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The Idea Of Free Will

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Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Now you are just trying so hard to make me mad Hehehehehehehehehe! You really are funny David. You fail in debate everytime you try.You do seem somewhat similar to the Pharisee's your self. Even you can hear God. hehehehehehehehe!
MB
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I fail in debate? I am the only one of the two of us actually debating and putting forth evidence. You just put forth nonsense posts like this because you can't actually come back with arguments that defeat mine. You don't have arguments that defeat the biblical viewpoint.
 
C

Calminian

Well-Known Member
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davidtaylorjr said:
The idea that it is the will of man that chooses whether or not to be saved is false.

The Idea of Free Will

You need to look no further than John chapter 1. It states that it is not the will of the flesh but of God.
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I actually agree with this. God chose to save ungodly believers, by his own will and choice, and allow ungodly believers to perish.

He didn't have to. He could have let believers perish also, for their sin, but he chose to save them. The choice was 100% his and obligation free.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
davidtaylorjr said:
I fail in debate? I am the only one of the two of us actually debating and putting forth evidence. You just put forth nonsense posts like this because you can't actually come back with arguments that defeat mine. You don't have arguments that defeat the biblical viewpoint.
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Then why is it you even bother. You are going to believe the opposite of everything I have shown you. I bother because we all need the truth and you refuse to accept it. I've never said Salvation isn't of God this your accusation not mine I just make the point that Salvation is not against anyone's will. It is not forced on us we can rebel until the cows come home and as long as we do we will not be saved. God saves us according to our faith not if we don't have any.
MB
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
MB said:
You are going to believe the opposite of everything I have shown you.
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It's funny you think you have shown me something. All you have shown me is that you cherry pick verses and don't understand the concept of context.

MB said:
I've never said Salvation isn't of God this your accusation not mine I just make the point that Salvation is not against anyone's will.
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When have I ever said that salvation is against someone's will?
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
davidtaylorjr said:
It's funny you think you have shown me something. All you have shown me is that you cherry pick verses and don't understand the concept of context.


When have I ever said that salvation is against someone's will?
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Well this is what Calvinist claim.you do claim to be a Calvinist don't you?
MB
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Well this is what Calvinist claim.you do claim to be a Calvinist don't you?
MB
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No. I claim to be a Bible Believing Christian. As I have told you before I do not hold allegiance to Calvin as there are things he and I disagree on. I pledge allegiance to Christ and his Word.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
davidtaylorjr said:
No. I claim to be a Bible Believing Christian. As I have told you before I do not hold allegiance to Calvin as there are things he and I disagree on. I pledge allegiance to Christ and his Word.
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Praise God for that.
Freewill is not about saving our selves. We could never do that no matter how hard we try. Free will means we want to be saved. Yet it is Christ who saves us. I thought you'd understand if you read acts 16.:31 You believed and your saved. I did too.
MB
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
davidtaylorjr said:
And nobody, without the Spirit changing them, has any.
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What the Holy Spirit does is convict you of your sins.In a way you could say that this action of the holy Spirit does change our minds. He does not save us only Christ saves and His saving us is regeneration.
MB
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Praise God for that.
Freewill is not about saving our selves. We could never do that no matter how hard we try. Free will means we want to be saved. Yet it is Christ who saves us. I thought you'd understand if you read acts 16.:31 You believed and your saved. I did too.
MB
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Every Calvinist I know affirms this.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
davidtaylorjr said:
Every Calvinist I know affirms this.
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I don't know any who do believe that God saves those who believe first.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

In the process of Salvation we first are justified by the faith of Jesus Christ . Yet we believe in Jesus Christ, That we might be justified by the faith of Christ
Might does not mean we will be saved but only might be saved. our faith must be tried first. We aren't save just because we say we have faith. Our faith has to be genuine.
MB
 
A

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Idea Of Free Will

If you know a lawyer who offers that service, give me the name.
 
M

MartyF

Well-Known Member
Iconoclast said:
MB, .

Can you show any Calvinist who believes this? I do not think you can.
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You do.

1. God chose before time began that Iconoclast would be saved.

2. Since God had already chosen Iconoclast to be saved, Iconoclast had to believe. There was no choice made by Iconoclaust.

3. Sometime after this Iconoclast is saved. (Not really wanting to quibble over something as silly as regeneration before or after belief or other stupid stuff.)

Regardless, all Calvinists believe that the choice by God to save them has occurred before belief. Saying that salvation occurred after belief is just the standard arguing of semantics.
 
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