The Great God and Saviour of us Jesus Christ

[MB]

Well I have studied the doctrine of the Godhead and each member of the Godhead, had a purpose and neither one could carry out the purpose of the other, though ALL were connected to the purpose to SAVE, just one, if just one needed saving... As a preacher I know has said... Three in one and one in three and the one in the middle died for me!... Brethren on here as long as I've been here, having been trying to explain the Trinity?... As they say its above your pay grade!... I believe in three person but one God... Do you have the Father giving to the Son, who is the Father?... Do you have Jesus Christ praying to himself?... What are you going to do with the Holy Spirit?... Some brethren one here treat him like a non-entity... The Godhead... The Eternal Father is the creator... The Eternal Son is the redeemer and The Holy Spirit is the regenerator... And without the purpose and working of the Godhead, the three and one together... None would be saved!... And would someone please explain these verses to me, does the Son deliver the Kingdom to himself?

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

And btw... Don't you you brethren try to slide your millennial reign in here, it doesn't fit!... Brother Glen

Dementia is common in this latter part of your life.
MB

 

[Van]

and this is from someone who know next to nothing about Greek grammar!

The position of Dr. Wallace is presented in English. You can run, but you cannot hide.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes we see you have the unmitigated gall, the unabashed temerity to question the knowledge level of Dr. Dan Wallace.

and this is from Dr Marvin Vincent

"Of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ (τοῦ μεγάλου θεοῦ καὶ σωτῆρος ἡμῶν Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ). For Jesus Christ rend. Christ Jesus. Μέγας great with God, N. T.o, but often in LXX. According to A.V. two persons are indicated, God and Christ. Rev. with others rend. of our great God and Saviour Christ Jesus, thus indicating one person, and asserting the deity of Christ. I adopt the latter, although the arguments and authorities in favour of the two renderings are very evenly balanced. For one person are urged: 1. That the two appellations θεὸς and σωτήρ are included under a single article. 2. That σωτήρ with ἡμῶν, where there are two appellatives, has the article in every case, except 1 Tim. 1:1; and that therefore its omission here indicates that it is taken with θεοῦ under the regimen of τοῦ. 3. That ὃς in ver. 14 is singular and refers to Christ, indicating that only one person is spoken of in ver. 13. 4. The analogy of 2 Pet. 1:1, 11; 3:18. 5. The declarations concerning Christ in Col. 1:15; 2 Th. 1:7; 1 Pet. 4:13; Col. 2:9. For two persons are urged: 1. The fact that θεὸς is never found connected directly with Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς as an attribute. 2. The frequency with which God and Christ are presented in the N. T. as distinct from each other, as having a common relation to men in the economy of grace, makes it probable that the same kind of union is intended here, and not a presentation of Christ as God. 3. The evident reference of θεοῦ in ver. 11 to God the Father. 4. The analogy of 2 Th. 1:12." (Word studies in the New Testament)

 

[SavedByGrace]

The position is in English. You can run, but you cannot hide.

out of your depth! Prove me wrong from the Greek, which is what matters here!

 

[Van]

and this is from Dr Marvin Vincent

"Of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ (τοῦ μεγάλου θεοῦ καὶ σωτῆρος ἡμῶν Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ). For Jesus Christ rend. Christ Jesus. Μέγας great with God, N. T.o, but often in LXX. According to A.V. two persons are indicated, God and Christ. Rev. with others rend. of our great God and Saviour Christ Jesus, thus indicating one person, and asserting the deity of Christ. I adopt the latter, although the arguments and authorities in favour of the two renderings are very evenly balanced. For one person are urged: 1. That the two appellations θεὸς and σωτήρ are included under a single article. 2. That σωτήρ with ἡμῶν, where there are two appellatives, has the article in every case, except 1 Tim. 1:1; and that therefore its omission here indicates that it is taken with θεοῦ under the regimen of τοῦ. 3. That ὃς in ver. 14 is singular and refers to Christ, indicating that only one person is spoken of in ver. 13. 4. The analogy of 2 Pet. 1:1, 11; 3:18. 5. The declarations concerning Christ in Col. 1:15; 2 Th. 1:7; 1 Pet. 4:13; Col. 2:9. For two persons are urged: 1. The fact that θεὸς is never found connected directly with Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς as an attribute. 2. The frequency with which God and Christ are presented in the N. T. as distinct from each other, as having a common relation to men in the economy of grace, makes it probable that the same kind of union is intended here, and not a presentation of Christ as God. 3. The evident reference of θεοῦ in ver. 11 to God the Father. 4. The analogy of 2 Th. 1:12." (Word studies in the New Testament)

Good grief, this post actually supports Dr. Wallace, not KJVO.

 

[Van]

out of your depth! Prove me wrong from the Greek, which is what matters here!

