in that description, but that will suffice for now.

The reason I posted what I did is because we are indeed following the Scriptures very closely -- about as closely as a church in the 21st century can, including church discipline for members who, under covenant, fail to live up to the requirements that they agreed upon for membership. The other reason I posted what I did is because this church is now just nearing its 10th anniversary. It started with a mere handful of people in an upper room in an artsy part of town, surrounded by perhaps the most pagan expression of culture in the entire city of Louisville. Virtually NNE expected that God could raise up a church in that atmosphere, where weirdness is THE most prized commodity. Yet, by following the dictates of Scripture theologically, while not worrying so much about local "flavor" or "culture" we have indeed grown a gospel-centered church from out of nothing. We are at work transforming the community in which we live.

You mentioned "spiritual." I'm still looking for the place in the Word where God called us to be "spiritual" people or to have "spiritual" churches. We are to be faithful, obedient, God-honoring and worshiping, relationship building--love one another and love God--sort of churches, but where does "spiritual" come into the mix? Especially if that means that the church simply becomes an enclave akin to a stone room in a monastery? THAT is IMHO one of the biggest issues with small churches and why they remain small. God told us to GUT and we STAY IN to remain something akin to "holy" which is often ill-defined to mean something that God never meant it to be.

 

[freeatlast]

Thanks for your concern, but you REALLY do not know much about our church. In fact, you have just about totally missed what it is that we do concerning the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Others have asked you to define holiness -- I see that term as meaning "set apart for God's use" in short form, and that could be filled in some with a longer, more theological explanation of each of the words used in that description, but that will suffice for now.

The reason I posted what I did is because we are indeed following the Scriptures very closely -- about as closely as a church in the 21st century can, including church discipline for members who, under covenant, fail to live up to the requirements that they agreed upon for membership. The other reason I posted what I did is because this church is now just nearing its 10th anniversary. It started with a mere handful of people in an upper room in an artsy part of town, surrounded by perhaps the most pagan expression of culture in the entire city of Louisville. Virtually NNE expected that God could raise up a church in that atmosphere, where weirdness is THE most prized commodity. Yet, by following the dictates of Scripture theologically, while not worrying so much about local "flavor" or "culture" we have indeed grown a gospel-centered church from out of nothing. We are at work transforming the community in which we live.

You mentioned "spiritual." I'm still looking for the place in the Word where God called us to be "spiritual" people or to have "spiritual" churches. We are to be faithful, obedient, God-honoring and worshiping, relationship building--love one another and love God--sort of churches, but where does "spiritual" come into the mix? Especially if that means that the church simply becomes an enclave akin to a stone room in a monastery? THAT is IMHO one of the biggest issues with small churches and why they remain small. God told us to GUT and we STAY IN to remain something akin to "holy" which is often ill-defined to mean something that God never meant it to be.

I am not sure exactly what translation you use but the scripture is clear on the term spiritual. I suggest that you look into a concordance for the word since it does call us to it and we will be IF we are saved. There is no question that small churches will remain as well as large ones. However large or small does not constitute spiritual evidence. The problem is not that the church on earth is going by the wayside but that the church of God is declining at a great pace do to a lack of spirituality. (True seeking of God) not the God I want but the One of the bible.

 

[PastorGreg]

This thread has gone a lot of directions, but as to the OP and the first few replies...
My ministry has been spent, for the most part, in small rural churches. The first thoughts that come to mind are these:
- Small, rural churches are here to stay. Just the way it is.
- Small, rural pastoring requires great patience (as has been described
dealing with the old decorations, paintings, etc.)
- Earning the "right" to make changes comes by love. I think a mistake is often made in focusing on changing the people. If God has called a pastor to a particular work, it is his responsibilty to love them. This breaks down huge barriers and engenders trust. THis might mean milking cows, cutting hay, gutting deer, pulling weeds, listening to old stories multiple times, etc. Key #2 is Preach the Word. If they are saved, God will change them.
- I think it's also important to learn and appreciate the history of the church that they are hanging on to. It's not the hideous picture that they love, but Aunt Hazel who painted it. Learn about Aunt Hazel and express appreciation for her and the others in the church's history.
- No young people? REACH THEM. Maybe the most effective way to have influence is to win and disciple people who are new to the church - you are their pastor and gradually they will outnumber any that are truly stiff-necked and not just defensive of their history.

A pastor who comes into a small, rural work that has a history and stubborn people stuck in their traditions has no hope of success if he announces or demonstrates that he is there to change everything. They view it as THEIR church. Their grandparents were a part of it, and you are an outsider. A little respect for their traditions and history goes a long way.

 

[Tom Bryant]

This thread has gone a lot of directions, but as to the OP and the first few replies...
My ministry has been spent, for the most part, in small rural churches. The first thoughts that come to mind are these:
- Small, rural churches are here to stay. Just the way it is.
- Small, rural pastoring requires great patience (as has been described
dealing with the old decorations, paintings, etc.)
- Earning the "right" to make changes comes by love. I think a mistake is often made in focusing on changing the people. If God has called a pastor to a particular work, it is his responsibilty to love them. This breaks down huge barriers and engenders trust. THis might mean milking cows, cutting hay, gutting deer, pulling weeds, listening to old stories multiple times, etc. Key #2 is Preach the Word. If they are saved, God will change them.
- I think it's also important to learn and appreciate the history of the church that they are hanging on to. It's not the hideous picture that they love, but Aunt Hazel who painted it. Learn about Aunt Hazel and express appreciation for her and the others in the church's history.
- No young people? REACH THEM. Maybe the most effective way to have influence is to win and disciple people who are new to the church - you are their pastor and gradually they will outnumber any that are truly stiff-necked and not just defensive of their history.

