The Intellectual Problem of Evil Syllogism

[Van]

Yet another co-opting a word to push a destructive heresy. Calvinists believe you were saved (their doctrine of predestination) or damned (their doctrine of reprobation) from all eternity for all eternity, and there is nothing you can do about it for yourself or for your loved ones. They should call it their doctrine of futility.

I see where several posts addressing my behavior, rather than the thread topic,which is deflection, not rebuttal.

The doctrine of reprobation is a bogus as a three dollar bill.

 

[Reformed]

Do you think the “refusal to respond directly” is the result of one or both of the others? (Intellectual prow, ignorance)

Yes. It is easier to diagnose ignorance of a subject based on a poster's body of work. Intellectual prowess? I really do not want to go there publicly. It comes across as calling someone stupid and that never looks good.

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[37818]

Just remember, evil is impossible without good. So the problem evil is really a problem of good which can be taken away.

 

[37818]

The doctrine of reprobation is a bogus as a three dollar bill.

What is the post number where you explained this. Thanks.

 

[Van]

What is the post number where you explained this. Thanks.

The bogus doctrine of reprobation claims some people were predestined to damnation before creation. However, no one was predestined to salvation or damnation before creation. God sets before us the choice of life or death and begs us to choose life. The bogus doctrine of reprobation is based on misunderstanding Ephesians 1:4, where God chose us in Him corporately as the target group of His redemption plan. 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes our "individual" election before creation because we lived not as a (chosen) people before we were individually chosen, before we obtained mercy.

 

[Van]

Van,
You are not dumb, so you just have to know your repeating does nothing to support your thinking.
Rather, take which you have agreed of the Scriptures others have offered you in refutation, and show what the difference between that Scripture compared to the Calvinist view.
For example: in icon’s post he offered both definition and various supporting Scriptures for his conclusions.
If you agree those are Scriptures but dispute the support, then use those Scriptures and show how they were interpreted wrongly.

Rather than addressing posters, why not address the topic?
The doctrine of reprobation is as bogus as a three dollar bill. Saying this again is like pushing the reset button after you post off topic posts like the one above.

 

[37818]

The bogus doctrine of reprobation claims some people were predestined to damnation before creation. However, no one was predestined to salvation or damnation before creation. God sets before us the choice of life or death and begs us to choose life. The bogus doctrine of reprobation is based on misunderstanding Ephesians 1:4, where God chose us in Him corporately as the target group of His redemption plan. 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes our "individual" election before creation because we lived not as a (chosen) people before we were individually chosen, before we obtained mercy.

Thank you.

 

[agedman]

Just remember, evil is impossible without good. So the problem evil is really a problem of good which can be taken away.

I’m not certain I agree.

Why cannot evil be evil and not obliged to good?

Is the absence of evil then good, or the absence of good evil?

Prior to anything created, was evil and good present, or was God present without regard to assignment?

 

[agedman]

Rather than addressing posters, why not address the topic?
The doctrine of reprobation is as bogus as a three dollar bill. Saying this again is like pushing the reset button after you post off topic posts like the one above.

Do you really address the topic?

 

[37818]

Why cannot evil be evil and not obliged to good?

It is impossible for evil to otherwise to exist. Name one evil which exists that no way affects any good. Not possible.

 

[Iconoclast]

Brother,

My question is whether your interlocutor lacks the intellectual ability to respond to your argument, is ignorant of the subject, or he simply refuses to deal with the argument. In my experience on this board I have found it is not a lack of intellectual prowess but rather ignorance of the subject or a refusal to respond directly.

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Yes I agree. I like to think I attempt to be patient with persons who are seriously questioning the teaching.
Some are not questioning but attacking.
Some do it by offering false ideas, and false teaching flat out.
Some oppose at any cost on purpose.
Others attempt to speak for you or suggest what they think you might mean, even if you have never came close to what you have ever posted.

 

[Van]

Do you really address the topic?

