The Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem. .....the Church

[Iconoclast]

"SovereignGrace,

Does satan have power over you, Bro. DHK?

interesting

 

[SovereignGrace]

DHK,

Does satan have dominion(power) over you?

 

[SovereignGrace]

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions, for it is by grace you have been saved.[Ephesians 2:1-5]

Look at how the narrative reads. You were dead in transgressions and sins, when you followed the ruler of the kingdom of the air. As sinners, Satan was who we served. He was our 'god', and not God. He(Satan) works in those who are disobedient. Paul then said 'all of us also lived among them at one time.' Who are them? Those who are disobedient. We were gratifying the cravings of our flesh because Satan was 'lord/god' of our lives. We deserved God's wrath just as much as those who were disobedient because we, too, were being disobedient. It was only because of God's grace, love, and mercy and that He made us alive with Christ, and broke the kingdom rule of Satan that was once in our life, that transferred us to the kingdom of Christ.

God came and broke us free from satan's grasp. Not one demon can take one little one from His hand now. We serve a God far greater than Satan will ever be.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So Jesus said His sheep follow Him, (John 10:27) yet you say they follow Satan?

In John 8:30 some are said to believe, then Jesus says they are of their father the devil, John 8:44, and shows them their father is not the Heavenly Father. Does this all mean they were saved (John 8:30) but followed Satan?

DHK has presented us with an conundrum. He says that Satan is the 'god' of the whole world. Now, those who He has saved, He is their God. Jesus said “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."[Matthew 6:24] This is also found in Luke 16:13 as well.

Now, if Satan is the god of this world including everybody, and especially believers, would not his stance support us having two masters?

Satan is the 'god' of those who worship/serve him. Seeing that true believers only worship/serve God, Satan is not the 'god' we serve. Satan is the 'god' of the world, the world being sinners in that context.

 

[SovereignGrace]

“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.[John 15:18-19]

All believers live in the world until the day they die. They are confronted with the works of Satan on every hand. That does not mean, however, Satan is their 'god'. He is their adversary and seeks to devour them if he can. The reason why we are left in the world to battle Satan is to win people to Christ. He left us to be the light of the world, that everyone who believes in Christ Jesus will be saved. He left us to proclaim the gospel of Christ Jesus. As wicked as this world is now, imagine how much worse it would be if there were no saved peoples here.

Now, as the above passage states, we live in the world, but we no longer belong to the world. Christ has purchased us with His blood and transferred us from the kingdom of darkness(this kingdom is where all the unsaved reside here on earth) into the kingdom of Jesus Christ(this kingdom is where all true blood bought Christians dwell).

For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.[Colossians 1:13-14]

 

[SovereignGrace]

Just ponder what is being extrapolated here, one is seeing satan as 'god'. Passages that abound showing God as, well, God, and God of the universe, earth, heavenly hosts are pushed aside and flat out denied in order to enthrone satan in His rightful place (by dhk).

This interpretation making satan undue 'God' on earth is hugely amiss, and the intentions laid upon Paul and on getting there are an egregious error.

This one was missed? Cautious Whistling Wink Speechless

 

[Internet Theologian]

Where do you live? Do you have an address? Is it in this world?
(WNT) We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the Evil one.
--The world, that you live in, lies in the power of the Evil one, that is to say, Satan.
This was written to believers, not to unbelievers.

You're missing the most basic theme of 1 John. It is comparing we/they. We being those of us who are truly converted, and they being those who are lost. So when you say it was written to believers it doesn't mean this was written about believers.

The children of God are not living under the power of satan, although you are so ready and apt to give him credit and exalt him. The whole world here is not believers, it is referencing the lost and John has mentioned the lost much in this epistle.

That you aren't able to make the we/they distinction is astonishing and quite remarkable. You make many of your errors in this fashion, not understanding the Scriptures, then you bang these errors out on your keyboard for all to see.

 

[Internet Theologian]

This one was missed? Cautious Whistling Wink Speechless

He cannot refute it. He has avoided several postings.

