The Glorious "Gospel of Election"

[canadyjd]

Titus 2......1Cr 13:2 ...1 John 2:2

You didn't answer my question, Bob. I'll try again.

If God is responding to something man is doing/going to do, in the granting of Grace, and others do not recieve "grace" because they did not do the thing the first group did, then that cannot rightly be called "unmerited favor".

Can you explain how such a thing can be called "unmerited favor"?

They "merit" God's grace based on what they did. And, therefore, "grace" cannot rightly be called "grace" (unmerited favor). We must find a new definition for grace. Perhaps "merited mercy" would be more appropriate?

Can you answer the question, directly, please?

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

canadyjd;
May I ask you a question.
Why were the commandments given?

Galatians 3:22 "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."

Were not the "elect" already pre-programmed to keep all the Commandments, at a certain time?

No, I don't think that is what scripture says.

peace to youraying:

 

[Jarthur001]

Well, I need you to answer me a question first.

Good deal....

Can the "elect" be lost and go to hell, if not why?

The elect as in "the elect to salvation" does not go to Hell. They are saved from Gods wrath of sin.

Do the "elect" live a Christian life. Who is their leader God or Satan?

Wait..this is two. No big deal....

God is our Father (the elect to salvation) and we follow Him and His Son, and Satan is the god of this world (the non-believer) and they follow after his way.

Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Seem Jesus thought that those who are saved do the above. I suspect, you believe the elect are saved.

Have you bore false witness either on purpose or in innocent yet ignorant of the facts?

Your words James:

Election is the fact of God chosing/electing to Himself a people whereby we as a people had no say in the matter as to the method (faith) and the means (gospel) of salvation. Therefore man contributed nothing to his election nor did God seek mans input. He determined salvation was to be through faith that it might be by grace and all those of faith (future) were known to Him (at that time). And that it was done from the foundation of the world for His own purpose, plan, and good pleasure.

Not my words Bob. That is the words of an old Baptist creed.

ADDED LATER>>>> BTW..do you agree with this creed?

so on to this.....

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
canadyjd;
May I ask you a question.
Why were the commandments given?

Were not the "elect" already pre-programmed to keep all the Commandments, at a certain time?

BBob,

WHAT? Not sure what you are talking about. I know this is to someone else, but I need to ask something.

Please give me a verse that shows people are pre-programmed for anything.

Please show me a verse that shows people are pre-programmed for anything.

 

[PK]

You didn't answer my question, Bob. I'll try again.

If God is responding to something man is doing/going to do, in the granting of Grace, and others do not recieve "grace" because they did not do the thing the first group did, then that cannot rightly be called "unmerited favor".

Can you explain how such a thing can be called "unmerited favor"?

They "merit" God's grace based on what they did. And, therefore, "grace" cannot rightly be called "grace" (unmerited favor). We must find a new definition for grace. Perhaps "merited mercy" would be more appropriate?

Can you answer the question, directly, please?

peace to youraying:

What did Adam and Eve do to deserve Grace?

 

[Jarthur001]

What did Adam and Eve do to deserve Grace?

Nothing

What did anyone do to deserve grace? Nothing

We all deserve hell

 

[Brother Bob]

Good deal....


The elect as in "the elect to salvation" does not go to Hell. They are saved from Gods wrath of sin.

And this was done before the foundation of the world according to your belief, is that right. So, they are programmed to be saved and live a life of a Christian, is that right? IMO


Wait..this is two. No big deal....

God is our Father (the elect to salvation) and we follow Him and His Son, and Satan is the god of this world (the non-believer) and they follow after his way.

Therefore if you follow Him, then you would have to follow Him in righteous, for He does not do sin. Scripture says that the righteous of the Law if fulfulled in us. So, you are programmed to fulfull righteous, which the righteous of the Law, which is the Commandments.IMO

Rom 8:4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So, you are programmed to fulfill the righteous of the Law, if you are "elect" according to your belief. IMO

Have you bore false witness either on purpose or in innocent yet ignorant of the facts?
I could not say how many times you and others have said this to me and no, I do not lie, for liars are going to the Lake of Fire.

Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
If I thought I was a liar, I would be on my knees James starting over. My definition of a lie may be different than yours, but I believe a lie is to tell false with the intent to decieve. IMO


Not my words Bob. That is the words of an old Baptist creed.

But you agreed to those words James and if so, then God programmed all of the "elect" to be saved and live a certain way. IMO

so on to this.....



Please show me a verse that shows people are pre-programmed for anything.

I think I just gave you several.

