The Irrefutable Sabbath Facts

[Eliyahu]

The Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith state that the Sabbath is the same Saturday Sabbath kept from Eden all the way through the Gospels - and then they claim to bend/edit it to point to "Sunday" after the cross.

I have repeatedly affirmed their initial recognition of Bible doctrine and to repeatedly reject their attempts to edit the Law of God to apply the full force of the 4th commandment to their man-made tradition of Sunday.

Because in Mark 7 - God condemns the idea of bending or editing the Commandments of God just to serve man-made tradition. Which is the very mistake they make.

in Christ,

Bob

God never changed His Law.
The change of Sabbath from 7th day to 1st day was a man made doctrine and tradition condemned by Jesus (Mt15:9)

 

[BobRyan]

God never changed His Law.
The change of Sabbath from 7th day to 1st day was a man made doctrine and tradition condemned by Jesus (Mt15:9)

Agreed.

The two ways to attack God's law are
1. Throw it under a bus and declare it to be void.
2. Bend it to suite man-made traditions.

The reason for men choosing solution - 2 is that we don't have to fear all the Bible texts that say that the Law of God still remains - or that Sabbath is to be celebrated in the New Heavens and New Earth such as we find in Isaiah 66:23. And you also get to apply the force of God's own Authority - to your own man-made traditions.

The reason for men choosing solution - 1 is that we can ignore sin, and yet we can uphold those Bible texts that claim that God's law cannot be edited or bent - such as we find in Mark 7.

But I notice two things.
A. Solution 1 above is completely opposed to Solution 2. Just as you find with D.L. Moody who tends toward solution 2 above and condemns those who pick solution 1.
B. Those who promote solution 1 will join with those who promote solution 2 - when it comes to warring against the 4th commandment in unchanged/unbent form.



in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

The sources I quote - even Baptist ones - claim they believe that the Sabbath commandment is enforce for all mankind from Eden to today.

You say that no matter their own statements about their own beliefs - they are wrong to claim that they believe what they claim they believe.

I have shown you through:
1. Their own writings, and
2. The dictionary,
That the definition they used for "sabbath" was "Christian Sabbath" or Sunday, the first day of the week. Yet you persist in your lies and misrepresentation of these men that they keep the Sabbath. They don't or didn't!!!!
They know more keep the Sabbath than I do.
They urged people to be faithful to attend their respective churches on Sundays, as I do. And I speak out against the Sabbath, but have the same beliefs. Why don't you reconcile that for me Bob??

Now you want to claim that I don't keep the Sabbath - because you believe that no one can obey God - no one can "Keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" in your mind is - in fact a direct contradiction of 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" - a direct contradiction of Rev 14:12 regarding the saints - a direct contradiction of 1John 5:2-4 regarding the saints who love God and love the children of God.

How is that deny-all solution to this Bible doctrine helping your case?

in Christ,

Bob

I have shown you how you don't keep the Sabbath. Why not answer my specific questions.
1. Do you confine your travels on the Sabbath day to a Sabbath Day journey (5/8 mile) and never go over that limit?
2. Do you wear all of the same type of clothing from head to foot--all linen or all wool or all cotton? No mix is permitted.

Do you keep all his commandments?
No you don't; yet in your post you hypocritically pretend that you do.

Here is what the Bible says about that:
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

According to your own words, you have:
1. Deceived yourself.
2. The truth is not in you.
3. You have made Christ a liar.
4. His word is not in you.

That is where you stand.

 

[BobRyan]

I have shown you through:
1. Their own writings, and
2. The dictionary,
That the definition they used for "sabbath" was "Christian Sabbath" or Sunday, the first day of the week. Yet you persist in your lies <obligatory unchristian rant deleted here>

I have shown you through their own writing that they claim that the SAME day of the week (Saturday) was kept from Creation to the resurrection of Christ.