Note how they repeat non stop their deflections, using against the man arguments repeatedly, trying to change the subject.

Reset

The bogus doctrine of reprobation claims some people were predestined to damnation before creation. However, no one was predestined to salvation or damnation before creation. God sets before us the choice of life or death and begs us to choose life. The bogus doctrine of reprobation is based on misunderstanding Ephesians 1:4, where God chose us in Him corporately as the target group of His redemption plan. 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes our "individual" election before creation because we lived not as a (chosen) people before we were individually chosen, before we obtained mercy.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I’m not certain I agree. Why cannot evil be evil and not obliged to good? Is the absence of evil then good, or the absence of good evil? Prior to anything created, was evil and good present, or was God present without regard to assignment?

Do you hold that God is eternal, without beginning or end? If so, how do you achieve the total absence of good, unless God is not good? Are you trying to argue evil is eternal with God?

 

[Iconoclast]

Brother,

My question is whether your interlocutor lacks the intellectual ability to respond to your argument, is ignorant of the subject, or he simply refuses to deal with the argument. In my experience on this board I have found it is not a lack of intellectual prowess but rather ignorance of the subject or a refusal to respond directly.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Yes I agree. I like to think I attempt to be patient with persons who are seriously questioning the teaching.
Some are not questioning but attacking.
Some do it by offering false ideas, and false teaching flat out.
Others are more devious. They engage in dialogue, but they distort your words on purpose to attempt to discredit you and by extension what you teach.

 

[agedman]

It is impossible for evil to otherwise to exist. Name one evil which exists that no way affects any good. Not possible.

Don't need to name anything. That is not the question.

The question resolves to the very existence of God.

If evil must exist along with good, then God and evil existed together eternally.

But that is not Scriptural.

God is good.

God is eternal.

Evil is not eternal.

Therefore, good may exist without the presence of evil irregardless of some human philosophy.

 

[agedman]

Do you hold that God is eternal, without beginning or end? If so, how do you achieve the total absence of good, unless God is not good? Are you trying to argue evil is eternal with God?

I do not hold to the total absence of good. I hold to the total absence of evil.

I hold that evil does not have to be present for good, and that evil is not dependent upon good to exist.

Humankind might consider them opposites, however, that is human rational in which has no foundational support.

God is good
God is eternal.
Good is eternal.


Evil is not eternal not needing to be linked with good.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I do not hold to the total absence of good. I hold to the total absence of evil.

I hold that evil does not have to be present for good, and that evil is not dependent upon good to exist.

Humankind might consider them opposites, however, that is human rational in which has no foundational support.

God is good
God is eternal.
Good is eternal.

Evil is not eternal not needing to be linked with good.

You provided several assertions in answer to the questions, yet no follow through that argues the main point.

If God is good and eternal, then how can evil ever be present and good not be? Do you then reject the omnipresence of God?

You have not explained how evil can be independent of good. On what basis?

And how will you argue that evil cannot be eternal if it has no link to good?

Is there really such a thing as evil if there is no good? On what basis?

Why do you imagine others are treating the two as opposites but not you? You are arguing the two are opposite and independent!

 

[agedman]

You provided several assertions in answer to the questions, yet no follow through that argues the main point.

If God is good and eternal, then how can evil ever be present and good not be? Do you then reject the omnipresence of God?

Two places that may help conceptualize what I mean concerning evil with good not being present.
When Adam was created was he good or evil?
When Adam choose to turn from God did he remain good or evil?

Some perhaps would state that Adam became only partially evil, but then what part remained in the garden?

As eternity begins, the Scriptures state God prepared a place called the Lake of Fire. The unbelieving are cast into that place along with the fallen angels and the arch enemy of God. Is God in their midst? Does evil not exist without the presence of God?

It is seen in the Laodicean assembly. God is standing outside knocking, and the assembly has shut Him off. Evil is present without God.

This seems that God is not omnipresent. but to accept that evil does not fully envelope the one in rebellion, that evil dwells separate from God, that evil can even separate an assembly from God are basic Scripture presentations.