A pastor who comes into a small, rural work that has a history and stubborn people stuck in their traditions has no hope of success if he announces or demonstrates that he is there to change everything. They view it as THEIR church. Their grandparents were a part of it, and you are an outsider. A little respect for their traditions and history goes a long way.

This is good stuff.

I've been in a small community church that in the last few years been overtaken by a larger city. But for the 1st 6 years (going on 13 now), I concentrated on loving the families of the people who established the church 100 years previous. Then in the last 6 years, we have changed some things that needed changing but I've always approached it from the view that the church was founded by people who wanted to reach this community with the story of Jesus and provide funds so that the Gospel could be sent throughout the world. This resonated with the founders chidren and grandchildren. But if they hadn't been loved on for years, they never would have heard the message.

 

[abcgrad94]

This thread has gone a lot of directions, but as to the OP and the first few replies...
My ministry has been spent, for the most part, in small rural churches. The first thoughts that come to mind are these:
- Small, rural churches are here to stay. Just the way it is.
- Small, rural pastoring requires great patience (as has been described
dealing with the old decorations, paintings, etc.)
- Earning the "right" to make changes comes by love. I think a mistake is often made in focusing on changing the people. If God has called a pastor to a particular work, it is his responsibilty to love them. This breaks down huge barriers and engenders trust. THis might mean milking cows, cutting hay, gutting deer, pulling weeds, listening to old stories multiple times, etc. Key #2 is Preach the Word. If they are saved, God will change them.
- I think it's also important to learn and appreciate the history of the church that they are hanging on to. It's not the hideous picture that they love, but Aunt Hazel who painted it. Learn about Aunt Hazel and express appreciation for her and the others in the church's history.
- No young people? REACH THEM. Maybe the most effective way to have influence is to win and disciple people who are new to the church - you are their pastor and gradually they will outnumber any that are truly stiff-necked and not just defensive of their history.

A pastor who comes into a small, rural work that has a history and stubborn people stuck in their traditions has no hope of success if he announces or demonstrates that he is there to change everything. They view it as THEIR church. Their grandparents were a part of it, and you are an outsider. A little respect for their traditions and history goes a long way.

Excellent post!:applause:I would only add one thing, which you and Tom Bryant didn't exactly say but implied, and that is LONGEVITY. The longer you stay, the more they will learn to trust. Also, the longer you stay, the better chances you will outlive the stiff necked older ones who control everything.

 

[glfredrick]

Excellent post!:applause:I would only add one thing, which you and Tom Bryant didn't exactly say but implied, and that is LONGEVITY. The longer you stay, the more they will learn to trust. Also, the longer you stay, the better chances you will outlive the stiff necked older ones who control everything.

Amen! :thumbs:

 

[dh1948]

Again, I want to say thanks! You men and ladies have so much wisdom about this matter. I am glad I sought input from you.

I have learned much by reading your comments. You see, you can each an old dog new tricks!!

 

[thegospelgeek]

This thread has gone a lot of directions, but as to the OP and the first few replies...
My ministry has been spent, for the most part, in small rural churches. The first thoughts that come to mind are these:
- Small, rural churches are here to stay. Just the way it is.
- Small, rural pastoring requires great patience (as has been described
dealing with the old decorations, paintings, etc.)
- Earning the "right" to make changes comes by love. I think a mistake is often made in focusing on changing the people. If God has called a pastor to a particular work, it is his responsibilty to love them. This breaks down huge barriers and engenders trust. THis might mean milking cows, cutting hay, gutting deer, pulling weeds, listening to old stories multiple times, etc. Key #2 is Preach the Word. If they are saved, God will change them.
- I think it's also important to learn and appreciate the history of the church that they are hanging on to. It's not the hideous picture that they love, but Aunt Hazel who painted it. Learn about Aunt Hazel and express appreciation for her and the others in the church's history.
- No young people? REACH THEM. Maybe the most effective way to have influence is to win and disciple people who are new to the church - you are their pastor and gradually they will outnumber any that are truly stiff-necked and not just defensive of their history.

A pastor who comes into a small, rural work that has a history and stubborn people stuck in their traditions has no hope of success if he announces or demonstrates that he is there to change everything. They view it as THEIR church. Their grandparents were a part of it, and you are an outsider. A little respect for their traditions and history goes a long way.

Good advise

 

[thegospelgeek]

Are you asking me to "proof text" the work of a local church?

How about this:

Act 2:38-47 (KJV) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Act 4:1-4 (KJV) And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, 2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead. 3 And they laid hands on them, and put [them] in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide. 4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

Act 4:19-21 (KJV) But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. 20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard. 21 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all [men] glorified God for that which was done.

Not what I was asking. What i was looking for is where does the Bible instruct us to set a specific task for members as you describe. Where do i get the authority to tell our church members how much they will give? Where does scripture have me set each member in a ministry? Isn't that the job of the Holy Spirit. For the Pastor/deacons/elders to set such guidelines falls under the doctrine of the nicolaitians. Read Rev 2