THEN they claim to have the day for the 4th commandment bent/edited/changed to point to Sunday the first day of the week from the resurrection onward. NEVER do they claim that SUNDAY was the day kept as the day of the 4th commandment from Eden to the cross.

This obvious fact has been pointed out to you dozens and dozens of times by me.

Your endless rant in response to this irrefutable fact is not the compelling form of debate that you seem to imagine.

You are free to keep up your misrepresentations all you wish.

But my interest in them is limited.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Eliyahu]

A Refutation to The Irrefutable Sabbath Facts

​

1. The Sabbath Law does not RESTRICT the Sabbath to the seventh day "of the week"

Wrong!
Sabbath Concept started from the fact that God rested on the Seventh Day of the first day of the Creation Week.( Genesis 2:1-2)
God specified the seventh day of the week to be sanctified ( Exodus 20:10)



2. The Sabbath law CANNOT be restricted to the Seventh day "of the week" or else God would be condemned as violating it, as he applies it to FIXED DATES and other days of the week. He applies it to other periods than 24 hours - Lev. 23-25.

Wrong!
Lev 23 specifies 7 Feasts of the LORD on specific days.

For the Born-Again Believers everyday of the week, 7 days a week throughout the life are the Sabbaths in Christ Jesus.
However, as for the gathering and for celebration, unless you can gather together and celebrate the Sabbath every day of the week, you must follow the choice of the day by God.
Do you gather together at the church every day of the week without working throughout your life?


3. Hence, the proper interpretation of the Sabbath Law must be BROAD enough to incorporate all APPLICATIONS by God Himself. This denies, repudiates any RESTRICTION of the Sabbath Law to the seventh day "of the week.


Wrong!
That may be your law!
God specified a day of the week which is the seventh day of the week. That’s God’s style.

4. However, application to the seventh day "of the week" does not violate the Sabbath Law as it is BROAD enough to INCLUDE that application.

Wrong!
You are sounding like a Law-Giver, judging or modifying the Law.
if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?(James 4:11-12)


5. The "week" is a by product of the seven Creation days and our division into weeks must be derived from these seven days at the beginning BECAUSE neither the lunar or solar year is divisble by seven and so the only explanation for divisions into "weeks" is the creation seven days.

Yes!
The Concept of a Week is based on the Sabbath! Because one week is from one Sabbath to another Sabbath, resulting in the same word for Week and Sabbath

6. There had to be a practical weekly application of the Sabbath that was consistent prior to the cross and all evidence points to the fact that at least among the Jews the weekly sabbath was their seventh day "of the week" or Saturday.

Yes!

Disciples and the Women from Galilee took the rest according to the Commandments even after the Crucifixion ( Luke 23:56)

 

[Eliyahu]

7. God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week" (Psa. 118:24/Acts 4:10-11/Heb. 4:9-10; Rev. 1:10; Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; John 20)


Wrong! Extremely Wrong!
Many True Christian Believers are trapped in this fallacy.

Pslam 118:24 : This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

This never tells us that Sunday became the day of worship! How can people invent a new theology to pervert the Words of God?

Acts 4:10-11Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

These verses tell us that Jesus Christ who was rejected by Jews became the Corner Stone. They never tell us the Day of Worship has been changed from Sabbath to Sunday!
Please do not twist or pervert the Words of God!

Heb 4:9-10 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
​

Where is the statement that the Day of Worship has changed from Seventh day to the First Day?


Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Lord’s Day means the Sabbath, the Seventh day (Saturday) because:

Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath ( Mark 2:28)
Sabbath was called Sabbath of LORD ( Ex 20:10, 31:13, Lev 19:3, 19:30, 23:3, 23:38, 26:2 Isaiah 56:4 Ezekiel 20:12, 20)
This means that Sabbath was called Sabbath of Jehovah.
Jehovah is translated as Lord in New Testament. ( Do you need the evidences? Check OT quoted in NT!)