 

[Internet Theologian]

One more time:

That depends on you. A good study of the First Epistle to the Corinthians is advisable here. There are such people as "Carnal Christians," who allow themselves to be both deceived and in part ruled by Satan (not indwelt). They follow the world and not Christ.

So Jesus said His sheep follow Him, (John 10:27) yet you say they follow Satan?

In John 8:30 some are said to believe, then Jesus says they are of their father the devil, John 8:44, and shows them their father is not the Heavenly Father. Does this all mean they were saved (John 8:30) but followed Satan?

 

[Internet Theologian]

DHK has presented us with an conundrum. He says that Satan is the 'god' of the whole world. Now, those who He has saved, He is their God. Jesus said “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."[Matthew 6:24] This is also found in Luke 16:13 as well.

Now, if Satan is the god of this world including everybody, and especially believers, would not his stance support us having two masters?

Satan is the 'god' of those who worship/serve him. Seeing that true believers only worship/serve God, Satan is not the 'god' we serve. Satan is the 'god' of the world, the world being sinners in that context.

Brother there is so much evidence against dhk it boggles the mind that he cannot discern it or see it. It is all over Scriptures and he is oblivious. It is beating ones head against a wall and seemingly a waste of time imho.

 

[DHK]

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions, for it is by grace you have been saved.[Ephesians 2:1-5]

Look at how the narrative reads. You were dead in transgressions and sins, when you followed the ruler of the kingdom of the air. As sinners, Satan was who we served. He was our 'god', and not God. He(Satan) works in those who are disobedient. Paul then said 'all of us also lived among them at one time.' Who are them? Those who are disobedient. We were gratifying the cravings of our flesh because Satan was 'lord/god' of our lives. We deserved God's wrath just as much as those who were disobedient because we, too, were being disobedient. It was only because of God's grace, love, and mercy and that He made us alive with Christ, and broke the kingdom rule of Satan that was once in our life, that transferred us to the kingdom of Christ.

God came and broke us free from satan's grasp. Not one demon can take one little one from His hand now. We serve a God far greater than Satan will ever be.

1. Are you stating that you are sinless?
2. Are you stating that because you sin no more Satan cannot and does not have any influence over you?
3. Are you stating that because your are sinless all the warnings that Peter, Paul, and John wrote about spiritual warfare, resisting the devil, fleeing the devil, standing against the wiles of the devil, etc.. were just useless words, and the Holy Spirit made a mistake when he inspired them because Satan has no more dominion over us when we were transferred into the kingdom of Christ.
4. Are you saying that none of these disciples ever had spiritual warfare with Satan and his demons even though they wrote about it? Perhaps they just lied??

 

[DHK]

You're missing the most basic theme of 1 John. It is comparing we/they. We being those of us who are truly converted, and they being those who are lost. So when you say it was written to believers it doesn't mean this was written about believers.

Name the unbelievers this epistle (I John) was written to).
It was, all of it, written for the benefit of believers.
And that includes 1John 5:19.

1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
(WNT) We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the Evil one.

What benefit does this verse have for the believer. It informs him that he is in the world that lies in the power of the Evil one, that is Satan There is only one world.

The children of God are not living under the power of satan, although you are so ready and apt to give him credit and exalt him. The whole world here is not believers, it is referencing the lost and John has mentioned the lost much in this epistle.

There is only one world. It lies in darkness. It is ruled by the prince of the power of the air, by the rulers of the darkness of this world, with spiritual wickedness in high places. The whole world lies in the power of Satan. The sooner you learn that the better off you will be. The weapons of are warfare are not carnal but spiritual.

Consider:
2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
--Can you honestly admit to those on this board and all who read it, that you bring into captivity every imagination and every thought that ever crosses your mind to the obedience of Christ.
It is a battle. The battle is in the mind and Satan attacks it every day. You don't always win.

