The Gift Ministries

[jeremiah1five]

If you are referring to me, I'll take that as a compliment.
Which (Jon's inquiry) is interesting - Wondering - what was the test?

Apostle - by succession or ordained of Christ from heaven?

Are there other choices/alternatives?

I should have been clearer. It was for Yeshua1.

Apostolic Succession as it is called is unbiblical. God does not replace, He adds.

He subtracts, He multiplies, and He divides.

But never replaces apostles.

He adds.

Acts 2:47 (KJV)
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

[HankD]

There is a distinction there--"Apostles of the Lamb"

There are many other Apostles in the Scriptures.

Jude was an apostle (Jesus' Brother), Matthias, Paul, Adronicus and Junia (Romans 16:7), Titus, Timothy, Silas, Barnabas, etc. You can call them missionaries, But i will call them Apostles.

OK.

 

[JonShaff]

I have one question as we get a myriad of individuals on here... Your avatar on here has you as jeremiah1five... Which states...

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

I'm of curious sort do you consider yourself one?... Brother Glen

The better question is, will you recognize him as one

 

[HankD]

I should have been clearer. It was for Yeshua1.

Apostolic Succession as it is called is unbiblical. God does not replace, He adds.

He subtracts, He multiplies, and He divides.

But never replaces apostles.

He adds.

Acts 2:47 (KJV)
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Doesn't say "apostles" but "such as should be saved".

 

[Revmitchell]

Or, as it is commonly known...the Five-Fold Ministry: Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, and Teacher.

Ephesians 4:11 (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

These gift ministries express in and to the Church the Life of Christ in His people:

Apostle:
Hebrews 3:1 (KJV)
1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Prophet:
John 4:19 (KJV)
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

Evangelist:
Matthew 4:17 (KJV)
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Pastor:
John 10:14 (KJV)
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Teacher:
John 3:2 (KJV)
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

The Body of Christ.
Paul described the body of believers this way:

The person who is apostle is not the apostle, Christ in the person is Apostle.
The person who is prophet is not the prophet, but Christ in the person is the Prophet.
The person who is evangelist is not the evangelist, Christ in the person is the Evangelist.
The person who is pastor is not the pastor, but Christ in the person is the Pastor/Shepherd.
The person who is teacher is not the teacher, Christ in the person is the Teacher.

These five ministries are the expressed life of Christ in His people. To say there is no more apostles - especially the apostles (thumb) is denying the Life of Christ in His people. The thumb is important for one cannot grasp a stick and other needed functions the thumb can do that the others cannot do.

To deny any of these expressed manifestations of the Life of Christ in His people is to deny Christ:

1 John 2:22-24 (KJV)
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

To deny the Life of Christ in the Church in these ministries which are Christ is to be ….. well, you know.

This post is full of the misuse of scripture, it fails to provide proof of the statements given it only assumes they are true. So what I am denying is your understanding of scripture.

 

[tyndale1946]

The better question is, will you recognize him as one

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

I recognize NO MAN now as a prophet!... Brother Glen

 

[jeremiah1five]

I have one question as we get a myriad of individuals on here... Your avatar on here has you as jeremiah1five... Which states...

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

I'm of curious sort do you consider yourself one?... Brother Glen

Numbers 11:29 (KJV)
29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

Jeremiah (lower-case "j") is my spiritual name given me of God.

I am a curious sort also. Why do you ask and what understanding do you have of the prophet in the Church since Pentecost?

 

[HankD]

HankD, moving on...
My statements weren't 'condemning,' they were declarative. But that's the nature of my call. I can't and won't change it because I have my Lord exactly where He wants me. So, let's be honest. You took it as condemning because your conscience was piqued. Just as you say, you're a traditionalist and you reject the apostle in the Church and if my declarations are correct then your understanding of the Life of Christ in His people needs to be adjusted. You need to give up tradition. But I am not the Holy Spirit. If my statements are true then the Spirit of Truth will apply them to those He chooses to have this in their belief-system. I plant and I water. God gives the increase. But it may not be for you. It may just be for someone else (plural). You weren't even named. You revealed yourself. Let's be frank. God blinds eyes and He opens eyes. God darkens the understanding and in others He opens the mind. That's just what He does.

No nomenclature. Just straight-up Biblical truth. I've demonstrated through Scripture that Christ holds office of all five of these ministries. They are HIS LIFE, not mine, not yours, not Paul's not Judas', not Peter's.
Christ.