Acts 2:1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place


Pentecost could be any day of the week! Leviticus 23:15 tells us about the Calculation of Omer, and it was counted from the Passover Sabbath, not the Regular Weekly Sabbath, because if it is counted from after the Weekly Sabbath, sometimes there could be a gap of 5 days between the High Sabbath(Passover Sabbath and the Regular Sabbath). Sadducees calculated in the way that the Pentecost fall under Sunday all the time, but the Biblical Truth tells us that Pentecost could be any day of the week! Please do not misunderstand this and pervert the mostly emphasized Sabbath commandment based on the false interpretation.

Acts 20:7

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Jewish Day starts from the evening ( after Sunset because God created the universe from the night time). Therefore the evening of the first day of the week is the evening of Saturday according to the Gregorian Calendar.
Therefore it was the evening of Saturday, not the Sunday when Paul was preaching.
Next day which was Sunday, Paul and his party departed for journey ( Acts 20:11)

Sunday was a day of Journey!, not the day of Worship!

Remember this. The Assembly in Troas was having a Habdala which means the Believers Feast like a Potluck and the Early Church used to have the BreadBreaking after the Potluck and they had the Lord’s Supper many times a week ( Acts 2:46)

But what this confirms is that Early Church travelled on Sundays!
Your own evidence rejects your own claim!

 

[Eliyahu]

1 Cor 16:1-2
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

First, Paul was talking about the Special Donation for Jerusalem, not the regular donation.

Secondly, Paul is asking the Believers to Save that donation AT HOME, not at the Church~!

Read the Greek:


16:2 κατὰ μίαν σαββάτων ἕκαστος ὑμῶν παρ᾽ ἑαυτῷ τιθέτω θησαυρίζων ὅ τι ἂν εὐοδῶται ἵνα μὴ ὅταν ἔλθω τότε λογίαι γίνωνται

Para eauto means < at himself> or < at his own>
From the context, it means that one should save the money by himself or herself, which means saving money at HOME!.

John Nelson Darby translated properly as follows:

On [the] first of [the] week let each of you put by at home, laying up [in] whatever [degree] he may have prospered, that there may be no collections when I come.


In order to save money at HOME on the first day of the week, you must stay at HOME, not come to the church!

This verse teaches you that you are WRONG! And rejects your own Claim!


John 20 :

The whole chapter reports that Jesus was resurrected and taught the disciples and ate with them. Jesus never taught them the Sabbath was changed to Sunday!

This whole chapter also disprove the claim that Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday!

Believers still kept the commandment of Sabbath even after the Death of the Lord ( Luke 23:56). Then how did they suddenly changed their faith silently?

Did they gather together on Sundays commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord?


READ This !

1 Cor 11: 26

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
​

Did Early church commemorate the Death of Jesus Christ or His Resurrection?

Early Church gathered to remember the Death of Jesus shedding the Blood at the Cross, on every Sabbath Day!

Read Acts 13:14, 13:42( Why didn’t Paul invite any to his meeting on Sundays?), 13:44, 16:13 ( Paul’s custom was to have prayer meeting on Sabbaths, not on Sundays!) , 17:2, 18:4.

Why there is no Sunday meeting shown on New Testament? Show me any!


8. The first day "of the week" Christian Sabbath is the "Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10) and commemorates a greater and better work than the original but now sin cursed creation - the work of redemption and a new sinless heaven and earth yet to come. This is precisely why in all the Sabbath days that charaterize the Messianic Feasts in Leviticus 23 such days fall on the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd, 50th day (after 7 regular sabbaths or 49 days) 50th year (after 7 regular Sabbath years or 49 years).

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

Rev 1:10 – already refuted read the above. Lord’s Day was Sabbath, the seventh day of the Week.
Redemption was done on Passover Day, not on Sunday!
Therefore Paul teaches the Corinthians

< Therefore let us keep the feast( Passover), not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. >

We celebrate the Passover every week by having Lord’s Supper!

We cannot say that the Early Church gathered to celebrate the resurrection on Sundays, but the Truth is that they gathered on Saturday to celebrated the Death of Jesus on each Sabbath, the Lord’s Day.

