The Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem. .....the Church

[Iconoclast]

Forgive us DHK......King Jesus rules every molecule in this creation. He has ascended to Heaven ruling eternally.Dan7

That is why we cannot confess to satan ruling anything but blinding the minds of unsaved persons as 2 Cor speaks of.

Here is the problem once again. You say we falsely accuse you each day. We do accuse you based on your posting....but the evidence shows proof of your errant thoughts.
In this case the wording of your post was very suspect....thanks for attempting to clarify.

To your credit....I have seen you denounce Finney, and Oberlin Theology......I have seen you do this......so why then do you offer teaching from these failed ideas? If I denounce Adolf Hitler.....then quote from Mein Kampf every other post....who you be justified in accusing me also? That seems to be what happens here.

These brief portions from Isaiah show a common pattern....metaphorical descriptions of the literal/Spiritual Kingdom. You never look at things like this as possible, do you?

 

[Iconoclast]

I guess you have missed Is 54:5
For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.
Also note that is in present tense not future. He IS the God of the whole earth.

Is. 6:3
And they were calling to one another: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory."
Again present tense.

1 Chro. 16:14
He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.

Ps. 47:4
For God is the King of all the earth; sing praises with a psalm!

2 Kings 109:15
And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD and said: “O LORD, the God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.


Just a few verse to show that yes God is the God of this world. He is the God of all the kingdoms of this world. Stop trying to pull Him from His rightful spot and put Satan in it.
You err not knowing the Scriptures.

Well said BW.....this should help clear up this lingering confusion.

 

[blessedwife318]

Well said BW.....this should help clear up this lingering confusion.

Thanks, and one can always hope

 

[DHK]

I guess you have missed Is 54:5
For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.
Also note that is in present tense not future. He IS the God of the whole earth.

Is. 6:3
And they were calling to one another: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory."
Again present tense.

1 Chro. 16:14
He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.

Ps. 47:4
For God is the King of all the earth; sing praises with a psalm!

2 Kings 109:15
And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD and said: “O LORD, the God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.


Just a few verse to show that yes God is the God of this world. He is the God of all the kingdoms of this world. Stop trying to pull Him from His rightful spot and put Satan in it.
You err not knowing the Scriptures.

Let't look at with an open mind and objectively, keeping in mind that Scripture cannot contradict Scripture.
The context of Psalm 54:4. Start with verse one:
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child:
--It is a song. It presents the Messiah as the Redeemer and Restorer when someday he will be the Lord of all the earth. Read the entire chapter carefully.

In Isa.6:3 it is Isaiah's vision of God's glory. The earth does show forth the glory of God in all of nature. No one can deny that. Look at nature. But that doesn't mean that God is ruling in the hear and now.

1Chr. 16:14. The ark had just been placed in the tent. Starting at verse seven David begins a beautiful "psalm" of thanksgiving. In any psalm or prayer of thanksgiving one is apt to describe God in this way attributing to God only but the highest praise and glory. But it does not say that he is ruling over all the earth; simply that he is a just God.

Psa. 47:4. Another psalm, another prayer. It is difficult to take doctrine from one's prayer.
vs.1
To the chief Musician, A Psalm for the sons of Korah. O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph.
Psa 47:2 For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.
--Even MacArthur admits that this will be a time future when Christ will be a King over all the earth. He is not that King now.

And again, Hezekiah's prayer was just that, a prayer. It does not speak for the accuracy of Hezekiah's doctrine.

 

[blessedwife318]

Wow the measures you will go to dethrone God, and exalt Satan.

 

[tyndale1946]

Wow the measures you will go to dethrone God, and exalt Satan.

God rules and he super rules NOW!... If the church (the saints of God) that now inhabit this earth were removed (to me the saints of God are the glue that holds our world together)... Then chaotic widespread evil would cover the earth unimaginable to the mind of anyone on this board and the Lord would destroy the evil men in it... Just like in Noah's day only this time with fire!... Brother Glen

 

[Internet Theologian]

Did I deny that Christ is Jehovah?

Apparently as you made a false dichotomy. It was a Freudian slip on your part.

I figured this would be your retort, after your erroneous belief was pointed out to you. I take it you learned something (that you were wrong) and now you're cleaning up your mess while making pretense to having known this all along.

By the way, Jesus reigns, not satan whom you dethrone and enthrone respectively, Matthew 28:18ff.