Does the Scripture say at the death of John there are no more apostles? Does it even imply it? No, it doesn't. So where does that cessation teaching come from? And if it's not Bible then why believe it? Why even teach it?

Ephaphroditus was apostle. I consider him an apostle's apostle for he ministered to Paul in his great need.

Then there is Andronicus and Junias. Apostles. Maybe John wasn't the last to die given the number of apostles in the Church in the first century.

If no apostle, no hand. Simple as that. God has no handicaps. He has a fully functional hand. Those that are called apostle in this day know who they are in Christ regardless of traditional holdings. The Roman CC also depend on tradition. The Pharisees and Sadducees were holders of tradition, and what did Christ declare to them?

The doctrine of the Trinity is a doctrine of tradition - it took about 300 years to develop.

"Apostle" is one of those transliteration words apostolon which many times the KJV translators presented as "apostle" or sometimes "messenger" or one "sent" therefore the Greek text and context along with the other scriptures must be examined.

In the final analysis the Lamb of God has only 12 Apostles though many are they who are "sent".

In eternity:
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Doesn't say "apostles" but "such as should be saved".

I'm not saying apostle.
I'm saying God does not replace in His Body, He adds.

Judas will forever be known as apostle of the Lamb. He was an apostle and Christ says he is. His name will be in one of the twelve foundations of the wall of the Great City.

Revelation 21:14 (KJV)
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

[HankD]

I'm not saying apostle.
I'm saying God does not replace in His Body, He adds.

Judas will forever be known as apostle of the Lamb. He was an apostle and Christ says he is. His name will be in one of the twelve foundations of the wall of the Great City.

Revelation 21:14 (KJV)
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

That remains to be seen.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The doctrine of the Trinity is a doctrine of tradition - it took about 300 years to develop.

"Apostle" is one of those transliteration words apostolon which many times the KJV translators presented as "apostle" or sometimes "messenger" or one "sent" therefore the Greek text and context along with the other scriptures must be examined.

In the final analysis the Lamb of God has only 12 Apostles though many are they who are "sent".

In eternity:
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

It may have taken 300 years to develop but it has always been in Scripture.

I agree. There are only 12 apostles of the Lamb.

And their names will be on the foundation of the wall of the Great City.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That remains to be seen.

Man says "show me and I will believe!"

God says "believe and you will see!"

 

[JonShaff]

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

I recognize NO MAN now as a prophet!... Brother Glen

say what? 1 Corinthians 14:29-31

 

[HankD]

It may have taken 300 years to develop but it has always been in Scripture.

Yet it is tradition and there is an acceptable tradition:

Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

The tradition of Jesus Christ, the prophets and the apostles - the completed revelation of God.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 2
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

 

[HankD]

Man says "show me and I will believe!"

God says "believe and you will see!"

I believe but see it differently.

 

[JonShaff]

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

I recognize NO MAN now as a prophet!... Brother Glen

say what? 1 Corinthians 14:29-31

I find it interesting that Barnabas was a prophet and teacher (Acts 13:1) and His name means "Son of Comfort/Consolation/encouragement"--1 Corinthians 14:31

 

[JonShaff]

Numbers 11:29 (KJV)
29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

Yes, an interesting statement here by Moses.

 

[JonShaff]

Unfortunately, there is a stigma concerning "Apostles and Prophets." However, just because there are counterfeits running around, does not mean there are not true ones. Does the reality of counterfeit money stop you from using real money? You may be more cautious, particularly if you are a business owner or on the receiving side, but that should not prevent the usage of real money.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yet it is tradition and there is an acceptable tradition:

Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

The tradition of Jesus Christ, the prophets and the apostles - the completed revelation of God.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 2
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

That's your prerogative, HankD, but the tradition Jesus blasted was that of the religious leaders who only knew the letter of the law, and the tradition that Paul speaks of is what he taught them which was spirit of the law and consistent with Biblical Christianity. You are confusing the two. But as I said that is your prerogative to hold to the traditions of men because what this thread has revealed using the Scripture, the tradition you hold to is erroneous because it is man's tradition, not God's/Bible.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I believe but see it differently.

You believe error, and there is nothing I can say - nor is there anything the Scripture can say that clearly reveals that denying the apostle is denying the life of Christ in is people.
It is plain. It is simple.