You are now attempting to hide from the truth Dr. Wallace presented in English. Next you want me to prove you wrong in Greek rather than you show Dr. Wallace is wrong about Titus 2:13 in English. Go figure folks, go figure...

 

[SavedByGrace]

Well I have studied the doctrine of the Godhead and each member of the Godhead, had a purpose and neither one could carry out the purpose of the other, though ALL were connected to the purpose to SAVE, just one, if just one needed saving... As a preacher I know has said... Three in one and one in three and the one in the middle died for me!... Brethren on here as long as I've been here, having been trying to explain the Trinity?... As they say its above your pay grade!... I believe in three person but one God... Do you have the Father giving to the Son, who is the Father?... Do you have Jesus Christ praying to himself?... What are you going to do with the Holy Spirit?... Some brethren one here treat him like a non-entity... The Godhead... The Eternal Father is the creator... The Eternal Son is the redeemer and The Holy Spirit is the regenerator... And without the purpose and working of the Godhead, the three and one together... None would be saved!... And would someone please explain these verses to me, does the Son deliver the Kingdom to himself?

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

And btw... Don't you you brethren try to slide your millennial reign in here, it doesn't fit!... Brother Glen

In Revelation 11:15, it reads, "Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”. The words, "he shall reign" are one word in the Greek, "βασιλεύσει", which is in the singular number, used here for the JOINT REIGN of BOTH "our Lord" and "His Christ". Likewise in 22:1, it says, "the Throne (θρόνου) of God and the Lamb", again, in the singular, for JOINT REIGN. And in verse 3, " And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" "shall serve HIM", in the singular, "αὐτῷ", meaning the Throne (Reign) of "God" and "the Lamb" are one and the same. JOINT!

 

[37818]

And btw... Don't you you brethren try to slide your millennial reign in here, it doesn't fit!... Brother Glen

It, the millennial reign, does not fit you understanding of it in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Good grief, this post actually supports Dr. Wallace, not KJVO.

can you read? "although the arguments and authorities in favour of the two renderings are very evenly balanced", shows that BOTH readings are possible from the Greek!

 

[SavedByGrace]

It, the millennial reign, does not fit you understanding of it in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28.

see # 47

 

[SavedByGrace]

can we please keep this to the OP

 

[Van]

can you read? "although the arguments and authorities in favour of the two renderings are very evenly balanced", shows that BOTH readings are possible from the Greek!

The author of the article supports Dr. Wallace's position.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The author of the article supports Dr. Wallace's position.

yes I know that, I was showing that there are TWO, rather THREE, as I have shown in the OP, readings for Titus 2:13, each one based on the Greek of the text!

 

[Van]

WOW! Dr Wallace, so he must be right? Yeah, he is also very wrong to reject 1 John 5:7 as in the KJV, as the Greek grammar shows in verses 6-10, that the disputed words about the Holy Trinity, MUST form part of the passage, or else the Greek Grammar is faulty, which is impossible, as God Himself Inspired the Writers of the 66 Books of the Holy Bible. Wallace as a Greek "scholar" should know about this, and if he does, then his knowledge of the grammar here is wrong! Don't let "scholars" make you think that they must be right!

Apparently this "expert" leans toward KJVO arguments, the fiction that there are no errors in the KJV. Should have known...

 

[MB]

So far as I can see, there are no textual variants in Titus 2:13. M.T., C.T. and T,R seem to be in harmony. As I recall, the same is true in 1 Peter 1:1.

Where do you believe these Variants come from?Is it men who are attempting to change the word to there particular preference?, Or is it Satanic influence, Maybe just men who wish to be Christian but they can't leave there sinful lives behind .So they bring there sin in to there Salvation so they can have both.
MB

 

[Van]

Returning to topic, the deity of Christ is taught by Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 if properly translated according to the Granville Sharpe rule. Other verses also support the deity of Christ.

Acts 20:28; As the Son of God, Christ is divine.
Eph 5:5; Here the kingdom of heaven is clearly the domain of both Christ and God.
2 Thess 1:12; our God and Lord Jesus Christ
1 Tim 5:21; this puts God and Christ on equal footing
2 Tim 4:1; Another verse presenting equal footing
Jude 4, Our only Master and Lord puts Christ equal to the highest authority

 

[SavedByGrace]

if properly translated according to the Granville Sharpe rule

this "rule" is NOT without exceptions, and therefore cannot be used to show a conclusion from the Greek grammar alone.

see # 15

 

[MB]

you can see from my many threads...ADVANCED

Do you have a doctorate.
MB

 

[Van]

this "rule" is NOT without exceptions, and therefore cannot be used to show a conclusion from the Greek grammar alone.
see # 15

Note the poster ignores Titus and 2 Peter as the only ones without exception.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Do you have a doctorate.
MB

BA born again!