The Gospel of YOUR Salvation !

[Darrell C]

darrell



Ok show me where I stated that John was wrong ? I cant remember bringing up Jn 1:29 !

So you acknowledge that Christ died for the sins of the world?

Does that not demand that the entire world was under condemnation?

You said, in response to my post in which I showed the opportunity given in reference to the entire world...

Originally Posted by savedbymercy View Post
The all Christ died for, they are born into this world as enemies, but even then they are reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10 ! That does not apply to all without exception, because some as enemies are already condemned! So Christ couldn't have died for them!

This denies (both (lol)) John's statement that Christ had come to take away the sins of the world. The reference to His being the Lamb represents His sacrifice for Himself, which was not, as you say, exclusionary, but was in fact, according to both a Prophet of God as well as implied by the Writer in the context (it is not alluded to as being erroneous)...a death meant to rectify the sin problem of the world.

And we know from other New Testament revelation that His death was propitious in regards to the transgressions of those who died before Christ died.

So again I ask you...are you now acknowledging that Christ died for the world or are you still going to teach an exclusionary gospel?


God bless.

 

[savedbymercy]

darrell

So you acknowledge that Christ died for the sins of the world?

Wait a minute, you stated that I stated John was wrong ! Now please provide that statement I made, or admit you are a liar again !

I need to see the statement where I said:

John is wrong !

 

[savedbymercy]

darrell

This denies (both (lol)) John's statement that Christ had come to take away the sins of the world.

No, Romans 5:10 doesnt deny Jn 1:29 ! Romans 5:10 proves that those Christ died for, His Death reconciled them to God even while they were being enemies. And we know for a fact all without exception are not reconciled to God while they are enemies/unbelievers, because many as unbelievers are under God's condemnation Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Now you cant be both reconciled to God[By Christ's Death] as an enemy/unbeliever and condemned by God as an enemy/unbeliever !

 

[Darrell C]

darrell



Wait a minute, you stated that I stated John was wrong ! Now please provide that statement I made, or admit you are a liar again !

I need to see the statement where I said:

John is wrong !

Apparently you cannot understand even what you are saying.

This is what happens when you try to create a theology on the run.

I'll try to point it out again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbymercy View Post
The all Christ died for, they are born into this world as enemies, but even then they are reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10 ! That does not apply to all without exception, because some as enemies are already condemned! So Christ couldn't have died for them!

And now, let's look at John the Baptist's statement again:


John 1:29

King James Version (KJV)

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Then I asked...

Originally Posted by Darrell C
Then John the Baptist had it wrong? Christ was not the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world?

...and I ask again...


Christ was not the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world?

If you say...

Originally Posted by savedbymercy View Post
The all Christ died for, they are born into this world as enemies, but even then they are reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10 ! That does not apply to all without exception, because some as enemies are already condemned! So Christ couldn't have died for them!

...then you are denying John's statement, because if He did not die for all, then He did not die for the sins of the world.

You have been shown many passages which show that all men are under condemnation, yet you refuse to acknowledge those statements and then call me a liar.

Amazing.

So address the point: did Christ die to take away the sins of the world or was John in error?


God bless.

 

[savedbymercy]

darrell

Apparently you cannot understand even what you are saying.

Whats apparent is that you have outright lied, and cannot produce a quote of mine stating John is wrong ! John 1:29 is a True Fact !

But however you are guilty of denying what Paul wrote here Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now I can show where you literally posted that those Christ died for are not reconciled to God while they are enemies and unbelievers, but that its only made possible that it shall be !

That is denying scripture !

 

[savedbymercy]

darrell

then you are denying John's statement, because if He did not die for all, then He did not die for the sins of the world.

No its not denying Johns statement, those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10 ! Now we know all men without exception are not reconciled to God while they are being enemies because many as enemies and unbelievers are under God's condemnation Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So apparently you dont believe or understand Jn 1:29 !

 

[Darrell C]

darrell

This denies (both (lol)) John's statement that Christ had come to take away the sins of the world.

No, Romans 5:10 doesnt deny Jn 1:29 !

I didn't say Romans 5:10 denies John 1:29. I said you did. And continue to do so.

John state Christ is the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.

Furthermore, Atonement is not Universally applied but is specific to those who believe on Christ...only.

And they are not saved until they hear the Gospel, respond to the Gospel, and place their faith in Christ.

The Gospel does not "reach the ears of the saved and the lost," it only reaches the ears of the lost.

Romans 5:10 proves that those Christ died for, His Death reconciled them to God even while they were being enemies.

No kidding.

Just like a rescue team rescues a hostage even while they are hostages.

And we know for a fact all without exception are not reconciled to God while they are enemies/unbelievers, because many as unbelievers are under God's condemnation Jn 3:18

Yet you create a false doctrine that those who are reconciled were saved before they were reconciled.

Have you ever bothered to study what reconciliation means?

Here's a start for you:


Colossians 1:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


Romans 5:10-11

King James Version (KJV)

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.