Polycarp( Apostle John’s Disciple) testifies that they gathered on Saturdays


This is precisely why in all the Sabbath days that charaterize the Messianic Feasts in Leviticus 23 such days fall on the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd, 50th day (after 7 regular sabbaths or 49 days) 50th year (after 7 regular Sabbath years or 49 years).


Wrong!

That is the Sadducees interpretation of Leviticus 23:15.

Pentecost can be any day of the week, as I already explained in the article No 7.

Sadducees perverted the Bible. Pentecost is counted from the Passover Sabbath ( High Sabbath), not the regular Sabbath( Weekly Sabbath)

 

[Eliyahu]

10. It is the common day of worship from the first century until Constantine and Constantine did not invent it but simply followed the common practice and made it a STATE holiday as he made Catholicism a STATE church.

Wrong!
Inside the Bible, the day of worship was never changed.
On Every Sabbath, the ShewBread was renewed and laid on the Table ( Lev 24:8)
On Every Sabbath Lamb without blemish was sacrificed ( Numbers 28:9-10)
In that way, OT people worshipped God with the shadow of Jesus Christ Sacrifice.
Now in NT period, people remembered the Death of Jesus Christ on every Sabbath.

Before Constantine, only a few apostate churches may have gathered on Sundays in Rome and Alexandria,
Constantine made the Holy Day of Sun god to be the imperial Holy Day for all the people and officers on March 7, 321.
Then the Pope Sylvester( 314-335) endorsed Constantine after that.
Laodicean Council declared the Anathema to the Sabbathkeepers in 363 AD.
This means that there were many Sabbathkeepers even by that time. Otherwise, the Council of Laodicea didn’t have to declare the Anathema to the Sabbathkeepers.

The persecution of the Sabbathkeepers continued even until 6 th Century.
There were many Sabbathkeepers among the Waldensians.
Today, the Sabbathkeepers are many groups such as Messianic Jews, Church of God, SDA, Seventh day Baptists, etc

 

[Eliyahu]

7. God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week" (Psa. 118:24/Acts 4:10-11/Heb. 4:9-10; Rev. 1:10; Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; John 20)

A correction must be made to my post No 245.


A Refutation to The Irrefutable Sabbath Facts
1. The Sabbath Law does not RESTRICT the Sabbath to the seventh day "of the week"

Wrong!
Sabbath Concept started from the fact that God rested on the Seventh Day of the Creation Week.( Genesis 2:1-2)
God specified the seventh day of the week to be sanctified ( Exodus 20:10)


( God rested on the Seventh Day of the First Day of the Creation Week was wrong and corrected to the Seventh Day of the Creation Week)

 

[The Biblicist]

I have shown you through their own writing that they claim that the SAME day of the week (Saturday) was kept from Creation to the resurrection of Christ.

Not so! You are being intentionally dishonest with their statement of faith. It reads:

7.As it is a law of nature, applicable to all, that a proportion of time, that a portion of time determined by God, should be allocated for the worship of God, so, by His Word, He has particularly appointed one day in seven to be kept as a holy Sabbath to Himself.� The commandment to this effect is positive, moral, and of perpetual� application. It is binding upon all men in all ages.� From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ the Sabbath was the last day of the week, but when Christ's resurrection took place it was changed to the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's day.� It is to be continued to the world's end as the Christian Sabbath, the observance of the seventh day being abolished.


Their interpretation of the Sabbath Law is spelled out so any fool can plainly see they did not believe the "seventh day of the week" was the eternal application of the Sabbath law. Note their careful explanation (who cares about your reinterpretation, we are not discussing your interpretation of the sabbath but theirs), "one day in seven" NOT "the seventh day of the week." Note again "the last day of the week" NOT "the seventh day of the week." They are clear in saying that a "porportion of time determined by God" and God determined it to be one day between creation and Christ and God determined it to be another day between Christ and His return. Any fool can see this is their clear understanding of the Sabbath Law and yet you INTENTIONALLY pervert, twist and malign their language. They make it clear the "day" before Christ was changed by God's determination.

