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The Insanity of the "right" to have guns! II

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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

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John of Japan said:
You missed the point. I was not writing in that post about firearms per se, but about the God given right to self defense. I believe I proved that pretty handily. If not, then show me where I'm wrong, don't just say "You're wrong." Why do not those passages prove a right to self defense?

As to what the weapon of self defense is, that depends on the situation. My weapon of choice is either my hands and feet (I hold black belts in various martial arts) or an actual sharp sword. Your thread is basically about guns, but why single them out? What is different about guns from other weapons of self defense?
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WHY the need to use any weapons to defend onself or family? This is the American mind-set, which is rather foolish.

What good is your "black belts in various martial arts", if someone has a machine gun that fires off hundreds of rounds in a miniute? Before you can get your feet off the ground, you will be dead!

I used guns, because the original thread was with links to two shootings in the US in the past week, which has already been followed by yet another!

IF firearms, or any other means, actually works, then the death rate should be much lower, which is the whole purpose of this, I assume, or to the Americans just like shooting people for the sake of it?
 
John of Japan

John of Japan

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SavedByGrace said:
WHY the need to use any weapons to defend onself or family?
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I gave Scripture proving that self defense is Biblical. Don't just disagree, prove me wrong from those Scriptures.

For example, was Jesus wrong to violently use a makeshift weapon to clear the criminals out of His Father's house? You refuse to address this. Isn't Jesus our model?

This is the American mind-set, which is rather foolish.
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Edited in. Just thought about this. No, it's not just the "American mind-set." Where do you think the Asian martial arts came from, anyway?

Karate--From Fukien Province in China, to Japan through Okinawa.
Jujutsu--All over Japan.
Judo--developed into a sport from Jujutsu
Chinese martial arts (popularly called Kung Fu; also Wushu and Ch'uan Fa)--from over 2000 years in the most populous country in the world. There are over 200 styles, ranging from Tai Chi Ch'uan and the other "internal" arts to Hung Gar and many more "external" martial arts
Indonesia--Penjak Silat
Philippines-- Arnis, Eskrima, and Kali
I could list many more.

Then there are the "Western" martial arts of boxing and wrestling, going back thousands of years. These arts are eminently suitable for self defense. Even the "mixed martial arts" (MMA, UFC) are descended from wrestling (catch-as-catch-can) among and boxing, along with the Asian arts. (I could easily defend myself with just wrestling, and have done so). Many Brits practice these arts. ;)


What good is your "black belts in various martial arts", if someone has a machine gun that fires off hundreds of rounds in a miniute? Before you can get your feet off the ground, you will be dead!
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This sounds like the Japanese man who thought there were shootouts all the time in every neighborhood in America. Machine guns are very, very strictly regulated in the US by the federal government, unlike handguns. Like my Japanese friend, maybe you've been watching too many American movies. :p

At any rate, the martial arts are not designed to fight a machine gun. But if someone comes at me with a knife or pistol or club, I'll take it away and hold him for the police.

I used guns, because the original thread was with links to two shootings in the US in the past week, which has already been followed by yet another!

IF firearms, or any other means, actually works, then the death rate should be much lower, which is the whole purpose of this, I assume, or to the Americans just like shooting people for the sake of it?
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You are still not answering Scriptural arguments for self defense. The means of self defense (hands, feet, knife, sword, club, gun, nunchaku, sai, quarterstaff) are secondary. If we have a God given right to self defense, and the law allows it, we may use any of these weapons.
 
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Squire Robertsson

Squire Robertsson

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Winner, winner chicken dinner.
John of Japan said:
SNIP
You are still not answering Scriptural arguments for self defense. The means of self defense (hands, feet, knife, sword, club, gun, nunchaku, sai, quarterstaff) are secondary. If we have a God given right to self defense, and the law allows it, we may use any of these weapons.
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John of Japan

John of Japan

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CalTech said:
Greetings,

This is a good subject to put forward. I was raised in a family that had various types of guns for hunting purposes. Matter of fact my father gave me a 16 Gage shotgun for my 16th birthday, I used it once, blew the face off of a rabbit, and desired to have nothing to do with them after that, at the disgust of my father......he thought me not man enough so I was an embarrassment to him and his friends. However my younger brother made it up for both of us.......and my father could care less if he did nor not....for I was the "first" born...

However, I can see the need for men/women to have guns for their protection and their families, especially in the times in which we live. And the US Constitution gives ALL the Legal authority to have them for that purpose.

Now as for believer's to carry them, I found no leading of the sort in the Lord's Word in the New Testament to support ME to carry one, and I also think that it should be for all disciples of Christ not to carry a weapon for protection.....He is our Protector from evil, unless He has allowed us to suffer for His Name sake, or to teach us forgiveness if we be robbed, or beaten by man for the sake of it......


Mat_5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Luk 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

The Lord bless you.....
In His Love....
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A word about the "turn the other cheek" argument. The Greek word for "smite" is hrapizo (ῥαπίζω), meaning "slap," and it is translated that way in the ESV and other translations. If a person slaps you, it is really more of an insult than a dangerous assault, even though in most places in America it would be an assault, and the slapper would be arrested.

My point is that I don't have to defend myself if someone simply slaps me. But if they try to punch or kick me, then I'll defend myself. My body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and should be protected.
 
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percho

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This thread is the very reason I believe the kingdom of God and or when Christ comes in the kingdom of his glory is still future for I do not believe there will be guns in the kingdom of God however I also believe it will be shown for there to not be a need for guns, Yet I also believe after the thousand years when the devil is loosed for a season there will be weapons and the battle of Ezek 38 yet God will do the fighting for the people of God.

However in this present world of kingdoms we need the 2nd amendment.

Even if it be the jawbone of an ass.
 
JonC

JonC

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@SavedByGrace ,

I share some of your concerns (while I do own guns, I do not carry a gun nor do I own a gun for self defense).

But I do have a question.

Do you support the UK having a military?
 
JonC

JonC

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JesusFan said:
Should we have fought against Hitler, or just roll over and allow nazi germany to make concentration camps all over Europe?
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@SavedByGrace has his view, but that does not mean he believes Hitler should not have been stopped. God uses men (even man's disobedience) for His purposes. Ultimately God is in control.

Look at the American Revolution, for example. There is no biblical justification for Americans to have fought for independence. But the mantle of Christianity passed from the UK to the US (for awhile, anyway).
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
@SavedByGrace has his view, but that does not mean he believes Hitler should not have been stopped. God uses men (even man's disobedience) for His purposes. Ultimately God is in control.

Look at the American Revolution, for example. There is no biblical justification for Americans to have fought for independence. But the mantle of Christianity passed from the UK to the US (for awhile, anyway).
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there was every reason to fight, as all have the right to have self determination and those pesky rights granted to us by our Creator!
 
JonC

JonC

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Moderator
JesusFan said:
there was every reason to fight, as all have the right to have self determination and those pesky rights granted to us by our Creator!
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We had plenty of reasons to fight against the UK, but no biblical reasons.

That said, post the passages you believe justified the Revolutionary War.

Let's look at it together.
 
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