If there's only one kingdom here, and satan rules it, then even the believers are under his authority.
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The Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem. .....the Church
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Internet Theologian
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Just ponder what is being extrapolated here, one is seeing satan as 'god'. Passages that abound showing God as, well, God, and God of the universe, earth, heavenly hosts are pushed aside and flat out denied in order to enthrone satan in his rightful place (by dhk).
This interpretation making satan undue 'God' on earth is hugely amiss, and the intentions laid upon Paul and on getting there are an egregious error.
This interpretation making satan undue 'God' on earth is hugely amiss, and the intentions laid upon Paul and on getting there are an egregious error.
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Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Great point!
DHK
This evil is still in the world, that is true. That is why Jesus came into the world to begin with. He is subduing His enemies as we speak. This evil was spoken of since the cross-
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
This evil is still in the world, that is true. That is why Jesus came into the world to begin with. He is subduing His enemies as we speak. This evil was spoken of since the cross-
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
That depends on you. A good study of the First Epistle to the Corinthians is advisable here. There are such people as "Carnal Christians," who allow themselves to be both deceived and in part ruled by Satan (not indwelt). They follow the world and not Christ.
John wrote to Christians when he said:
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Peter wrote to believers when he said:
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
--It is Satan's world. He seeks to devout you (Christian). Therefore, resist him. This is a command to all Christians. We live in his world.
But there is victory. It is a spiritual victory:
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
--We cannot isolate verse four. We are overcomers because of our obedience (vs. 3) and our faith (verse 5).
But, DHK, you said satan was god of this world, and only his kingdom is here now. You said God's kingdom is not here now. So, by using logic, if satan's kingdom is the only kingdom, then we're under his authority.
Whose kingdom are the believers in right now, DHK?
Whose kingdom are the believers in right now, DHK?
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
So Jesus said His sheep follow Him, (John 10:27) yet you say they follow Satan?
In John 8:30 some are said to believe, then Jesus says they are of their father the devil, John 8:44, and shows them their father is not the Heavenly Father. Does this all mean they were saved (John 8:30) but followed Satan?
You need to heed this advice.
Oy vey!!
True believers are wise enough to not fall for satan's 'play pretties', Monsieur.
Agree.
Agreed.
Scripture easily refutes you and your ideology here.
No disagreement. However, greater is He that is in me than he who is in the world. He will never get those that belong to Christ.
Oui Monsieur.
We are overcomers because of Christ and not anything we've done. Please quit patting yourself on the back.
His ideologies are soooo pchizophrenic it's scary. It's all over the place.
DHK
Show where this verse uses the word.....rules......you say...."satan rules"...show it from this scripture
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
I know what this scripture teaches here....all of us know ,but you! Show it big boy! Do not suggest that I am denying scripture when you are clueless on the verse.
I tried to be nice but now you start with the ignorant questions/accusations.
Show where this verse uses the word.....rules......you say...."satan rules"...show it from this scripture
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
I know what this scripture teaches here....all of us know ,but you! Show it big boy! Do not suggest that I am denying scripture when you are clueless on the verse.
I and the others understand them ....you do not.
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Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.[2 Corinthians 4:1-4]
Satan is the 'god of this age' and has blinded unbelievers. However, God was in Christ to break the bounds(chains) satan had on us. So satan is the god of unbelievers and God Almighty is God of the believers.
Satan is the 'god of this age' and has blinded unbelievers. However, God was in Christ to break the bounds(chains) satan had on us. So satan is the god of unbelievers and God Almighty is God of the believers.
I did advise you to look at all the scriptures I had posted. And obviously you either do not understand them or simply ignore them. Take them all together as a whole.
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
--He is the god of this world.
Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
--He is the prince of the power of the air.
He is the spirit that NOW works in the children of disobedience.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
--Spiritual wickedness is in high places (Eph.2:2), the realm of Satan, the god of this world, the prince of the power of the air.