Also, it has been pointed out to you dozens of times that the Sabbath Law is MORE INCLUSIVE than any restriction to any particular portion of time but inclusive of several portions of time (24 hour days, longer periods called "day" as in month, year and longer portions of sevens than merely weekly days. You cannot RESTRICT the Sabbath Law to something LESS than what God actually APPLIES it to Himself and that is what SDA does. You are simply a dishonest human being and you demonstrate it over and over and over again by perverting the words of those Baptists who wrote that confession and other Baptists.

 

[Yeshua1]

Agreed.

The two ways to attack God's law are
1. Throw it under a bus and declare it to be void.
2. Bend it to suite man-made traditions.

The reason for men choosing solution - 2 is that we don't have to fear all the Bible texts that say that the Law of God still remains - or that Sabbath is to be celebrated in the New Heavens and New Earth such as we find in Isaiah 66:23. And you also get to apply the force of God's own Authority - to your own man-made traditions.

The reason for men choosing solution - 1 is that we can ignore sin, and yet we can uphold those Bible texts that claim that God's law cannot be edited or bent - such as we find in Mark 7.

But I notice two things.
A. Solution 1 above is completely opposed to Solution 2. Just as you find with D.L. Moody who tends toward solution 2 above and condemns those who pick solution 1.
B. Those who promote solution 1 will join with those who promote solution 2 - when it comes to warring against the 4th commandment in unchanged/unbent form.



in Christ,

Bob

You do realise that by trying to keep the Sabbath for the church, that you are attacking the Gospel of Grace, right?

 

[The Biblicist]

A Refutation to The Irrefutable Sabbath Facts

​

1. The Sabbath Law does not RESTRICT the Sabbath to the seventh day "of the week"

Wrong!
Sabbath Concept started from the fact that God rested on the Seventh Day of the first day of the Creation Week.( Genesis 2:1-2)
God specified the seventh day of the week to be sanctified ( Exodus 20:10)

Your doctrine is built upon inference rather than thus saith the Lord. For example WHERE in Genesis 1-2 does it say anything about a creation "week"? Answer? NOWHERE! Your position is derived by INFERENCES not Scripture. So you and Bob show some HONESTY and just admit your doctrine of the creation "week" is based upon INFERENCE because the term "week" is simply not stated.

2. The Sabbath law CANNOT be restricted to the Seventh day "of the week" or else God would be condemned as violating it, as he applies it to FIXED DATES and other days of the week. He applies it to other periods than 24 hours - Lev. 23-25.

Wrong!
Lev 23 specifies 7 Feasts of the LORD on specific days.

For the Born-Again Believers everyday of the week, 7 days a week throughout the life are the Sabbaths in Christ Jesus.

Don't you even read what your partner in doctrinal crime writes????? Look at the London Confession of 1689 and the 1733 New Hampshire Baptist Confession - neither teaches that "everyday of the week" is the sabbath. Either you are ignorant of this fact (which do not think since Bob has been incessently repeating it and you have been agreeing with him) or you are intentionally dishonest with the facts in order to avoid this irrefutable objection to your Sabbath nonsense!

Also, neither does Leviticus 23 teach that every day in the feasts was a sabbath of rest either, as these feasts are types of the NEW COVENANT under Christ once ratified by His blood on the cross. So God's application of Sabbath Law repudiates your restriction of sabbath law not merely to the seventh day of the week but repudiates it restriction to merely 24 hour day periods as it is applied to the seventh year, 50th year, and most likely to the seventh month in Leviticus 23-25.

