The high cost of a believer rejecting Jesus Christ

This is true for beleivers. It is not true for unbelievers, as we have shown from Scripture.

 

The atonement is "for" their sins, in the sense that it is sufficient. It is not, nor can it be, "for" their sins in the sense of payment, because for God to accept payment for sins including the sin of unbelief, and then to send people ot hell for those same sins for another payment would be unjust. We do not serve an unjust God. If Christ paid for sins, then those people for whose sins he paid will be in heaven for all eternity. They will not go to hell.

 

This is true for beleivers. It is not true for unbelievers, as we have shown from Scripture. </font>[/QUOTE]Even so, the sins of unbelievers have by the same atonement been paid for! Atonement for the sins of the world is atonement for the sins of the world regardless of the faith condition of the human. It cannot be any other way or YOU make the atonement less than God made it!

You cannot say the rain that falls on the just and unjust alike is not just as effective for the unjust as it is for the just! It simply don't work that way!

The same goes for God's Grace which is God's behavior to all mankind alike. The Just and the unjust alike are in God's grace, regardless of their faith condition.

You seem to think that Grace, Atonement and Mercy give the believer an advantage but you are quite simply wrong!

The advantage for the BELIEVER rests in SALVATION alone! ONLY those with FAITH IN GOD are saved!

 

Would you consider for once that sins that have been atoned do not send a person to hell! PERIOD!

The only reason a person is sent to hell is because that person lacks faith in GOD! End of Story!

 

I have considered that, and have rejected it as unbiblical based on Scriptural teaching.

Assuming that is true (and that Scripture is wrong), lack of faith is disobedience to God's command, and is therefore Sin. If all sin has been paid for, as you claim, then unbelief was paid for and people to do not go to hell for unbelief. If people go to hell for unbelief, then all sin was not paid for.

 

I probably already have, but I am not sure what two texts you are talking about.

There are many Calvinists that agree with Dabney and many who don't. I disagree with him for this reason. The parallelism is the text suggests that whatever Christ did for us, he also did for the world. But I am not immovable on that. The most I would say is that 1 John 2:2 is a verse that can go either way.

I believe Christ's death is sufficient for all sins for all time, and in taht sense, that he died for all men without exception. All participate in teh blessings of the atonement to some degree, but not all to a saving degree.

 

Well said.

Your points are clear, obvious, to the point and impossible to refute. It is good exegesis to actually "believe" what the text says - and you have done that.

I can only say "amen" to your post.

I would also like to add that Matt 18 (last half of chapter) makes another compelling case in harmony with your excellent highlight of the truths in Hebrews 10.

In Matt 18 we see the lesson of "Forgiveness REVOKED" and it ends with Christ saying "SO shall my Father DO TO EACH OF YOU if you do not forgive your neighbor from your heart".

Notice that the "motivation" for forgiveness in the Matt 18 story is out of GRATITUDE for the full, complete and free forgiveness you have received!

If the slave in MAtt 18 was STILL UNFORGIVEN - then he had no BASIS to forgive others.

In Christ,

Bob

 

I have considered that, and have rejected it as unbiblical based on Scriptural teaching.

Assuming that is true (and that Scripture is wrong), lack of faith is disobedience to God's command, and is therefore Sin. If all sin has been paid for, as you claim, then unbelief was paid for and people to do not go to hell for unbelief. If people go to hell for unbelief, then all sin was not paid for. </font>[/QUOTE]It only becomes God's command to those who believe in God! It is only when you know that you are violating a command of God that it becomes sin!

 

I have already refuted them with clear exegetical evidence, thus showing that they are not "impossible to refute."

 

Really?? Why would God command someone to do something they are already doing? That doesn't make any sense, Wes. You know that. Come on ...

Scripture teaches no such thing. Sin is sin, whether you know it or not. Sin is defined by lack of conformity to God, not by knowledge.

 

BTW - 1 John 2:2 goes perfectly with 1Tim 4:10

10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

In 1 John 2:2 it is "For He is the Atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD".

The emphasis both writers make on the SAVED - the SAINTS - the CHOSEN - the ELECT being INSIDE that larger group "WHOLE WORLD" for whom Christ died - is so obvious, so blatant, so clear, so striking, that it is "impossible to miss".

Those who reject that clear teaching from God's Word, do it "in spite" of these texts NOT "because of them"!!

How much simpler just to trust the Word of God as it reads.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob,

If you think we to just trust the text as it reads, then do you accept 2 Thess 2:13 where it says that God chose us to salvation from the beginning?

I accept both of texts you mention, and have discussed both of them at length, showing how they fit perfectly with the Bible's teaching that Calvinists believe. There is no conflict there.

 

Do you punish your children and Grandchildren for doing what you have not told them is wrong?

Neither does God!

 

If you get pulled over for speeding, you are guilty, whether you know what the speed limit is or not. As they say, Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

The difference is that God has told us what is right and wrong. He gave us his word. There is no doubt but that belief in God and Christ is the obligation of every man. That is why Rom 1 says they are without excuse.

 

You don't get a driver's license unless you know the law!

 

When did you first become aware of God's law relative to sin?
Was it before you could walk and talk? Or was it after you had developed some communications skills and could actually hear the word of God!

 

Yes, but when you are driving on a road, you might miss a speed limit sign.

We are aware of it when we begin to possess understanding. There is no particular time. But even before that, we are still sinners because of being born after the likeness of Adam. Our sinfulness does not depend on our knowledge of it, but rather on its inherent nature as sin.