Just one thing James, I don't know how many times you and others have fell back to the Commandment of not to tell false, and apply it to your opponent, (me) to support the breaking of other Commandments. I spend my life with everything in me, to try and live a righteous life James, and that includes not to tell a lie. My Dad taught me when I was a child, your word is as good as your bond and you will be judged all your life on "your word". That has been with me now for almost 69 years. I never was one to lie, not saying I didn't when I was in the world, but usually when I told you something you could go to the bank on it. God bless,


BBob,

edit; Maybe "programmed" is not a word you would of used and maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe "elected" to do those things would of been more appropriate.

 

[PK]

Nothing

What did anyone do to deserve grace? Nothing

We all deserve hell

Not if you were foreordained, called, and elected before time began. Your name was written in the LBOL before God made the world. He had Mercy on you and declared you righteous before he even made Adam, right?

 

[Jarthur001]

The elect as in "the elect to salvation" does not go to Hell. They are saved from Gods wrath of sin.

And this was done before the foundation of the world according to your belief, is that right. So, they are programmed to be saved and live a life of a Christian, is that right? IMO

We are not robots. Calvinist do not believe this, nor do non Calvinist. I would like to see a verse that proves your point. The only programming that MAY come close, is not brainwashing, but blood washing. Calvinist teach that the eyes are open and this is the unblinding by God of the truth, thereby the sinner sees his need.

God is our Father (the elect to salvation) and we follow Him and His Son, and Satan is the god of this world (the non-believer) and they follow after his way.

Therefore if you follow Him, then you would have to follow Him in righteous, for He does not do sin. Scripture says that the righteous of the Law if fulfulled in us. So, you are programmed to fulfull righteous, which the righteous of the Law, which is the Commandments.IMO

AGAIN...this is not programming. The Holy Spirit helps us not to sin, but we still sin. If we say we are without sin, we make God out to lie.

Rom 8:4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So, you are programmed to fulfill the righteous of the Law, if you are "elect" according to your belief. IMO

According to my belief you are wrong.

Have you bore false witness either on purpose or in innocent yet ignorant of the facts?

I could not say how many times you and others have said this to me and no, I do not lie, for liars are going to the Lake of Fire.

Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
If I thought I was a liar, I would be on my knees James starting over. My definition of a lie may be different than yours, but I believe a lie is to tell false with the intent to decieve. IMO

I asked if you have bore false witness. That means said anything that is not true....call it a lie, and white lie...or anything. Have you ever said anything false?

Not my words Bob. That is the words of an old Baptist creed.

Please show me a verse that shows people are pre-programmed for anything.

 

[Jarthur001]

Not if you were foreordained, called, and elected before time began. Your name was written in the LBOL before God made the world. He had Mercy on you and declared you righteous before he even made Adam, right?

Elected TO salvation. One is not born saved. God opens the eyes of some, not based on what they did, but based on election. The sinner still must believe. They will not believe till eyes are open to the truth.

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

 

[Brother Bob]

You didn't answer my question, Bob. I'll try again.

If God is responding to something man is doing/going to do, in the granting of Grace, and others do not recieve "grace" because they did not do the thing the first group did, then that cannot rightly be called "unmerited favor".

Can you explain how such a thing can be called "unmerited favor"?

They "merit" God's grace based on what they did. And, therefore, "grace" cannot rightly be called "grace" (unmerited favor). We must find a new definition for grace. Perhaps "merited mercy" would be more appropriate?

Can you answer the question, directly, please?

peace to youraying:

Why not give me a scripture on "unmerited favor" and I will try and answer it for you. Scripture plainly says that God in His Soveriegnity made the creature subject to vanity, but not willingly, but by reason of Him, who subjected the same in Hope.

So, you see God made man how he wanted to make him. He could of made him perfect, but chose to make him subject to vanity, but in doing so, made a way for his escape.

Now Grace has gone unto all the world, but the world must "believe". The whole Bible in based upon the belief of man and his "faith in God".

Give me a scripture and I will try and answer it for you.

Again, all men receive the Grace of God, without it you would die your next breath.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

We are not robots. Calvinist do not believe this, nor do non Calvinist. I would like to see a verse that proves your point. The only programming that MAY come close, is not brainwashing, but blood washing. Calvinist teach that the eyes are open and this is the unblinding by God of the truth, thereby the sinner sees his need.



AGAIN...this is not programming. The Holy Spirit helps us not to sin, but we still sin. If we say we are without sin, we make God out to lie.


According to my belief you are wrong.