Furthermore, the whole world is under the control of the evil one that is Satan.
1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
(ASV) We know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in the evil one.
(ESV) We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
(WNT) We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the Evil one.
--It indeed is Satan's world, as the Word attests.
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
--He showed Jesus all the kingdom of the world, "his kingdoms," for he is the god of this world. The he offered what was his to Christ and tempted Him with them.
He is the the god of this world and rules over it.
He has blinded the unbelievers' eyes Monsieur. God has opened the eyes of the believers.
You have defeated yourself here. He works in the children of disobedience. The obedient ones have God working His purpose and His will in their lives.
Again, this is reference to him controlling unbelievers. Believers are under God's control.
We know we are God's children and the whole world lies in the power of the wicked one. I am part of the whole world, you are part of the whole world. Are you lying in the power of the wicked one? I sure am not. I have been taken from his clutches.
Welp, satan said it, so it must be truth. Satan can not tell the truth, as John 8:44 readily attests. If he truly owned them, he'd say he didn't. God owns this world, Monsieur.
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Where do you live? Do you have an address? Is it in this world?
(WNT) We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the Evil one.
--The world, that you live in, lies in the power of the Evil one, that is to say, Satan.
This was written to believers, not to unbelievers.
I haven't run I to that "many" yet, but there are many issues with holding that idea.
I made a coment several weeks ago that Scripture is God's revelation of himself. If God is immutable, and he is, then God revealed in the OT (however veiled) is the same God fully revealed in Christ. The Scripture spoken of in the Gospels is the Old Testament and it is impossible to understand the New divorced from the Old.
It seems to me that True Israel consisting of branches grafted in would take care of that objection.
Sent from my TARDIS
And your point? You still live in this world, and Satan is still the god of this world. You haven't made it to heaven yet!
What did Christ pray for his disciples?
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
--Christ never took his disciples out of this world, and you still live in this world as well.
But you ignore the fact that he is still the prince of the power of this air. Nothing that you say here can change that fact. He is the god of this world that you live in, and the prince of the power of the air. He conducts spiritual warfare against you, and without the power of Christ you cannot overcome him.
No, it is a battle. And that is why Paul wrote it and described it that way. If you don't battle you could lose (not salvation) but victory in Christ. Many Christians live in despair and do not have victory in their lives. They have laid their armor down. They have given up the battle. In fact recent statistics say that most Christians have:
Here is a quote I read from FaceBook. I have no reason to question the accuracy, but neither do I want to give the source (identity)
I heard a statistic this week and it has been on my mind ever since wondering what could be done to change the stats......A study was done and found out that 95% of Christians have never won another person to the Lord. Out of that 95%, 90% of them have never even witnessed to anyone else. How sad is that? Why aren't we fulfilling the Great Commission of going into all the world and preaching the Gospel?
--If true most have given up the fight and do not wear the helmut of salvation, or have their feet shod with preparation of the gospel of peace.
Christ prayed that his disciples be not removed from this world, and you have not been removed from this world. He called his disciples "the light of this world," "the salt of this world" for a reason.
Perhaps you are not a light because you don't consider yourself a part of this world, I don't know, but you have to be in Satan's world to be a light to Satan's darkened world which is why Jesus left us here.
God allowed Satan to have it, just as God allows Satan to have access to heaven; just as Satan is the accuser of the brethren.
Sometime during The Tribulation Period, before the Second Coming Satan will be cast out completely:
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
But for now he is the god of this world. He not only blinds the unbelievers, he deceives the believers when they do not walk close to Him.
Why did Peter write what he wrote?
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
Why did Paul write what he wrote?
Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
You confess to be ruled by satan.....we do not.
God rules this universe, not satan....
our citizenship is in heaven.....20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:....
you claim to be under satan
we have been translated out of his Kingdom....sorry you have not as you deny it exists,
This post besides the error is off topic
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