(for the record, to dispel misrepresentations as much as possible nowhere did I say dhk denies the Deity of Christ, just that he was unaware about Him being YHWH)

 

[SovereignGrace]

Satan is the 'god' of the world. He has blinded those in the world. The believers have been transferred from his realm(kingdom) into the realm(kingdom) of God.

As sinners we were blinded by satan. As believers we now see.
As sinners, we had satan's yoke upon us. Christ's yoke is upon us now, being believers.

So satan is 'god' of the world, the world being the lost. Look at Job for instance. God allowed him to go so far and no further. All evil in the world is via his influence and I do not deny it. However, in all this evil, God trumps him when he goes as far as He allows him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

But you do falsely accuse me. Christ is omnipresent perhaps in a way we cannot understand. He indwells every believer, does He not? Yet at the same time he retains a physical body and sits on the right hand at the throne of God. How can a finite man comprehend an infinite God. That is what Psalm 139 is all about.

Psalms 139:6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

Or do you have a greater mind than David?

Here was what I said and how I worded it...

I am not trying to falsely accuse you, but this is how you wording comes across to me. To say that Christ is not omnipresent right now, is not ruling right now, is to not have Him on par with His Father.

I was seeking further clarification from you, that is all.

 

[DHK]

Wow the measures you will go to dethrone God, and exalt Satan.

What measures? I take the Bible literally, and look at the context when I quote Scripture.
It is just like Rev.3:20 that so many people quote of context. You may or may not agree with me here.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
--The verse is not talking about salvation is it. However that is the way I hear it used most often. Even though Jesus is speaking to believers, "believers" use this verse out of context over and over again.
You are doing the same thing. Taking scripture out of context and using it just the way you want to, without regard for context.

So what, if the Bible says that "satan is the god of this world"? Who cares about those scriptures any way!!
You have better ones that fit your theology right?!
So ignore Scripture like 2Cor.4:4; Eph.2:1-3; Eph.6:12; 2Cor.10:3-5; etc. and just use the scriptures you want to use whether they be in context or not. Right?

 

[Iconoclast]

What measures? I take the Bible literally, and look at the context when I quote Scripture.
It is just like Rev.3:20 that so many people quote of context. You may or may not agree with me here.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
--The verse is not talking about salvation is it. However that is the way I hear it used most often. Even though Jesus is speaking to believers, "believers" use this verse out of context over and over again.
You are doing the same thing. Taking scripture out of context and using it just the way you want to, without regard for context.

So what, if the Bible says that "satan is the god of this world"? Who cares about those scriptures any way!!
You have better ones that fit your theology right?!
So ignore Scripture like 2Cor.4:4; Eph.2:1-3; Eph.6:12; 2Cor.10:3-5; etc. and just use the scriptures you want to use whether they be in context or not. Right?

get a clue....small g......= not god....false god

 

[Iconoclast]

Here was what I said and how I worded it...



I was seeking further clarification from you, that is all.

yes...it was clear to all of us like many portions of scripture are....SOMEBODY MISSED IT.......it was not one of us,lol

 

[SovereignGrace]

There are two kingdoms here now, God's and satan's. People fall into one or the other. As sinners, we were in satan's kingdom. As believers, we are now in God's kingdom.

 

[DHK]

God rules and he super rules NOW!... If the church (the saints of God) that now inhabit this earth were removed (to me the saints of God are the glue that holds our world together)... Then chaotic widespread evil would cover the earth unimaginable to the mind of anyone on this board and the Lord would destroy the evil men in it... Just like in Noah's day only this time with fire!... Brother Glen

Chaotic widespread evil covers this world now. I don't know if you travel much, or have been in other nations. If not perhaps you should. All over this world people are being put to death simply because they are Christian.
Let's see what was in the news just today:

Authorities have been harassing unofficial house churches in the Chinese province of Guangdong that haven't submitted to the Communist Party's Three-Self Association program.

http://www.worthynews.com/22901-china-campaign-vs-christians-spreads-guangdong
and

Fulani Muslim cattle herders have been burning the fields of Christian farmers in the northern regions of the Central African Republic... many Christian homes have been set ablaze in the process.

http://www.worthynews.com/22899-car-fulani-muslims-burn-christians-fields

We live in relative ease. However, even in the time that Obama has been in power Christianity in general has become more and more of a minority religion being slowly stripped of its freedoms, with students not even being allowed to pray "in Jesus name" in their schools now.