You have not explained how evil can be independent of good. On what basis?

Just did.

And how will you argue that evil cannot be eternal if it has no link to good?

The father of all lies and liars was created as an angel of God. Then evil was found in him that lead to rebellion causing the whole of creation to be impacted.

The father of all liars and lies was not eternal.

Is there really such a thing as evil if there is no good? On what basis?

Why not? The Scriptures teach that the Lord Jesus made all things, that nothing exists that He didn't make, and that He sustains. However, if one considers that evil is not a thing that can be touched and handled, but an attitude that resolves to sin (inordinate desire when it seizes results in sin) then such has no good. Good is not a mixture not coexistent with good. The fly ruins the whole ointment making it rancid.

Why do you imagine others are treating the two as opposites but not you? You are arguing the two are opposite and independent!

Because the two are independent. One does not rely upon the other, yet one ruins the other. Job ask, "Who can bring out clean from unclean?"

If they were not independent, there would be no ability by God to separate.
This is fundamental to the crucifixion. Christ took upon Himself the sins of all, yet He was unstained by Sin.

Every believer has this attribute to strive and achieve to remain unspotted by the world.

Eternity shows the independent keeping place prepared for evil, separate from the clean.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Two places that may help conceptualize what I mean concerning evil with good not being present.
When Adam was created was he good or evil?
When Adam choose to turn from God did he remain good or evil?

Some perhaps would state that Adam became only partially evil, but then what part remained in the garden?

As eternity begins, the Scriptures state God prepared a place called the Lake of Fire. The unbelieving are cast into that place along with the fallen angels and the arch enemy of God. Is God in their midst? Does evil not exist without the presence of God?

It is seen in the Laodicean assembly. God is standing outside knocking, and the assembly has shut Him off. Evil is present without God.

This seems that God is not omnipresent. but to accept that evil does not fully envelope the one in rebellion, that evil dwells separate from God, that evil can even separate an assembly from God are basic Scripture presentations.




Just did.



The father of all lies and liars was created as an angel of God. Then evil was found in him that lead to rebellion causing the whole of creation to be impacted.

The father of all liars and lies was not eternal.



Why not? The Scriptures teach that the Lord Jesus made all things, that nothing exists that He didn't make, and that He sustains. However, if one considers that evil is not a thing that can be touched and handled, but an attitude that resolves to sin (inordinate desire when it seizes results in sin) then such has no good. Good is not a mixture not coexistent with good. The fly ruins the whole ointment making it rancid.



Because the two are independent. One does not rely upon the other, yet one ruins the other. Job ask, "Who can bring out clean from unclean?"

If they were not independent, there would be no ability by God to separate.
This is fundamental to the crucifixion. Christ took upon Himself the sins of all, yet He was unstained by Sin.

Every believer has this attribute to strive and achieve to remain unspotted by the world.

Eternity shows the independent keeping place prepared for evil, separate from the clean.

I think I see where you are coming from. You seem to be confusing existence with affinity or fellowship, but of course these are not at all the same, thank God.

But you being a Calvinist, the question may be better asked thus: How can evil be independent of an all-sovereign God?

 

[agedman]

I think I see where you are coming from. You seem to be confusing existence with affinity or fellowship, but of course these are not at all the same, thank God.

But you being a Calvinist, the question may be better asked thus: How can evil be independent of an all-sovereign God?

Humankind was given dominion (sovereignty) over every creature, yet that creature may dominate humankind.

As Sovereign, God has ultimate control, yet as God He has given certain dominion over various aspects of the creation to act independently. Did not Adam and Eve act as independent free moral agents while in the Eden? By one man sin entered the world, as the consequence, of sin entering Eden, all have sinned.

Independent does not mean without accountability.

Consequences are ignored by evil. Yet, evil results in consequences.

Unless two agree they cannot walk together, therefore though both may walk, evil and good are not linked, the consequences are not linked, nor is their existence linked.