reformedbeliever
New Member
KSeeker said:
I wish this were true, but unfortunately the Word of God says that He will say to some....... "depart from me you workers of inequity"............
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The Glorious "Gospel of Election"
- Thread starter skypair
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I wish this were true, but unfortunately the Word of God says that He will say to some....... "depart from me you workers of inequity"............
Why do you limit the salvation of a man to only before death? Can God not save whomever He will, whenever He will? The Bible clearly tells us that all man will be saved. I believe that i have already had this debate in another thread somewhere and got nowhere. Christ's shed blood and atoning of sin was for all mankind. PERIOD. Our decision to believe or not does not effect the work of Christ on the cross...What did Christ cry out before He died? "IT IS FINISHED" His work was complete, not lacking anything or anyone.
Now, I understand that a man's belief in the act of Christ on the cross makes a HUGE difference in his life on earth and when he dies...he will not have to face certain judgements that an unsaved man will have to face. But doesn't Revelation 21:4 say "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
Now if some were to remain unsaved for eternity wouldn't that contradict this verse that says there shall be no more pain, death, crying, etc?
Now, I understand that a man's belief in the act of Christ on the cross makes a HUGE difference in his life on earth and when he dies...he will not have to face certain judgements that an unsaved man will have to face. But doesn't Revelation 21:4 say "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
Now if some were to remain unsaved for eternity wouldn't that contradict this verse that says there shall be no more pain, death, crying, etc?
Please put that verse in context... Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.reformedbeliever said:
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These people are calling Christ, Lord...without chastisement from Christ! AND notice verse 21. What is the requirement to enter the kingdom of heaven based on this verse? He that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven, right? That's a works salvation, and that CANNOT BE TRUTH
SO what is this really talking about? Are these people saved or unsaved?
reformedbeliever
New Member
KSeeker said:
They are unsaved. That is the context. You don't think Christ telling them to depart is chastisement? Doing the will of the Father has nothing to do with working for salvation.... it is saying that those who are saved will do the will of the Father.
reformedbeliever
New Member
Lets see what you do with this scripture.
Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Brother Bob
New Member
reformedbeliever said:
He will also tell them the reason they are on the left!!
Matt; 25:41
41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I do not find where He will say to them: "I chose to not change your heart, and that is why you are a goat"!!
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Brother Bob said:He will also tell them the reason they are on the left!!
Matt; 25:41
41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I do not find where He will say to them: "I chose to not change your heart, and that is why you are a goat"!!
But it does say that because some did no DO some things that they are being punished. That cannot be a picture of an unsaved person going to "Hell" because we cannot obtain salvation by DOING anything. Eph 2:8-9 This portion of scripture, then has to be referring to something other than spiritual salvation.
Dr. L.T. Ketchum
New Member
Matthew chapters 24-25 refer to the second coming and the Millennial Kingdom after the second coming of Christ to His Kingdom Throne (Matthew 25:31-46). Matthew 25:31-46 is referring to the differences in the way Tribulation believers and the Antichrist reprobates treat Jews during the last week of Daniel. Matthew 25:40 is the key verse to understanding the text ("the least of these my brethren").
Believers will understand God's blessing upon the nation of Israel and will sacrificially provide for Jews and protect them from the persecution of Antichristism. Antichrist unbelievers, led by the New Babylon (Muslim Confederacy of nations) and the Great Whore (Ecumenical Apostasy), will try to kill every Jew on the face of the earth.
Believers will understand God's blessing upon the nation of Israel and will sacrificially provide for Jews and protect them from the persecution of Antichristism. Antichrist unbelievers, led by the New Babylon (Muslim Confederacy of nations) and the Great Whore (Ecumenical Apostasy), will try to kill every Jew on the face of the earth.
Brother Bob
New Member
KSeeker said:
Jhn 14:15¶If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Seems to me you would have to believe in Jesus to love Him.
Act 16:30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
1Jo 5:13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
You must believe!!!!!, You can't do nothing except you believe.
Job 32:8But [there is] a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
Jhn 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Mat 3:7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Mat 3:8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Act 10:4And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
Act 10:28And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Act 10:45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
BBob,
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Dr. L.T. Ketchum
New Member
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:40).KSeeker said:
I agree that salvation comes by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. But can you explain the many verses that state that Jesus Christ IS the savior of the world (of all mankind in some passages)? There are no conditions set to those verses. For instance, not a single one says that Christ is the Savior of the world, ONLY if the whole world comes to a saving knowledge of Him. Those verses are very definate. HE IS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. Maybe not on our time frame, meaning the whole world will not be saved at His second coming but I believe there will be a point God, through His Son will complete the redemptive work of all mankind. I see where you are coming from. I do agree that one HAS to believe to be saved...Is God limited to drawing lost souls to Himself only in this age?webdog said:
If you'd like scripture ref. , I will have to get back to you later. I'm leaving work and won't be home until late.
Brother Bob
New Member
Belief from the heart is not just believing but entails all these things, for how could you believe on Jesus, except you love Him, how could you love Him, without keeping His commandments.KSeeker said:
BBob,
Brother Bob
New Member
Are you saying, in the end that no one will be lost??KSeeker said:
BBob,
reformedbeliever
New Member
Brother Bob said:
That is exactly what he is saying.
KSeeker Quote:
Originally Posted by webdog
Curious...are you a universalist?
*edited...I asked this question on another thread last month, and you never did reply.
.
You are right about Jesus death paying for all sins. Some here do not accept that but it is true. We "prove" it when we see the "Great White Throne" judgment before which all the LOST appear. They are raised from hell and given new bodies at the GWT for the precise reason that they are without sins.KSeeker said:
But they are cast forever into the "lake of fire" for 1 sin, of ommission --- for not accepting God/Christ/Holy Spirit. The "unpardonable sin ... forgiven neither in this world nor the world to come" is blasphemy of the Spirit.
And so what of the book of works? It is the book of GOOD works that will mediate the eternal spiritual torture of the lake of fire. Strictly speaking, the 2nd death is physical and the lake of fire is spiritual flames of eternally wishing what cannot be. Whether the spirit feels fire or not, I will not judge.
skypair