You fella's are simply abusing God's Word, and showing complete lack of any honest objectivity because your conscience is SEARED by this false doctrine and the demons behind it - 1 Tim. 4:1-2

 

[Yeshua1]

Your doctrine is built upon inference rather than thus saith the Lord. For example WHERE in Genesis 1-2 does it say anything about a creation "week"? Answer? NOWHERE! Your position is derived by INFERENCES not Scripture. So you and Bob show some HONESTY and just admit your doctrine of the creation "week" is based upon INFERENCE because the term "week" is simply not stated.



Don't you even read what your partner in doctrinal crime writes????? Look at the London Confession of 1689 and the 1733 New Hampshire Baptist Confession - neither teaches that "everyday of the week" is the sabbath. Either you are ignorant of this fact (which do not think since Bob has been incessently repeating it and you have been agreeing with him) or you are intentionally dishonest with the facts in order to avoid this irrefutable objection to your Sabbath nonsense!

Also, neither does Leviticus 23 teach that every day in the feasts was a sabbath of rest either, as these feasts are types of the NEW COVENANT under Christ once ratified by His blood on the cross. So God's application of Sabbath Law repudiates your restriction of sabbath law not merely to the seventh day of the week but repudiates it restriction to merely 24 hour day periods as it is applied to the seventh year, 50th year, and most likely to the seventh month in Leviticus 23-25.

You fella's are simply abusing God's Word, and showing complete lack of any honest objectivity because your conscience is SEARED by this false doctrine and the demons behind it - 1 Tim. 4:1-2

thing os that BOB keeps using the reformed baptists Confessions and DL Moody as"evidence" of Baptists holding to Sabbath of the Lews, and yet Moody and the rest were saying Sabbath as being honored by church on sunday, and theConfessions NOT inspired anyways!

 

[The Biblicist]

thing os that BOB keeps using the reformed baptists Confessions and DL Moody as"evidence" of Baptists holding to Sabbath of the Lews, and yet Moody and the rest were saying Sabbath as being honored by church on sunday, and theConfessions NOT inspired anyways!

Neither support what he is saying and neither are inspired!

The problem is that both SDAizers are being totaly dishonest, without an objective bone in their body and simply perverting the words of the Baptist confessions, Moody and Spurgeon. Dishonesty is the correct term to describe SDAizers.

 

[BobRyan]

thing os that BOB keeps using the reformed baptists Confessions and DL Moody as"evidence" of Baptists holding to Sabbath of the Lews, and yet Moody and the rest were saying Sabbath as being honored by church on sunday, and theConfessions NOT inspired anyways!

Sadly "the truth" is that all of those sources affirmed the SEVENTH day Sabbath from Eden to the cross. AND THEN they try to BEND the 4th commandment to point it to Sunday - so they can continue to apply the "force of the Law of God" to their man-made tradition of Sunday observance.

This is just stating the obvious.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[The Biblicist]

Sadly "the truth" is that all of those sources affirmed the SEVENTH day Sabbath from Eden to the cross. AND THEN they try to BEND the 4th commandment to point it to Sunday - so they can continue to apply the "force of the Law of God" to their man-made tradition of Sunday observance.

This is just stating the obvious.

in Christ,

Bob

What is sad is that you are simply lying! You are distorting their words, that is what is sad and you are doing it intentionally. There is no excuse for what you are doing - none! They contextuallly define exactly what they are saying and believe and you reject it, and twist it, and pervert it, and abuse it.

 

[BobRyan]

Sadly "the truth" is that all of those sources affirmed the SEVENTH day Sabbath from Eden to the cross. AND THEN they try to BEND the 4th commandment to point it to Sunday - so they can continue to apply the "force of the Law of God" to their man-made tradition of Sunday observance.

This is just stating the obvious.

What is sad is that you are simply lying!

Your vitriol noted.

Your facts - absent. (as usual)

They contextuallly define exactly what they are saying .

Indeed they do - which is why you "quote nothing" from them and "have nothing" that refutes the obvious statement I have made. (as usual).

In fact you do not even bother to step up to the level of actually naming a fact in my post which you would dare point to as incorrect because you know full well I can substantiate each part of it.

