1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The high cost of a believer rejecting Jesus Christ

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by icthus, Apr 13, 2005.

Top Posters
Page 7 of 10
  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    He answered this in Eph1 ... that we should be the praise of his glory. It was about him glorifying himself.
     
    #121 Pastor Larry, Apr 17, 2005
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    As Russell pointed out, it is the fall that ruined God's creation and marred the image of God. God didn't create junk.

    Calvinism magnifies teh wondrous glory of a God who saves sinners. I am not sure how that is a slap in teh face, or an insult and blasphemy.
     
    #122 Pastor Larry, Apr 17, 2005
  3. icthus

    icthus New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bacically, if God did not see anything worthwhile in us to save, then He would not have even considered redeeming mankind.

    Man, even though marred through the fall, was not a complete write-off, as we still bear some of the "image of God" in us. It is ONLY that man was made in the image of God, what we could ever be considered as "worthy" of being saved. Nothing in us of ourselves deserves salvation. We are all "worthy" of eternal damnation, but the Lord Who is rich in mercy, extended to all without exception, the hope of eternal salvation through the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. If there is any boasting to do, let us do it in the Lord Jesus, that He might get ALL of the glory that rightly belongs to Him.
     
    #123 icthus, Apr 17, 2005
  4. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    He answered this in Eph1 ... that we should be the praise of his glory. It was about him glorifying himself. </font>[/QUOTE]Do you not agree that is a value that God sees in man?
     
    #124 Wes Outwest, Apr 17, 2005
  5. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can you tell me what man was like before the fall and then how you see man as being after the fall?
     
    #125 Wes Outwest, Apr 17, 2005
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not sure what you mean. God saved man in order to glorify himself. We receive the benefits of that. But God does not save us because we are worth something. We are in t God's image even though that image has been marred by sin. That sin nature is passed down all the way from ADam, by imputation.
     
    #126 Pastor Larry, Apr 17, 2005
  7. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    If God saves man FOR ANY PURPOSE he is putting value in those whom he is saving!

    If he saved man to have "slave labor" then he values man as a slave.

    If he saved man to be a worshipper, then he values man as a worshipper.

    God values man enough to provide his only begotten son to enable man to bypass death and have everlasting life.

    Can't you see that for God man has intrinsic value?
     
    #127 Wes Outwest, Apr 17, 2005
  8. icthus

    icthus New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not sure what you mean. God saved man in order to glorify himself. We receive the benefits of that. But God does not save us because we are worth something. We are in t God's image even though that image has been marred by sin. That sin nature is passed down all the way from ADam, by imputation. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeh Larry, are you saying that God saved us though He did not think that we are "worth it"? I ask again, how can this be possible as, even though we are fallen, yet we have not "lost" the "Image of God" that man was created in. Man is the high-point in God's creation, because He made us in His Image. Man fell because of disobeying God, but God, whose love is very strong for man, already had planned to redeem us, because He sees our "worth in Jesus Christ". It is true, that in a sense we are worthless sinners who deserve eternal punishment. But, because of who man is, that God even considered to redeem him. Remember that Scripture, "what is man that you are mindful of him?" (Heb.2.6). Where the Greek "mimnesko", here means, "to have care for" Because God "cares" about man, He chose to Redeem him. If He did not care about us, then He surely would have left us.
     
    #128 icthus, Apr 17, 2005
  9. RodnStaff

    RodnStaff New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did God plan the "fall?"
     
    #129 RodnStaff, Apr 18, 2005
  10. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your utter lack of Scripture has certainly made it difficult to see that. But I am willing to look at any passage you put forth.
     
    #130 Pastor Larry, Apr 18, 2005
  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think I have been clear that the point of salvation is his worth, not ours.

    I think he absolutely cares for us. But he didn't save us because we were worth it, because we had value to him. We were sinners, and the image of God was marred by sin.

    But you point out an interesting conflict it seems. YOu say that before man fell, God had already planned to redeem him. Apparently, you believe that Adam was going to fall and had no choice in the matter. Else, why would God plan to do something that he didn't know was necessary?
     
    #131 Pastor Larry, Apr 18, 2005
  12. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Plan is not the word I would use for it. He certainly ordained it, but he is not in any way the author of sin. He did not make Adam fall.
     
    #132 Pastor Larry, Apr 18, 2005
  13. icthus

    icthus New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your utter lack of Scripture has certainly made it difficult to see that. But I am willing to look at any passage you put forth. </font>[/QUOTE]Larry, the short answer is that we are still in "God's Image" (see 1 Corinthians 11:7, where the Greek "huparcho", is not strictly in the "present tense" as suggested by most lexicons; the "imperfect"). We were created in God's Image, then, even after the fall this Image is has not been destroyed.
     
    #133 icthus, Apr 18, 2005
  14. icthus

    icthus New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry, it shoud read, "but the imperfect"
     
    #134 icthus, Apr 18, 2005
  15. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not aware of any who thinks we are not still in the image of God. But the image of God in man has been marred. Therefore, your "short answer" is no answer at all.

    [ April 18, 2005, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
    #135 Pastor Larry, Apr 18, 2005
  16. icthus

    icthus New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not aware of any who thinks we are not sil in the image of God. But the image of God in man has been marred. Therefore, your "short answer" is no answer at all. </font>[/QUOTE]Larry, it is because we are STILL in the Image of God, that God considered us "worth" being saved. This does NOT mean that it is anything of ourselves.
     
    #136 icthus, Apr 18, 2005
  17. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is entirely different. God does save only those who are in his image, and he loves his image in man. But our sin makes us worthless. I think you are not fully interacting with the effects of sin in the human life. I think you are underestimating just how bad it is. And I think that shows in a number of areas, such as the human will, desires, thinking, etc.
     
    #137 Pastor Larry, Apr 18, 2005
  18. icthus

    icthus New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, Larry, in fact it agree with what you say here
     
    #138 icthus, Apr 18, 2005
  19. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    :confused:
     
    #139 Pastor Larry, Apr 18, 2005
  20. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    But our sins have been atoned and are no longer charged against us because His only begotten son Paid for them. However, if we are not repentant of our sins, what evidence do we show to God that we have been changed?
     
    #140 Wes Outwest, Apr 18, 2005
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 7 of 10
Loading...