It used to be that when the name of Christ was blasphemed that folks in general would stand up against it. Not now. How much hue and cry went up against this travesty:
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2016/February/Church-Play-Depicts-Jesus-as-Transgender-Woman

Wickedness in this world? Yes, there is plenty of it, now! And if the rapture occurred right now I doubt if the world would notice the "influence" of Christianity very much at all. IMO, they are too much like the world, generally speaking.

 

[DHK]

There are two kingdoms here now, God's and satan's. People fall into one or the other. As sinners, we were in satan's kingdom. As believers, we are now in God's kingdom.

NO there is one kingdom here, and that is Satan's.
Jesus said very plainly. "My kingdom is not of this world." His kingdom is not here. It (right now) is a heavenly kingdom, or a spiritual kingdom. He does not reign on this earth, Satan does, and the Bible makes that very clear. Satan even offered Jesus the kingdoms of this world. Why? They were his to offer. He is the god of this world, and had that power. That is why Jesus could be tempted in his humanity. Otherwise it wouldn't have been a temptation.

Someday Jesus will come and defeat Satan and Satan will be cast into a bottomless pit. He will be bound.
Christ will also defeat all the enemies of Israel and set up His Kingdom on earth. Then He will reign here on earth. But not now. Satan rules on this earth. He is the god of this world. The scripture is very clear on that.

 

[DHK]

get a clue....small g......= not god....false god

That small god Satan still rules, or do you deny 2Cor.4:4 and the many other scriptures I recently referred to? What do you do with them, besides ignore them?

 

[tyndale1946]

Chaotic widespread evil covers this world now. I don't know if you travel much, or have been in other nations. If not perhaps you should. All over this world people are being put to death simply because they are Christian.
Let's see what was in the news just today:

http://www.worthynews.com/22901-china-campaign-vs-christians-spreads-guangdong
and

http://www.worthynews.com/22899-car-fulani-muslims-burn-christians-fields

We live in relative ease. However, even in the time that Obama has been in power Christianity in general has become more and more of a minority religion being slowly stripped of its freedoms, with students not even being allowed to pray "in Jesus name" in their schools now.

It used to be that when the name of Christ was blasphemed that folks in general would stand up against it. Not now. How much hue and cry went up against this travesty:
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2016/February/Church-Play-Depicts-Jesus-as-Transgender-Woman

Wickedness in this world? Yes, there is plenty of it, now! And if the rapture occurred right now I doubt if the world would notice the "influence" of Christianity very much at all. IMO, they are too much like the world, generally speaking.

Until they close your church down and put an armed guard saying you cannot worship in this church and take away your freedom to worship as you please... Chaotic widespread evil has not covered this world... I don't know about you DHK but last Sunday I went to church and worshipped the Lord!... Didn't you go?... Brother Glen

 

[SovereignGrace]

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To God’s holy people in Colossae, the faithful brothers and sisters in Christ: Grace and peace to you from God our Father. We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all God’s people— the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace. You learned it from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on our behalf, and who also told us of your love in the Spirit. For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you. We continually ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives, so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.[Colossians 1:1-14]

There is a kingdom(dominion) of darkness and a kingdom(dominion) of Light. Christians have been rescued from the darkness and now walk in the Light.

 

[SovereignGrace]

NO there is one kingdom here, and that is Satan's.
Jesus said very plainly. "My kingdom is not of this world." His kingdom is not here. It (right now) is a heavenly kingdom, or a spiritual kingdom. He does not reign on this earth, Satan does, and the Bible makes that very clear. Satan even offered Jesus the kingdoms of this world. Why? They were his to offer. He is the god of this world, and had that power. That is why Jesus could be tempted in his humanity. Otherwise it wouldn't have been a temptation.

Someday Jesus will come and defeat Satan and Satan will be cast into a bottomless pit. He will be bound.
Christ will also defeat all the enemies of Israel and set up His Kingdom on earth. Then He will reign here on earth. But not now. Satan rules on this earth. He is the god of this world. The scripture is very clear on that.

So are believers here now in satan's kingdom? Does he rule over those who truly worship/serve God?

 

[Internet Theologian]

Behold, to the LORD your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it.

Deuteronomy 10:14

...just not according to dhk, he found a verse to pit against this truth.