So you resort to an all-vitriol -- all-acryimony --- all diatribe post.

Was this supposed to be surprising to someone here?

When your argument fails - your ad hominem assails. (as usual)

Why not state an actual fact and show it to be true - if you find even the tiny sliver of my statement to not be supported by the facts?

Why settle for a vacuous post instead?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Sadly "the truth" is that all of those sources affirmed the SEVENTH day Sabbath from Eden to the cross. AND THEN they try to BEND the 4th commandment to point it to Sunday - so they can continue to apply the "force of the Law of God" to their man-made tradition of Sunday observance.
Bob

Your posts are not honest, and in the quoting of others, such as Moody, they never have been.
Here is one quotation from Moody's sermon on the Sabbath:

When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday, and I remember how we boys used to shout when it was over. It was the worst day in the week to us. I believe it can be made the brightest day in the week. Every child ought to be reared so that he shall be able to say that he would rather have the other six days weeded out of his memory than the Sabbath of his childhood.

But that is not how you define the Sabbath, nor is it the Sabbath of the Jews as described in the Bible. Yet you continue to slander this man by telling us he keeps the Sabbath!
You choose:
Either he keeps the Sabbath or you don't. You can't have it both ways. Both positions are opposed one to another.

So opposed are they that Moody went out of his way to clarify himself that after his sermon was published here is what was added:

PUBLISHER'S NOTE: The author of this book was not an advocate of the tenets of Seventh Day Adventism.

He wanted his publisher to let the world know that he was as far away from the SDA movement as one could possibly be. You and he have absolutely NOTHING in common. Don't say you do. It is lying, slander, misrepresentation, hypocrisy, etc. You have been warned about it before.

Secondly, You live in Georgia--did you grow up in the public school system? I ask because you seem to think that the Bible doesn't teach absolutes but rather relativity, such as "There are no absolutes;" "Everything is relative;" "What is right for you may not be right for me," etc. That is humanistic teaching and the teaching of our public educational institutions in America.
There is no such thing as "bending" the rules as you continually refer to. You either keep the law or you disobey it. There are no grey areas when it comes to the law of God. Moody did not keep the Sabbath. It is impossible to "bend" the law. One can keep it. One can disobey it, but it is impossible to bend it. You are talking like a Catholic. There is good and there is bad (mortally bad). And then there is the venial sin--not too bad. It is just half way in between. You won't go to hell for that one.
Our God is a holy God. He doesn't accept venial sins, bending the law, etc. It is either obeyed or disobeyed. There is no sitting on the fence, grey area, or "bending it." It can't be done.

Third, as previously pointed out you don't keep the Sabbath, and it would be almost impossible for you to do so. It would for me. I live in "the Great White North." This coming Sunday the high will be 33 F., and the low 17. Snow is also in the forecast. Georgia doesn't often get that weather. We get it regularly, and when winter comes it often goes down to minus 40. In my view, keeping the sabbath "here" would be impossible.

For you however, this is what you would have to do.
1. Disconnect yourself from any and all power sources: electricity, gas, running water, etc.
2. Live in a tent about half a mile or less from your church or meeting place.
3. You are not allowed to gather "sticks" for fuel, etc. on the Sabbath, therefore you take enough propane for your propane stove, enough batteries for your light or kerosene for your lamp, etc., and certainly enough water for your needs of cooking and drinking.
4. There is no running water. You may have to think of bringing your own "port-a-potty" since digging a pit as prescribed in the Bible is probably against the law where you live.

For clothing your best bet is cotton. It is easy to get all cotton socks, underwear, shirts, and even pants. Everything you wear must be on one type of material. The Lord will not allow any kind of mixed cloth to be used. You must wear all one kind of cloth from head to foot, whether it be cotton, wool, linen, etc. It must be the same kind.

