Wes Outwest
New Member
OSAS, Why don't you think man is worth redeeming......GOD DOES!
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The high cost of a believer rejecting Jesus Christ
- Thread starter icthus
- Start date
those that have their names written in the lambs book of life also have their names written in the book of life. just because there is mention of believers being written in the book of life, doesn't mean these same believers can have their names blotted out of it. You won't find a verse that says you can have your name blotted from the lambs book of life. that is an important thing to notice.
I
ILUVLIGHT
Guest
Hi Whetstone;
I've only seen one book of life in the Bible would you care to show a refference of book, Chapter, and verse.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike
That's really strange. My Bible never say's anything about the Lambs book of life. I wonder why? Could it be that this is a term used by preachers because, it is owned by the Lamb and the statement is not necessarily is scriptural.
I've only seen one book of life in the Bible would you care to show a refference of book, Chapter, and verse.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The doctrine of the ‘Perseverance of the Saints’ or the ‘Security of the True Believer’ is one that is cherished by most Baptists. I am not sure which term most accurately expresses the doctrine. It is certain that Saints will not be able to persevere without the active support of God. The statement from the 1677 [1689] Baptist Confession of Faith [Lumpkin, Baptist Confessions of Faith, page 272] expresses both thoughts as shown in the following excerpt:
“Those whom God hath accepted in the Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit, and given the precious faith of His elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and calling of God are without repentance, (whence He still begets and nourishish them in Faith, Repentance, Love, Joy, Hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality).”
Those whom God has accepted in the Beloved and has effectually called and sanctified by His spirit, and given the precious faith of His elect, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace but they will certainly persevere in that state until the end and be eternally saved.
This is because the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [He will never change His mind.] and therefore He continues to beget [create] and nourish them in faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit which lead to immortality.
Many Baptists frequently use the term ‘once saved, always saved’ to express the doctrine of ‘Perseverance of the Saints’ or ‘Security of the Believer’. This expression, though true, trivializes the idea that ‘true believers’ or Saints will persevere. One extreme of this viewpoint is that people can walk the aisle, often at a very early age, ‘accept Jesus as Savior’, then for the remainder of their life show no evidence that they are a ‘new creation in Jesus Christ’ [2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:10] and yet be a child of God. Such a view is directly contrary to the clear teaching of Scripture [1 John 1:3-6] and may be a consequence of the belief that ‘saving faith’ is mere intellectual assent to the fact of the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. John F. MacArthur in his book Ashamed of the Gospel addresses the fallacy of this reasoning, showing that if Jesus Christ is not one’s Lord He is not their Savior.
Scripture which show that true believers are kept eternally secure by the power of God are as follows:
John 6:35-40, KJV
35. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 10:27-30, KJV
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
30. I and [my] Father are one.
Romans 8:28-30, KJV
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
The above passages clearly prove that that believers are kept eternally secure by the power of God. Note particularly in Romans 8:30 above that those God called he also glorified. There is no way that anyone can justify the belief that one who is truly saved can ever lose that Salvation.
“Those whom God hath accepted in the Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit, and given the precious faith of His elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and calling of God are without repentance, (whence He still begets and nourishish them in Faith, Repentance, Love, Joy, Hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality).”
Those whom God has accepted in the Beloved and has effectually called and sanctified by His spirit, and given the precious faith of His elect, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace but they will certainly persevere in that state until the end and be eternally saved.
This is because the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [He will never change His mind.] and therefore He continues to beget [create] and nourish them in faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit which lead to immortality.
Many Baptists frequently use the term ‘once saved, always saved’ to express the doctrine of ‘Perseverance of the Saints’ or ‘Security of the Believer’. This expression, though true, trivializes the idea that ‘true believers’ or Saints will persevere. One extreme of this viewpoint is that people can walk the aisle, often at a very early age, ‘accept Jesus as Savior’, then for the remainder of their life show no evidence that they are a ‘new creation in Jesus Christ’ [2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:10] and yet be a child of God. Such a view is directly contrary to the clear teaching of Scripture [1 John 1:3-6] and may be a consequence of the belief that ‘saving faith’ is mere intellectual assent to the fact of the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. John F. MacArthur in his book Ashamed of the Gospel addresses the fallacy of this reasoning, showing that if Jesus Christ is not one’s Lord He is not their Savior.
Scripture which show that true believers are kept eternally secure by the power of God are as follows:
John 6:35-40, KJV
35. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 10:27-30, KJV
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
30. I and [my] Father are one.
Romans 8:28-30, KJV
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
The above passages clearly prove that that believers are kept eternally secure by the power of God. Note particularly in Romans 8:30 above that those God called he also glorified. There is no way that anyone can justify the belief that one who is truly saved can ever lose that Salvation.
That's really strange. My Bible never say's anything about the Lambs book of life. I wonder why? Could it be that this is a term used by preachers because, it is owned by the Lamb and the statement is not necessarily is scriptural.
I've only seen one book of life in the Bible would you care to show a refference of book, Chapter, and verse.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Because I did not word it 'the book of life of the lamb' is inconsequential. stay on topic and stop being so devisive.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Be careful whetstone are you saying there are 2 books of Life......dont add to Scripture
This blotting out threat, do you think God uses fear to keep us in check sometimes, I think maybe so. Jude also talks about showing mercy mixed with fear.