Now ask yourself...what exactly does the reconciliation consist of? What does the Atonement mean?

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And again...only those that come to believe are not under the condemnation those who have not believed are.

That means everyone.

Now you cant be both reconciled to God[By Christ's Death] as an enemy/unbeliever and condemned by God as an enemy/unbeliever !

The point of reconciliation is the time of salvation, not a universal application which has no precise moment of bestowal.

All men stand under condemnation and under penalty of death. When someone places faith in Christ they are reconciled to God through Christ.


Romans 5:10-11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.


We have "now" received the atonement through Christ.

Not in the past before we were born.

Answer me this: Do you think you were a born again believer before you were saved?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Were you a born again believer before you were saved?


God bless.

 

[savedbymercy]

Were you a born again believer before you were saved?


God bless.

That's a rabbit trail question away from the debate / discussion of the scriptures! So that is none of your business, stick to what scriptures state!

 

[savedbymercy]

I didn't say Romans 5:10 denies John 1:29. I said you did. And continue to do so.

John state Christ is the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.

Furthermore, Atonement is not Universally applied but is specific to those who believe on Christ...only.

And they are not saved until they hear the Gospel, respond to the Gospel, and place their faith in Christ.

The Gospel does not "reach the ears of the saved and the lost," it only reaches the ears of the lost.




No kidding.

Just like a rescue team rescues a hostage even while they are hostages.




Yet you create a false doctrine that those who are reconciled were saved before they were reconciled.

Have you ever bothered to study what reconciliation means?

Here's a start for you:


Colossians 1:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


Romans 5:10-11

King James Version (KJV)

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.



Now ask yourself...what exactly does the reconciliation consist of? What does the Atonement mean?




And again...only those that come to believe are not under the condemnation those who have not believed are.

That means everyone.




The point of reconciliation is the time of salvation, not a universal application which has no precise moment of bestowal.

All men stand under condemnation and under penalty of death. When someone places faith in Christ they are reconciled to God through Christ.


Romans 5:10-11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.


We have "now" received the atonement through Christ.

Not in the past before we were born.

Answer me this: Do you think you were a born again believer before you were saved?


God bless.

Those Christ died for are not under condemnation, they are reconciled to God while they are enemies /unbelievers Rom 5:10 you flat out deny scripture which is unbelief!

 

[Darrell C]

Those Christ died for are not under condemnation, they are reconciled to God while they are enemies /unbelievers Rom 5:10 you flat out deny scripture which is unbelief!

Were you born again before you were saved?

This is the last question I pose to you until you answer.


God bless.

 

[savedbymercy]

Were you born again before you were saved?

This is the last question I pose to you until you answer.


God bless.

See previous response to that question!

 

[lakeside]

The Hebrew texts Jerome used are now long vanished. And he based his translations of the deuteros on the LXX anyway.

The thing about MODERN Hebrew texts is that they are actually not very old. Most Hebrew texts now used date back only to the Middle Ages and are full of errors. They have to be corrected from the LXX in modern translations, even though in the case of many discrepancies the Hebrew text tends to be favoured.

They are vanished no longer (Dead Sea Scrolls). Incidentally they favor the LXX.
__________________

 

[Darrell C]

The Hebrew texts Jerome used are now long vanished. And he based his translations of the deuteros on the LXX anyway.

The thing about MODERN Hebrew texts is that they are actually not very old. Most Hebrew texts now used date back only to the Middle Ages and are full of errors. They have to be corrected from the LXX in modern translations, even though in the case of many discrepancies the Hebrew text tends to be favoured.

They are vanished no longer (Dead Sea Scrolls). Incidentally they favor the LXX.
__________________

Did you get this response in the right thread, lakeside?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

See previous response to that question!

Likewise.

I will leave you to your thread, because my time here is drawing to a close, and I think I will focus on the Rapture before I go.

I will answer the question for you:

You were not, nor was any man born again at birth. Only those who turn to Christ in faith, believing on His Name...are saved.

The Gospel goes out to only one set of ears, and that is the ears of the Lost. And it is the Word of God enlightened by the Comforter in someone's heart that brings about that most supernatural act of God...which is making the natural man a spiritual man.

Good luck in your studies.


God bless.

 

[savedbymercy]

Likewise.

I will leave you to your thread, because my time here is drawing to a close, and I think I will focus on the Rapture before I go.

I will answer the question for you:

You were not, nor was any man born again at birth. Only those who turn to Christ in faith, believing on His Name...are saved.

The Gospel goes out to only one set of ears, and that is the ears of the Lost. And it is the Word of God enlightened by the Comforter in someone's heart that brings about that most supernatural act of God...which is making the natural man a spiritual man.

Good luck in your studies.


God bless.

Ok, next time you want to debate scripture, stick with scripture, which you don't believe! You deny that those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His Death while they are enemies, so it's impossible for them to be of those who are under Gods condemnation as enemies like those of Jn 3:18!