I asked if you have bore false witness. That means said anything that is not true....call it a lie, and white lie...or anything. Have you ever said anything false?

Not my words Bob. That is the words of an old Baptist creed.

Please show me a verse that shows people are pre-programmed for anything.

I edited my statement to say, I maybe should of said "elected" to do these things instead of programmed, but we are mincing words now.

If you are the "elect" and chosen before the foundation of the world, you were not only chosen to be saved, you were chosen to live righteous and that includes Commandments.

This is the last time I will tell you James, I have not lied or bore false witness with the intent of deceiving someone. If you think about it to attempt to decieve someone, you would have to think what you are about to do, if you continue and tell false, you have lied. I will say again I do not or have not lied since salvation. I do not want to be cast into the Lake of Fire. Why do some just look over that scripture as if it don't mean what it says, that if you are a liar you will be in the Lake of
fire.

BBob,

 

[Rippon]

You have not lied since you were saved BB ? Really ?

 

[Brother Bob]

You have not lied since you were saved BB ? Really ?

Not to my knowledge Rippon. I can feel from your "sarcasm" that you think it is not true though. Thanks for your concern anyway.

BBob,

ps; Are you a liar Rip???

 

[PK]

Not to my knowledge Rippon. I can feel from your "sarcasm" that you think it is not true though. Thanks for your concern anyway.

BBob,

ps; Are you a liar Rip???

Wow!

God saved me but I still live with the old man.

 

[Rippon]

Not to my knowledge Rippon. I can feel from your "sarcasm" that you think it is not true though. Thanks for your concern anyway.

BBob,

ps; Are you a liar Rip???

I was not being sarcastic BB . I just found your remark to be unbelievable .

Am I a liar ? Well , it would be a lie for me to say that I haven't lied since I was saved 44 and a half years ago . A couple folks here have called me a liar . ( Confidentially they lied by saying that ! ) I have not willingly lied on the BB . My life is not characterized by lying . Have I been forthcoming enough for you and your concern ?

 

[Brother Bob]

Wow!

God saved me but I still live with the old man.

So do I, but kept by the power of God.

Zep 3:13The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make [them] afraid.

1Pe 1:5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


1Ti 2:7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, [and] lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

I was not being sarcastic BB . I just found your remark to be unbelievable .

Am I a liar ? Well , it would be a lie for me to say that I haven't lied since I was saved 44 and a half years ago . A couple folks here have called me a liar . ( Confidentially they lied by saying that ! ) I have not willingly lied on the BB . My life is not characterized by lying . Have I been forthcoming enough for you and your concern ?

Yes, you are forthcoming Rippon and again, to lie is to delibertatly tell someone a false knowingly. To do that you have to have thought of what you are about to do and willing to accept the consequences from God. That is how I look at what a lie is. Of course I have repeated some things after others that turned out to be wrong, but that is not a lie. I have even preached "hand me down scripture I thought" which turned out not to be scripture, that was not a lie. I never intended to decieve no one. I am sure you lead a good christian life Rippon and wish you nothing but the best in life.

1Jo 2:27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

BBob,

 

[canadyjd]

Why not give me a scripture on "unmerited favor" and I will try and answer it for you.

Instead of trying to change the subject, why not answer my question directly?

Do you believe that God "elects" based on "foreknowledge" and that "foreknowledge" means God sees who will believe and not believe and grants "grace" to those who believe. (That is your definition, is it not?)

If you hold to that definition of "foreknowledge" then you cannot define "grace" as "unmerited favor", since clearly you believe God based His decision to show mercy and grant grace based on something the person does. If God responds to the person (what they do), then they have earned something. That means the person "merited" God's mercy, while others did not.

You must change the definition of "grace" to fit your understanding of "foreknowledge", don't you?

peace to youraying:

 

[Rippon]

Yes, you are forthcoming Rippon and again, to lie is to delibertatly tell someone a false knowingly. To do that you have to have thought of what you are about to do and willing to accept the consequences from God. That is how I look at what a lie is. Of course I have repeated some things after others that turned out to be wrong, but that is not a lie. I have even preached "hand me down scripture I thought" which turned out not to be scripture, that was not a lie. I never intended to decieve no one. I am sure you lead a good christian life Rippon and wish you nothing but the best in life.

1Jo 2:27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

BBob,

I'm nonplussed BB . You are very kind . This will have to take some getting used to .

 

[EdSutton]

Wow!

God saved me but I still live with the old man.

My bride :love2: might say the same thing about me. :laugh:

That really makes her a :saint:, you know.

Ed