David
<°)))><
This blotting out threat, do you think God uses fear to keep us in check sometimes, I think maybe so. Jude also talks about showing mercy mixed with fear.
David
<°)))><
David Michael Harris
Active Member
'You are WORTH more than many sparrows'
'Greater love has no man than this, to lay down ones life for his friends'.
Yes, we do not deserve it though!
David
<°)))><
'Greater love has no man than this, to lay down ones life for his friends'.
Yes, we do not deserve it though!
David
<°)))><
If you look at Exodus 32 the account of the children of Israel making the "molten calf, and they said, these are they gods, O Israel, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt" (v.4). This was indeed a very great sin, for which the Israelites paid heavely (v.35). Moses then sought to "make atonement" for this great sin which they had committed (v30). Moses then pleads with the Lord for the sin of the people, during which he says: "yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin-; and if not, bolt me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the Lord said to Moses, whosoever has sinned against Me, him will I blot out of my book" (verses 32-33)
This sin which the children of Israel had done here, is rebellion from Yahweh, and a rejection of His sole authority and power. They had in effect rejected God who had brought them out of Egypt, and accepted that it was the golden image of the calf that was their deliverer. For the Lord says: "they have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, these be they gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt" (v.8)
We would be very foolish to assume, that what the Lord said here about blotting out their names from Hid Book, that He could not do to us, because this is in the Old Testament. Do you suppose that God has changed His position on those who wilfully reject Him? For what purpose did Christ warn about not "overcoming" in Revelation 3:5, where He says that those who did overcome, "I will not blot out his name out of the book of life". A statement that only has meaning if it were true that those who do not overcome, would have their names blotted out. There is no point in this warning, if it were not possible. I do NOT accept that these warnings are not real.
This sin which the children of Israel had done here, is rebellion from Yahweh, and a rejection of His sole authority and power. They had in effect rejected God who had brought them out of Egypt, and accepted that it was the golden image of the calf that was their deliverer. For the Lord says: "they have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, these be they gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt" (v.8)
We would be very foolish to assume, that what the Lord said here about blotting out their names from Hid Book, that He could not do to us, because this is in the Old Testament. Do you suppose that God has changed His position on those who wilfully reject Him? For what purpose did Christ warn about not "overcoming" in Revelation 3:5, where He says that those who did overcome, "I will not blot out his name out of the book of life". A statement that only has meaning if it were true that those who do not overcome, would have their names blotted out. There is no point in this warning, if it were not possible. I do NOT accept that these warnings are not real.
Does the Bible ever use such language when speaking of unbelievers? Maybe so, but I can't think of anywhere that it does. It does say that we were Christ's enemies when He laid down His life for us.Originally posted by David Michael Harris:
'You are WORTH more than many sparrows'
'Greater love has no man than this, to lay down ones life for his friends'.
Yes, we do not deserve it though!
David
<°)))><
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Exactly, while we were still sinners...
Do you know the Elect? ( answer this question please ) I was once as many people as are now.
David
<°)))><
Edited are as to as are..why....?
"The calling of the Elect has not finished...it is wrong to view life in the light or shady light of Calvinism". dmh15/04/05
Maybe that will go down in history
David
<°)))><
Do you know the Elect? ( answer this question please ) I was once as many people as are now.
David
<°)))><
Edited are as to as are..why....?
"The calling of the Elect has not finished...it is wrong to view life in the light or shady light of Calvinism". dmh15/04/05
Maybe that will go down in history
David
<°)))><
Of course I don't know all of the elect - did Jesus? He is the one you quoted. I just think it is dangerous to take what Jesus says about those who believe in Him and try to apply it to those who do not believe in Him.
Does the worth that you and I have as believers come from God's work in us, or was the worth there all along? I'm just asking for Scripture that says that it was there all along.
Of course I don't know all of the elect - did Jesus? He is the one you quoted. I just think it is dangerous to take what Jesus says about those who believe in Him and try to apply it to those who do not believe in Him.
Does the worth that you and I have as believers come from God's work in us, or was the worth there all along? I'm just asking for Scripture that says that it was there all along. </font>[/QUOTE]What do you mean "did Jesus" know who the "elect" are? Do you now believe that He did/does?
David Michael Harris
Active Member
No, I was asking you ( generic )...sorry but I thought the grammer was ok...I will check
Bless you
David <°)))><
Bless you
David <°)))><
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Will anybody argue this?Originally posted by David Michael Harris:
Be careful whetstone are you saying there are 2 books of Life......dont add to Scripture
This blotting out threat, do you think God uses fear to keep us in check sometimes, I think maybe so. Jude also talks about showing mercy mixed with fear.
David
<°)))><
David
<°)))><
David Michael Harris
Active Member
What do you mean "did Jesus" know
You sorry people, I was asking you not Christ.
Like I have anything to say to Christ but "forgive me "
David
<°)))><
You sorry people, I was asking you not Christ.
Like I have anything to say to Christ but "forgive me "
David
<°)))><
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Of course I don't know all of the elect - did Jesus? He is the one you quoted. I just think it is dangerous to take what Jesus says about those who believe in Him and try to apply it to those who do not believe in Him.
Does the worth that you and I have as believers come from God's work in us, or was the worth there all along? I'm just asking for Scripture that says that it was there all along. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes I think Jesus knew, the Elect. After all He died for them whom He knew, and will reject those that He does not know.
Great Shepherd of the sheep. = Jesus
David
<°)))><