You see, you can't go to the power company and ask them to save up twice as much power that you need to use on Friday and then cut the power on Saturday so you can use what they saved for you on Friday. It won't work, and they will think you are crazy. The only solution is a tent close to your church, and live in a very similar way as the Israelites did, as the law prescribed.
But in reality, you don't keep the Sabbath; you don't even try.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Sadly "the truth" is that all of those sources affirmed the SEVENTH day Sabbath from Eden to the cross. AND THEN they try to BEND the 4th commandment to point it to Sunday - so they can continue to apply the "force of the Law of God" to their man-made tradition of Sunday observance.

Your posts are not honest,

Rather than endless accusations - and then no facts at all to support them.

Why not pick an actual statement made above - and then show where your wild accusation has an ounce of data to go with it?

Why not post something compelling that shows that your point is based on something near the realm of fact?

Why just keep repeating empty accusations? Who is going for that sort of discussion??

Yet you continue to slander this man by telling us he keeps the Sabbath!

Hint: Try quoting something in my actual post instead of the wild accusation that I think that Moody (who claimed to keep Saturday by the way) was not promoting Sunday keeping -

Because until you choose to support your accusations with fact - it is just you trying to mis-state my own words above - as if they did NOT claim that Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith and C.,H. Spurgeon were intent on BENDING the 4th commandment after the cross to POINT it to SUNDAY. Each time I say "SUNDAY" -- you come back with a nonsensical "How dare you claim they keep SATURDAY" -- how many times do you intend to make stuff up like that --- while quoting my own post claiming the opposite of what you are trying to claim for me?????

You quote "you" claiming that I said something about Moody NOT BENDING the 4th commandment to point to Sunday -- after the cross - while the post you quote from ME - says the EXACT OPPOSiTE of what you are trying to claim for me.

Who is that supposed to mislead?

Who is going for that??

Anyone??

And if so - please explain the logic for it.

Or how about your wild claims that you think I think that Sunday keeping is a valid form of Bible Commandment- Sabbath keeping. Surely you had to "notice' that I am SEVENTH-day Adventist and not FIRST-day Adventist. The fiction you are promoting is very difficult to follow each time I OBJECT to their bending the 4th commandment to point to Sunday - you wildly respond as if BY OBJECTION - I am ENDORSING their error.

Who is that supposed to fool???? Biblicist??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Quoting Moody --(Not Quoting BobRyan)
When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday, and I remember how we boys used to shout when it was over. It was the worst day in the week to us. I believe it can be made the brightest day in the week. Every child ought to be reared so that he shall be able to say that he would rather have the other six days weeded out of his memory than the Sabbath of his childhood.

But that is not how you define the Sabbath, nor is it the Sabbath of the Jews as described in the Bible.

So that explains why I CONTINUALLY OBJECT to Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith BENDING the Sabbath commandment after the cross as you point out above.

Where is any data at all to support your empty accusation that in my OBJECTING to it - I APPROVE IT?????!!!

Why keep that up as if it works?

Yet you continue to slander this man by telling us he keeps the Sabbath!

You qoute Moody claiming HE is keeping the Sabbath as Sunday -- and you quote me COMPLAINING that Moody is bending the Sabbath and is wrong to do so - in making those statements.

And then you PRETEND that Moody's words are MY WORDS and that I ENDORSE the very error he makes that I COMPLAIN about.

Who falls for that?"

Biblicist?

You??

Who??

GE has expressed strong appreciation when you have done that in the past - but even he has yet to "explain" just how your logic makes sense.

The only part where you seem to have genuine motivation is the nonsensical idea that if someone differs on any point -- they must differ on ALL points. As If I would need to object to the Baptist practice of believer's baptism simply because I object to OSAS. Surely no serious Bible student goes for that -- and I don't think you would argue for it out loud.

So then what "other reason" do you have for quoting Moody as if I am the one speaking - and as if I am the one endorsing his claim that Sunday keeping is the right way to keep the 4th commandment after the cross - when that is the very thing I complain about in his theology?????????


in Christ,

Bob