That you aren't able to make the we/they distinction is astonishing and quite remarkable. You make many of your errors in this fashion, not understanding the Scriptures, then you bang these errors out on your keyboard for all to see.

That you cannot admit that Satan influences you and some of your decisions is amazing.
Are you sinless? Are you willing to admit that you are in a battle with Satan, the god of this world?

 

[DHK]

One more time:

So Jesus said His sheep follow Him, (John 10:27) yet you say they follow Satan?

There are some posts made on this very thread that would not have been made had the posters been following the advice of the prompting of the Holy Spirit. Therefore are they giving into the desires of the Holy Spirit or the desires of Satan? You tell me.

In John 8:30 some are said to believe, then Jesus says they are of their father the devil, John 8:44, and shows them their father is not the Heavenly Father. Does this all mean they were saved (John 8:30) but followed Satan?

You should be able to figure that one out on your own.

 

[Iconoclast]

Brother there is so much evidence against dhk it boggles the mind that he cannot discern it or see it. It is all over Scriptures and he is oblivious. It is beating ones head against a wall and seemingly a waste of time imho.

Did you ever consider

There are some posts made on this very thread that would not have been made had the posters been following the advice of the prompting of the Holy Spirit. Therefore are they giving into the desires of the Holy Spirit or the desires of Satan? You tell me.

You should be able to figure that one out on your own.

This thread is about Zion and Jerusalem.
Not doctrines of devils maybe satan will loosen his grip on you long enough to get back to the OP

 

[Internet Theologian]

Name the unbelievers this epistle (I John) was written to). It was, all of it, written for the benefit of believers. And that includes 1John 5:19.

The epistle speaks of the lost and compares these to true converts living here in the domain of the kingdom of God, whilst the lost (the whole world) lieth in wickedness. That is how it is beneficial to believers, describing the converted nature of those in the kingdom of heaven, and the unconverted nature of the lost.

But again, you just don't get it and are in error. Daily.

 

[Internet Theologian]

There are some posts made on this very thread that would not have been made had the posters been following the advice of the prompting of the Holy Spirit. Therefore are they giving into the desires of the Holy Spirit or the desires of Satan? You tell me.

You should be able to figure that one out on your own.

When one practices lying, who are they following? When one practices sin, to whom does this person belong? How does 1 John answer this? What does it conclude about those who practice these things and by implication are well known for this?

 

[Internet Theologian]

You should be able to figure that one out on your own.

Oh, and I have. Now tell me to whom did these belong? They 'believed' (John 8:30) so were they saved? Were they delivered from the domain of darkness to the Kingdom of Christ?

You cannot answer as it will expose your error even further?

 

[Internet Theologian]

One more time DHK. Answer the questions if you can handle the heat:

So Jesus said His sheep follow Him, (John 10:27) yet you say they follow Satan?

In John 8:30 some are said to believe, then Jesus says they are of their father the devil, John 8:44, and shows them their father is not the Heavenly Father. Does this all mean they were saved (John 8:30) but followed Satan?

 

[DHK]

When one practices lying, who are they following? When one practices sin, to whom does this person belong? How does 1 John answer this? What does it conclude about those who practice these things and by implication are well known for this?

Each person knows their own heart. But right here you have just made a false accusation. The Holy Spirit doesn't do that. I never said anything about lying. You just did, falsely accusing me. The Holy Spirit doesn't slander, libel, etc. He speaks with grace. His fruit is the fruit of the Holy Spirit to the edification of others.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Each person knows their own heart.

And?

But right here you have just made a false accusation.

Where is the false accusation? Show. All of us. Quote it.

The Holy Spirit doesn't do that.

Ya think?

I never said anything about lying. You just did, falsely accusing me.

That's right, I said something about lying.

Now why would you think I falsely accused YOU of lying? Conscience?

The Holy Spirit doesn't slander, libel, etc. He speaks with grace. His fruit is the fruit of the Holy Spirit to the edification of others.

Which is why many of us wonder as to why there are so many lies laid upon so many Calvinist brothers.