 

[savedbymercy]

Called unto the fellowship of Jesus Christ !

1 Cor 1:6-9

6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Call of the Gospel as it pertains to Salvation, its a Call to the redeemed unto the Fellowship of God's Son, the Lord Jesus Christ ! This being the case, its of necessity that the ones being called are Holy, the Children of Light, they must already be New Creatures, Babes, for the simple fact, Christ is who Light cannot fellowship with darkness, and before being Spiritual babes, we are not only in darkness, but we are darkness Eph 5:8

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

That applies to us all by nature ! God doesn't call darkness to the fellowship of the Light 2 Cor 6:14

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Before fellowship with Christ, iniquity must be taken away before God can receive us into fellowship Hos 14:2

Take with you words, and turn to the Lord: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

The Gospel for us to come to Christ or God in Christ, its only to those who have had their iniquity taken away 2 Cor 5:19-21

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This is the Testimony of God confirmed in the Called 1 Cor 1:6 !

Now what many false teachers neglect to realize is that the Call in Vs 20 is strictly to them that have no sin charged to them or to their account Vs 19,

Iniquity for them has been taken away, they have been made New Creatures Vs 17, and now is their Call to Fellowship in the Truth, with Him that was made sin for them, that they should be made the Righteousness of God in Him , 1 Cor 1:9 ! Again God cannot and will Call darkness unto the Fellowship of the Gospel and His Son ! Phil 1:4-6

4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy,

5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[savedbymercy]

They are Gospel Commands for the regenerate !

We have read in scripture the commands or imperatives to repent and believe the Gospel, or similar to it ! Mk 1:15

15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

BTW in the original it is THE Gospel with the definite article, because its the one and only Gospel of God, there are no other Gospels !

All this mess about it being different gospels for different dispensations and people is nothing but a Lie !

Acts 19:4

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 16:31

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house

The word believe here in the original is an imperative making it a command to be obeyed, not an offer !

Now these commands cannot be issued to any by nature, for all men by nature are experimentally under the Law, the Covenant of works as was Adam, under which the alternatives are only fully obey the command of God or die, repentance is not an option, this is the mandate to all by nature; hence to demand Gospel obedience to men and women in nature is against the Nature, Holiness and Truth of God, the soul that sinneth it must die ! Thats the strict Justice of the Law or Covenant of Works !

So Gospel Commands can only apply to experimentally New Creatures in Christ, Born of God, Born of the Spirit. This is so to give evidence of New Life from Christ, and so Faith and Repentance are Gifts Granted from that New Life from Christ, which indicated they were not under the Law by Nature, but Under Grace by the Spirit ! So its not even possible to command those in nature, the flesh, unregenerate to Repent and Believe the Gospel !

 

[savedbymercy]

They are Gospel Commands for the regenerate ! 2

Again, by nature, Man is under a Covenant of Works as was man was in Adam, and by it obligated to Obey God's Law in every precept of it without one plea for mercy in coming short of it, Perfect Obedience is demanded or else death. In Adam/nature we cannot sin then beg mercy, under law men die without mercy Heb 10:28

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Now Cp Jn 1:17

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


Also, the Law came by Adam at the first , in keeping God's Command or else ! Gen 2:15-17

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

There is not a hint of mercy in the violation of this Commandment !

The Covenant of Moses was in principle was nothing more than a enlarged reflection of the Covenant with Adam ! Man in nature violated , broke these Covenants !

God says about man in Adam Hos 6:7

But they like men/adam have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

He says about man under the Law/Covenant of Moses Jer 31:32

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

Thats because it was a Covenant mandated upon strict Justice, without Mercy !

And so it is with all men by nature, they cannot be under the Gospel Covenant of Grace which Faith and Repentance are involved !

Gal 3:10

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[savedbymercy]

The Gospel is sent positively to them that are to obey it !

1Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Obedience here is Gospel Obedience, like when Paul said of the Gentiles Rom 16:26

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Paul wrote to some this Acts 13:26

26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

That is to them is sent by God the Gospel of their Salvation, the Word of Truth Eph 1:13.

Understand something here about Acts 13:26, God is doing the sending, and its being sent by God to a place of His Divineappointment and purpose.

Also God does not send a word of Salvation, or the Gospel of ones Salvation to a lost person, but to them that Fears God, Acts 13:26

26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

A lost person does not fear God, Rom 3:18

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

But when God sends the Gospel to them that Fear Him from a New Regenerated Heart, it is so that they may believe it and or obey it ! To believe its Doctrines, recall Paul writing to the Roman Believers this Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Now in the original this would read quite different " Thanks[be] moreover to God, that you used to be servants of sin, you have become obedient moreover, from the heart, to which you were entrusted to the form of teaching !

The ASV captures the original :

17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas ye were servants of sin, ye became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto ye were delivered;

See the force of that ? In other words they were delivered to, or handed over to the Gospel Doctrines to obey from the Heart !